xianpoxi

Ok, so ever since I first read Bands of Mourning when it first came out, I've been wondering about this. (disclaimer, I am not suggesting that Brandon is going to do something like this in the books at all, just that its a curious idea.) There were 2 discussions in particular that brought the idea to my attention. First, when Melaan patched a bullet wound for Marasi. She took a nibble to create a flesh bandage for Marasi's intestine an skin and tissue, which is a pretty awesome idea in itself. Then Wayne was later telling Marasi to be careful w/ the Kandra spike. He said something along the lines of "Be careful not to poke yourself and turn into a Kandra" Anyway, Wayne is certainly crazy enough to make the attempt and he might intrigue Melaan enough to try it out. The attempt being turning Wayne into a Kandra or 1/2 Kandra. All Melaan really needs is enough food and focus to make the attempt. Wayne needs enough health stored just in case. If he stores up enough health, or gets a identity-free metalmind with the gold misting ability stored in it, he can compound for the health. If the Kandra can recreate a body so precisely, what about creating an entire body that way? So Melaan eats Wayne, slowly, and rebuilds each piece, connecting the nerves along the way. So as long as Melaan is connected she can be a life support system. If the attempt fails entirely, Wayne regenerates with stored health. So Wayne gets a nearly full body prosthesis made from Kandra flesh. The next challenge would be how Wayne would gain any control over the "kandra" nerves of the flesh instead of just the synthesized human ones. Could Melaan leave the prosthetic behind, attached to wayne, and let it function like a normal body? Or, would the kandra flesh, separated from the Kandra revert to dead mistwraith flesh? Would Wayne's ability as bloodmaker, reject and regenerate the full body, or would it incorporate the kandra Prosthesis? Yes, I know I sound like a mad scientist. Thoughts?

I'm convinced the copycat killing is aimed to put pressure on Sadeas' killer to try to draw them out. Its too targeted for anything else. Sure Adolin killing Sadeas showed everyone in the camps how easy it is to get away w/ murder, but the precise positioning of the body to be just like Sadeas is a message. It implies that Sadeas' killer is killing more people. It means if one is discovered, they will take the fall for others. The other message is to Adolin himself. "I'm coming for you" Also, whoever is aiming for Sadeas' killer is amoral. They are plenty willing to murder in order to investigate who killed Sadeas. Sure Adolin was willing to kill Sadeas under those circumstances, but Sadeas has long held that special place in Adolin's heart. This other death has too much business in it. Most likely more than 1 goal is being met. Either, the killer is getting rid of an enemy and trying to pin it on someone else, or it is deliberately targeting Sadeas. I think its both. I think anyone just doing business would not think to specifically make it such a blatent copycat. which is why my money is on Ialai rather than the Ghostbloods. Both suspects are amoral and ruthless enough for the job, but Ialai has the stronger personal motivation for this play. She wants to know who killed her husband, and she will want vengeance in a very Alethi way. She will also suspect Dalinar's household. The 2nd murder will target Dalinar whether he or his family killed Sadeas or not.

I always interpreted the phrase "the bonds that drive Roshar" to be like "the forces of nature".

I'm not sure how much discussion to put into it, but Looking at the map of Roshar, the land is shaped like a storm. It doesn't have a full circle, but recent images of Of Harvey and Irma show a similar shape. Its certainly thematically appropriate.

