shawnhargreaves Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Re-reading WoR chapter 43 (where Shallon meets Mraize) two things struck me: 1) Mraize repeatedly talks about people as prey. "Deciding not to come in person, however - that cowardice turns my stomach. She hides, like prey." And later on, "Amaram is a Shardbearer in the court of Highprince Sadeas. He is also my current prey." 2) Something about Mraize reminds Shallon of her childhood memories of Hoid. "One drew her attention most. [snip] He reminded her of someone, a man from her childhood. The messenger with the smiling eyes, the enigma who knew so much. Two blind men waited at the end of an era, contemplating beauty..." Wildly hypothesizing based on feel of this chapter rather than any actual evidence, something about Mraize feels dragonish to me. The word "prey", his magnetism, collection of treasures, claw-like fingers on his scarred right hand, and the way Shallon feels his eyes on her back as she leaves. Of course this could just be Brandon writing a strong, charismatic villain, but I'm going with Mraize as dragon. And since Shallon recognized Mraize as being somehow similar to Hoid, that would mean Hoid is one too... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolhead Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Good catch on the Hoid connection. I'd love it if they were dragons, but Hoid's correspondence with a dragon whom he refers to as "you old reptile" makes me think he's not (though this isn't proof either way - just my gut feeling). Perhaps someone who's read Brandon's unpublished books could chime in on whether Hoid could possibly be a dragon. How do the dragons in Dragonsteel work? If they're not dragons, I wonder what it is about Mraize that reminds Shallan of Hoid. Presumably they're both worldhoppers. Maybe they're both from Yolen? Or perhaps they have similar powersets? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Hoid was originally human (Don't know what he is now). I do like this theory! He's certainly friendly with Frost the dragon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'm not sure how relevant or accurate Liar of Partinel is these days, but for what it's worth Midas was definately human there. Also, Mraize and Hoid are both worldhoppers, and Kaladin was able to see the age and weight in the eyes of Vasher, who is also a worldhopper. Seems to me that they all have something about them that people can spot if they look hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolhead Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Hoid was originally human (Don't know what he is now). I do like this theory! He's certainly friendly with Frost the dragon You just reminded me of this quote from B. Q: Is Hoid human? A: Hoid was human a long time ago. Now... it's complicated. We would call him human, and so will pretty much everyone else, but he is not exactly that. The words "we would call him human" imply to me that he's not something so obviously non-human as a dragon =( 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkasZelda Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I am so down with the dragon theory. Can we all go ahead and believe this?I know I am. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've thinking about Mraize being a dragon for a while now - for pretty much the same reasons you listed up there (predominant use of words like "hunt" and "prey," as well as general personality traits). I don't buy into Hoid being one, but I would not be surprised if Mraize ended up as such. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuthie Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 BS quote about Hoid's humanity strikes me more as a comment about how much investiture changes people. Its like Obi-Wan saying that Darth Vader is more machine now than man. Hoid is a heavily invested human. At what point does a being who can change their shape, travel in an instant, heal themselves through thought, know things about the future...at what point is such a being no longer human? By Cosmere rules I'd say they are no longer human when they no longer think of themselves as human. So BS is saying that Hoid, because of his past and his level of investiture, no longer thinks of himself as human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I was thinking more along the lines of "Hoid's spiritweb is so modified, it doesn't look like that of a "regular" human." But yea, same idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macros Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 well dragons are known to hoard treasure and Mraize certainly has his collection of "treasures" so maybe you guys are onto something with the dragon theory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Mraize Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I guess my concept of what a dragon is will be rocked, but how exactly does a dragon assume the form of humans? I won't be surprised if Mraize is not human, he is a predator of sorts in my mind, and he certainly on my first read posed as someone, like Zahel, that is clearly not from this world. Has Brandon given any hints to his version of dragons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhargreaves Posted April 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 how exactly does a dragon assume the form of humans? Lightweaving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Lightweaving, at least the Rosharan kind, only creates illusions. It doesn't matter how good of an illusionist you are, you can't hide a dragon of stereotypical dimensions in a cellar. But maybe there is some shapeshifting going on - it's a popular draconic ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasteel Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I agree with Argent, if you've read any R.A Salvatore - pretty much every dragon can shapeshift into a human form. I wouldn't be surprised if Brandon had something similar happening, considering we have a whole race of dragons which could be introduced at any time! Mraize being a dragon would be one hell of a story arc that I personally can't wait to read more about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Mraize Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Lightweaving, at least the Rosharan kind, only creates illusions. It doesn't matter how good of an illusionist you are, you can't hide a dragon of stereotypical dimensions in a cellar. But maybe there is some shapeshifting going on - it's a popular draconic ability. True, but I give Brandon credit for not going the popular route with his concepts. Hoid's origin story is in Dragonsteel correct? And Hoid says he began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page... So if perhaps these dragon's can create a being from concept, perhaps they can shift and change themselves. Could the dragon we assume Hoid is writing in the letter be Mraize, who created Hoid (by that description)? I may be getting it all mixed up though. And I'm just now finding out about dragonsteel and the other works, so you may just want to chuckle and ignore the newbie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkasZelda Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 True, but I give Brandon credit for not going the popular route with his concepts. Hoid's origin story is in Dragonsteel correct? And Hoid says he began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page... So if perhaps these dragon's can create a being from concept, perhaps they can shift and change themselves. Could the dragon we assume Hoid is writing in the letter be Mraize, who created Hoid (by that description)? I may be getting it all mixed up though. And I'm just now finding out about dragonsteel and the other works, so you may just want to chuckle and ignore the newbie. No chuckle intended, but Hoid was originally definitely a human as in Liar of Partinel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArcanist Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Has anyone ever asked Brandon a question specifically about what his dragons are like? That could clear a few things up. The being said, how does the Recipient of the Letter, who is also the writer of the Reply, actually write it? Being a dragon and all. It could be that Mraize is a dragon, but then that begs the question, what is his mentor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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