Do we know that Szeth cannot gain investiture from Stormlight anymore? He doesn't have the honor blade anymore, but does he have a high-spren? That is what Nale's apprentices do. Also, I don't think Nale has his honorblade. Windle said he had a spren. Which could be a mistake, but I don't think it is. Ifso, then it implies he's been the longest surviving Radiant. I think he became a Radiant after the Recreance perhaps? or maybe before and he has simply kept a low profile for a LONG time. I think he would not have too much trouble attracting a High Spren. He's a Fanatic about law. He's rather reminiscent of Javier from Les Miserables. Sure, there has been plenty of time for him to recover his Honor blade from the Shin, but I don't think that is what happened. There is a reason the honorblades were left behind when the oathpact was shattered and Talanelenalat was the only one of the Heralds to be bound and tortured. I believe the Heralds needed to leave the blades behind to be free, but I think that Nale has no honorblade, but a high spren. I think this ties in with a few things Szeth said as well. As Truthless, he seems to fear or expect that He'll be bound and tortured for all that he is 'owed'. This seems reminiscent of Talanelenalat's fate and the fate the other Herald's fled.

I found another pertinent WoB

Wow, I'm a noob at this forum tool, didn't mean to quote Eki at all.. can't quite figure how to delete the quote box.. I found this in WoB The suspicion about Stormlight or the Nahel bond affecting age for me is more from scifi/medical theories about aging. Our cells do not copy well. they deteriorate. So each cell is less perfect than the one before and after so many iterations, the body breaks down. meaning taking alot of injuries throughout life will age you faster. However, Stormlight not only is healing them from anything but being brain-dead, but also regenerating body parts. The comment about how you see yourself is a good point and often said in WoB. So again... If you see yourself as young, wouldn't it keep you young? I do not at all doubt that some people see themselves as eternally in there 20's. The phenomena of a "Mid-life crisis" is all about the disillusionment of this belief. Sadeas describes exactly that perspective in WoR also.

This is actually a questions chain that leads to more interesting questions/speculation. Radiants all appear to experience growth and regrowth thru stormlight. If the regeneration is so perfect, does it affect aging? Does it slow it or stop it? If not, what happens to bonded spren when their Radiant dies? Did Syl say "If you die, I go stupid again" ? I don't remember accurately if I read this or not. Either way there are a few possibilities that come to mind. 1. Yes, when a Radiant dies, the bond is lost and the spren loses its benefits. 2. The bond is passed on to a successor 3. The spren dies, like the recreance. I rather think that 1 and 2 are both likely. Pattern said that spren are too static, that they always change in the same ways over and over. However, there is also a difference in Pattern's description of the recreance and Syl's memories. Pattern says that all the bonded spren were killed save a few like the stormfather. Syl doesn't seem to match Pattern's scenario. However, Syl's vague memories in WoK often imply she was part of a Nahel bond before. Was she not bonded during the recreance? or did she survive it somehow? I think she was unbonded, but I think she has been part of the bond before. I would also think that many spren and radiants would desire to keep the spren sentient after they pass away, and try to arrange for a successor if possible. I'll go hunt WoB for any hints, but wondering if anyone already has info or thoughts on this.

Lightweavers speak no Oaths (which are where they promise to keep the ideals) beyond the first. Instead they speak truths in a progression of self-awareness. I think its clear that the progression is not a parallel or equivocated process between different orders.

I have a hard time not thinking of Rock as looking Polynesian. I know its based off his name, and that He has red hair, but I keep fighting with the images in my head.

I don't think the Recreance was "planned" by the Knights Radiant. From Dalinar's vision of it, the Knights were in shock. Something broke their will. Collectively. I'm guessing it is some overwhelming contradiction in to their Oaths. There has been another idea in the Stormlight archive, which I don't particularly like or wish to agree with, but I feel compelled to mention it as a possible part of this "overwhelming contradiction". The knights are focussed on helping mankind and defending against the desolations and against Odium. If their very existence seemed to bring about, encourage or cause the desolations, then it could be a cause for despair for many. Its a collective guild trip, ala peter parker or Kaladin. Blaming themselves for the evils they were not able to protect against. I don't like this idea, but it could provide the contradiction. We also see some indicators that this is so in Words of Radiance. The interlude chapters among the Parshendi (before storm form) indicate that the reports of a surgebinder (Kaladin) amongst the Alendi indicate a return of the Gods. Also, Nin, in his persecution of surgebinders, (or extreme execution of justice for them) indicates that they will unwittingly bring about greater chaos and destruction. I don't understand how surgebinders, who are bonded to spren which are part of the powers of Honor and Cultivation could be responsible for the actions of the agents of Odium. but it could be constructed somehow. I imagine the Knights saw the Recreance as their best way of preserving life. A near hopeless sacrifice brought on by shock and despair. The contradiction is one possibility. Other possibilities seem to be the death of Honor, and perhaps a discovery of the deception of the Heralds. When did Honor die? Obviously it was before the visions came to Dalinar. It takes a long time for Odium to expand his influence. It seems Cultivation is still around, but broken by Honor's death. She doesn't seem actively engaged. Or maybe her efforts against Odium are the only reason Roshar is not gone already as shown in Dalinar's vision. It could be that Honor died 1000 years ago and the effects are just catching up. Or was it discovery of the Herald's failure? The Heralds seem to burn in hellfire for hundreds or thousands of years in between desolations when they come back to help mankind. Why do they have such a system and pact? If they are used to disappearing, the Radiants likely may not have known that they abandoned their duty for a long time. However, the reason for the Recreanse is unknown amongst people and spren alike. It was too sudden and too complete for any explanations. There had to be an overwhelming event to cause it. Likely some revolation of terrible knowledge. Anything else, and they would have slowly dwindled and some information would have survived.

You are completely wrong there. That means anyone who is offended deserves power. That is way out of line. Plenty of people LIKE being offended way too much. In fact, the like it exactly BECAUSE they can use it as an excuse to claim power and bully others. Truth can hurt. Do you think everyone should tiptoe around someone who is stuck in denial because it hurts them? IT matters if someone does something wrong. Its not wrong just because someone's feelings got hurt. There are actually plenty of REAL life experiences which dehumanize people. I don't even mean abuse from others. For example, Famine. People are so hungry and afraid of death that many will do horrible things to others in order to survive. It is dehumanizing. They become animals instead of people. Describing Renarin as a thing is not inaccurate for the moment he was breaking down. he wasn't acting like a person. Similarly Kaladin at times becomes "The Wretch" this is also a dehumanizing description. Its accurate.

I don't really think having the Honorblades is part of being made Truthless. Its too reckless. It makes me think the secret location of the Honorblades would have leaked out before if that were the case. I think there would have been more Truthless over history. The merchant who trades the Truthless was not especially secretive in calling him Truthless to the Thaylen merchant. The reason the punishment of Truthless doesn't make sense is that anyone who truly deserved it would not keep their oath. They would not live that way. Only someone who was honest AND cowardly would be punished and twisted by it.

I think you are exactly right. I thing the squires will be dependent upon a knight's capacity for forming those bonds with people. More specifically, how that bond is an extension of the Nahel bond. Kaladin is leading the Bridgemen to act Honorably. I think another subtle indicator of squires would be how Rock and a few other bridgemen thought the bridge was lighter when carrying it again on Shallan's expedition. I think they had a little stormlight in them. I would imagine Truthseers not having squires. They are too... asocial methinks.

People's fears are different. Szeth did not fear death as much as he feared the Title "Truthless" Fearlessness does not make one courageous. Neither does it tell when someone is cowardly. Courage is choosing and overcoming fear. Cowardliness is letting the fear choose for you. I am very curious too read the flashbacks about Szeth. I want to know exactly how he became Truthless and exactly what it means in the Shin Culture & Religion. From what I've read so far, it seems like a trick question and a test. IF he has no truth in him, if he was punished for "crying wolf" about a desolation, then he was branded a liar or person incapable of truth, then why or how would anyone who actually was that dispicable, obey the holder of their oathstone? He was so far away from the Shin people, and no one outisde his own culture or religion would understand the significance of the oathstone. He could have lied anytime and disobeyed. How could breaking his oath be worse than being responsible for every evil thing someone else commanded of him? Its seems an absolutely absurd tradition. I wonder how the Shin, who seem to abhor violence, could send someone TRAINED and holding an Honorblade out into the world that way. I can only suppose that Shen insisting the voidbringers were returning was convicted of some Heresy which undermines the entire Shin religion. (it seems like a theocracy, maybe I haven't read enough about them..) He also would have had to already have been a priveleged warrior amongst the shin, if he already was trained in the honorblades... but among the Shin warriors are the least valued... It seems full of contradictions to me. Can't wait to read more.

No, I'm insisting on boundaries. Linton's comment insisted that somehow any other readers should pay particular attention or sensitivity to his or her sexuality. The implication is that readers are doing something wrong by not taking special consideration of another, unknown, reader's personal life. That is a false premise and its exhibitionist. To simplify the logic I'll paraphrase Linton'scomment: "Don't ignore my opinion because you don't think its relevant to the characters. If you do, then you are insulting those who are bisexual".[/background] It is exactly relevant for the discussion whether a reader thinks Brandon will or won't write a bisexual character or hasn't written a bisexual character. To say otherwise implies that other readers need to make special considerations on one's opinion because that one is bisexual, not for any merit of the opinion. Maybe that's not exactly what was intended, but I can only understand the words written. Unlike verbal communication, forums only have text. On another note, Is there something wrong with refusing to empathize with someone? Its not nice to refuse to sympathize, but empathy is not sympathy. Is bisexuality something to be pitied? I didn't have that impression. Empathy is understanding and FEELING the same feelings as another. I don't see why anyone should be required to internalize the feelings of another. Thank you! The trouble has just been that all return characters were removed when I submit a post. It does seem to be the rich text editor. Error popups always appeared when it loaded and closed. They do not appear on the plain text editor.

GRR,,. I know. I think this forum hates Chrome. I have to edit every one of my posts to but my spaces back in. It removes all line spaces on new posts which are not replies... I didn't have time to edit it this morning. *Paragraphs separated.

Shallan had instant chemistry with both Adolin and Kaladin. However, the shape of is was different both ways. The chemistry with Kaladin was more subtle. Both Kaladin and Shallan lost their usual control towards each other. Their is an underlying intimacy and familiarity between them that existed before they could really get to know each other at all. The chemistry between Shallan and Adolin was more traditional. There was an instant outward attraction and all the butterflies of puppy love. It also seems to be growing in a healthy direction thru their dates. They are both enjoying each other's company and supporting and learning about one another. Adolin may need to step up a bit more in this regard though. He is mostly just being himself. His efforts to protect Shallan are natural and gallant, but misplaced in Shallan's case, through no fault of his own. He does appear to have the capacity to protect Shallan in exactly the way she needs however, the challenge will be him recognizing it. Shallan has been the spiritual protector of her Father and Brother's for a large chunk of her life. Who will be her support in these things? Adolin has the strength to be that for her, but will he have the tact? Also adjusting to the idea of Shallan being more powerful than he could be quite a challenge for him. He's starting to realize that, and he seems positive, but the practical implications could build up on him. There is also a mutual respect and admiration between both Shallan and Adolin and Shallan and Kaladin. Although Kaladin only gains that respect for Shallan as He learns she really has faced down the Helplessness and despair which Kaladin is struggling with. I don't think a romantic relationship between Shallan and Kaladin will cement unless Adolin dies. It could very well be that the relationship spoils, but I don't think it will. Adolin and Shallan both have a strong sense of duty if nothing else. they will keep to their bonds. I think Shallan will not hold Adolin's murder of Sadeus against him. Although I can't say the same of Adolin holding Shallan's killing of her parents against her. Matricide and Patricide are far scarier accusations in this society methinks. Shallan's past has some real challanges for Adolin. If Adolin dies and a relationship pushes forward between Shallan and Kaladin, then it would seem parallel to the pattern of Navani and Dalinar. Also in the point that Dalinar's intensity frightened Navani as a younger woman similar to Kaladin's intensity intimidating Shallan. I've toyed with the idea of romantic feelings between Kaladin and Jasnah, though Its HIGHLY unlikely imo. I think that moreso, I'm just excited to see how they act when they meet. They have such strong personalities and intensity that I expect them to clash in some way. Similar to the frustration that instantly grew between Kaladin and Shallan. However Kaladin is not likely to get under Jasnah's skin so completely. It could just as likely be all cool on the outside with a mutual respect for one another. Jasnah is also Alethkar's only feminist. She's either doesn't like men at all (and I wouldn't be surprised if she had a subtle romantic relationship with another woman.) OR she'll be completely swept off her feet when she finally meets the right one. Laral was not in the list. She and Kaladin had romantic feelings as teenagers for each other. Their timing was mismatched and that ship has largely sailed w/ Laral probably being married off to Roshone (Poor girl!)(not to mention throwing Kaladin under the bus when spending time w/ Roshone's son). However, Kaladin is now returning to Hearthstone in great glory! AS A LIGHTEYES! You can't say Laral won't be feeling some regret and hope for Kaladin when he arrives. Will the tragedy of her circumstances pluck at the protective behaviors in Kaladin? I don't think it will be the relationship for Kaladin, but it will be some drama. What would also be interesting to see is how many other women will start to take more interest in Kaladin or if he will remain too far out of reach. Kaladin the Soldier wasn't around many women while fighting, or he was too focused on soldiering and protecting to even notice them. This pattern didn't change w/ Kaladin the Bridgeman slave, though Being a bridgeman and slave would have kept anyone away. Captain of the Guard would have made him MUCH more interesting, but come on its a war camp... There are light-eyed nobility who would only see the Darkeyes Captain as an Oddity and most darkeyes in the camps are solider families already. The Parshendi war has ended now. Even though there is likely much fighting to come, it doesn't have the same feeling as a war between nations and peoples. Its now an Apocalypse type war. I don't think the Alethi war codes will be maintained. IN the face of Apocolypse, people want their families. Poeple fight, but try to live life as much they can while they can. There are also alot of widows from the warcamps now. Kaladin became lighteyes, so how many women will be interested in Kaladin now? I think at least some ambitious opportunists would. OR do his circumstances still make him too intimidating? the contrast of Lighteyes/darkeyes, Slave & Radiant? and his own sheer intensity and focus. Finally the OTHER that I really wanted to mention is Syl. Yes, this seems unlikely to me the way Brandon has written it. BUT In one way the Spren share a VERY intimate relationship with their Radiants. On the other they seem so overlooked by them at times. Kaladin often doesn't take Syl seriously. That may have changed greatly thru her "death" and restoration. The more the bond progresses the more human the spren become. She is his constant companion. How far will she change? Someone else already mentioned how that could affect a relationship. What happens when your spouse has an invisible person with them all the time? intimately connected... (reminiscent of Ender and his wife in Children of the Mind) Its likely that Spren will remain sufficiently alien from people that a romantic relationship would not develop. However, the potential exists methinks and it certainly has potential to affect a romantic relationship. I wouldn't be surprised if Kaladin never develops a Romance with the way this is going so far.

Yep, I'm completely ignoring your sex life as it has nothing to do with me. I hope you will also completely ignore my sex life also as it has nothing to do with you. Oh yeah, Kaladin isn't gay. It seems rather clear in the story that he's straight. Everyone can feel free to entertain the fantasies of whatever character relationships they want, but its seems rather inconsistent with the story and characters. When your break that continuity it hurts a story. You lose the willing suspension of disbelief from your audience.

Kaladin's judgment against Szeth was spot on. A person who won't make their own decisions is a coward. At first look Only an Evil person would commit the murders which Szeth had. A psychopath. one who does not value human life. However, Kaladin learns that Szeth does not outwardly excuse or condone his actions. He does care for the horror of what he has done Szeth feels that Horror. In this case, Szeth was simply too cowardly to stand up for that which is right. He was too cowardly to act against the pronouncement that he was Truthless. Was there some Magic bending Szeth's will to obey the holder of his Oathstone? None at all. The evil he did as Truthless was far worse than breaking an oath when he was already "Truthless" Its an inherent contradiction really. Only Szeth's honest cowardice could keep him enslaved. He could have let go that shackle anytime he mustered the courage to reject the pronouncement of Truthless against him. He was too afraid to choose for himself. Also, the Way of Kings shows Szeth's moral decay as he obeys worse and worse masters. His attitude changes from the beginning of it to the End. He turns the self loathing towards his victims. Its not just when he figures "why not kill Adolin on his own time" it starts much earlier. (grrr.. what is w/ this post writing tool? I have to edit every post to put some white space in.. it keeps removing it all and smashing everything into one running paragraph >.<!)

You just want to be argumentative. Moose in and Airplane? why do you strive for hyperbole? More of that argumentativeness, I suppose? Of course I don't have an example! I'm speculating! ...but for arguments sake, I'm glad I kept that Collection of Law for each land in Roshar. If you don't have your own copy, this is going to be a very one-sided discussion! A bit more seriously, the division of Light-eyes and Dark-eyes in Alethkar and Jah Keved will certainly provide an abundance of injustice of the Laws in those lands. Perhaps I'm taking for granted that others may have pondered how Truly terrible pure Justice can be! Let alone Nin's version of Justice. Its Monstrous! he's not adhering to Justice really, but LAW! How many rediculous laws have you ever heard of in Real Life? Now, add completely rigid punishiment for every law. Futhermore there is No recourse to challenge that law or seek a more merciful penalty because of any circumstances. Its a terrifying thing.

Yep, and I'm sure the laws in each of the lands is quite equitable and just... or NOT!

I think you are on the right track. The Parshendi and spren would be native to Roshar. However I don't think the tranquiline halls was a ship. I'm guessing its a planet. Odium is on another planet too and that would be Damnation while the Tranquiline Halls would be another Planet which people were driven from.

They are well suited to subterfuge, yes... BUT Pattern already confirmed that no bonded Cryptics survived from before. So the Lightweavers did in fact fall. Also, they are not just about lies. they are about Truth and Lies. It is the relationship between the 2. Even though they Cryptics are fascinated by lies, they are not really dishonest. In fact, Shallan's inhibition toward accepting certain Truths was the only thing holding her back from advancing as a Radiant. I don't think Lightweavers could be bad guys so much. I'm looking forward to How Shallan walks the line between the Knights Radiant the and Ghostbloods. I think this will be a challenge to her similar to Kaladin's challenges in WoR.

I think the the secret was because there is something which helps bring a desolation about them. IIRC the Shin and Taravangian seem to think the return of the Radiants will indicate or cause another desolation. Perhaps they wanted to keep as much power back in Honor so that he could fight on even footing w/ Odium. Like how preservation was 'losing' to ruin when he put more of his power into people than Ruin did. Perhaps some power was locked away from Honor because it was given to others. .. Then again that would not hold after Honor is dead. but there could be something similar... Obviously the Recreance is a big mystery. Kaladin's experience w/ Syl in WoR gives us the pattern of what would be needed for it to happen. He had conflicting oaths. I suspect the Radiants found something that they would best protect people by breaking the Nahel bond. I suspect this was probably necessary because of the Oathbreaking of the Heralds. I think the Herald's broken oath changed circumstances so that the Radiants could not continue as they did. I think they all despaired for their spren but sacrificed themselves and their spren to preserve the world... this attitude seems to break the first Oath that all Radiants have in common. "Life before Death" (lol looks like I should have read more of the thread first. Obviously these are not new ideas)