happyman he/him Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Well to be fair when Stan Lee created Magneto I'm not sure he realized what he was creating when he 'just' gave him power over electromagnetism The "power over electromagnetism" is fine. The fact that there is no cost or limit is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 The "power over electromagnetism" is fine. The fact that there is no cost or limit is not. I don't think comics are usually too big into costs or limits to power in general. I mean wolverine grows back from a skeleton after being thrown in lava, Superman uses his abilities without cost, etc. It's just that it turns out elctromagnitism has a much more far reaching impact than was probably suspected at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkthinker Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 It depends on who's writing it. One of the things to remember about some comics franchises (not applicable to ALL COMICS) is that they are franchises... they shift from hand to hand, and depending on who's managing it they may have very different ideas about the limit of powers. In many cases, the limits are defined by the needs of the existing plot-of-the-moment. Problems arise when that sort of organization meets continuity. If only one person was writing Wolverine stories, there would be more cohesively defined parameters to his healing factors, etc. But that's not how a franchise that runs monthly releases over 30+ years generally works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Are we talking about Kelsier the Mistborn, or Kelsier the Sliver of Adonalsium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 It depends on who's writing it. One of the things to remember about some comics franchises (not applicable to ALL COMICS) is that they are franchises... they shift from hand to hand, and depending on who's managing it they may have very different ideas about the limit of powers. In many cases, the limits are defined by the needs of the existing plot-of-the-moment. Problems arise when that sort of organization meets continuity. If only one person was writing Wolverine stories, there would be more cohesively defined parameters to his healing factors, etc. But that's not how a franchise that runs monthly releases over 30+ years generally works. I agree with this. It's also one of the reasons I can't get into comic books---they have nifty premises, and I enjoy the movies in brainless kind of way (and some individual realizations are brilliant), but 30+ years of continuity snarls, and different authors, and enormous amounts of illogical situations, makes it impossible to invest myself emotionally in the characters. By the time I was in a position to actually read them, I was well past the point where they would impress me. I was too old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darniil he/him Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 but 30+ years of continuity snarls, and different authors, and enormous amounts of illogical situations Things like this have often made me think that most of today's comics are just "official" fanfics. That is, if the characters aren't written by their original creators, then nothing that's done by those characters can be 100% true to the intent of their creators. Then again, that may just be me being elitist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 he/him Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Does that make A Memory of Light fanfic then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST he/him Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 the most official kind of fanfic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostedDonut he/him Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Magneto. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Does that make A Memory of Light fanfic then? Yep. But since that's all we have, it's what we will end up reading. I'm guessing most fans will still consider it canon, though. It's more than fanon, after all. I mean, many of the most important revealed mysteries in the books Brandon wrote were clearly from RJ's notes. So, gray area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darniil he/him Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Does that make A Memory of Light fanfic then? Heh. Well, it's one thing to have, say, Joey Q "write" Spiderman or Frank Miller write Batman, versus someone finishing something based off of someone else's notes. I'd probably put these last three WoT books in a similar category with most anything Christopher Tolkien released based upon JRRT's notes. Yes, there's spackling paste in the cracks that needed filling in, but the majority/important bits of the structure are still by the original craftsman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHyde she/her Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Okay, I think now we have to debate Miles vs. Wolverine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darniil he/him Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 >.<# I'm going to say this would end up like Corwin dueling Random - it would go on for days straight, with neither of them taking a break to eat or sleep, and then one would call it off because he had to get ready for a date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiken Frost he/him Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Wolverine would eventually rip all metalminds off Miles. Pretty easily, even. He can't burn the metals if his stomach is in Wolverine's hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHyde she/her Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Yeah, I would say that while I think (not even sure on this) that Miles can heal faster, Wolverine's a better fighter by far and would end up winning this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariusJenai Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) How has Magneto not conquered the world yet, with a power like that? It basically takes the entire X-Team to stop him, and at one point he used his powers to successfully blackmail the entire planet into letting him create his own country. Edited November 11, 2011 by DariusJenai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal he/him Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Yeah, I would say that while I think (not even sure on this) that Miles can heal faster, Wolverine's a better fighter by far and would end up winning this one. I would contest this, because wolverine was able to heal himself from being at the center of a nuclear bomb blast at one point. If your regeneration can do this, there is no way for anything to have "better" healing, only "on par". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHyde she/her Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 wolverine was able to heal himself from being at the center of a nuclear bomb blast at one point. Ah, I was not aware of that. I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal he/him Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Ah, I was not aware of that. I see your point. though, i should probably mention that the power of his healing depends on the writer at the time, usually. However, that's how it is with like all comics. Wolverine from 20 years ago could only heal like fairly minor injuries at an accelerated rate (like healed a day or two quicker). Wolverine's healing now is pretty much just "god-mode" healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoughtful Spurts Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) Hello everyone! Magneto vs Kelsier? I actually think Kelsier. A fight between the two shouldn't end up being just a pushing match, it would be about wit and resourcefulness, and Kelsier has more weapons at his disposal than Magneto does. I think everyone's underestimating Allomancy here by just thinking of pushing, pulling, and using pewter for the fight. Whatever happened to Emotional Allomancy? Magneto has one of the more angsty, pained, and exploitable pasts (still depending on what you count as continuity, but whatever) around. Riot fear, pain, despair, etc, and it wouldn't be too hard leaving the man a whimpering pile of despair on the floor, easy to finish off. It's been established that while Kelsier isn't subtle, he can push and pull on emotions with a lot of strength. On the other hand, Kelsier can riot anger, and just let Magneto make however many mistakes in a blind, angry fury, avoiding the flying bits of metal thanks to Atium, or just pushing on said metals to get away from them, and Kelsier would have a good chance at just tiring Magneto out. Hell, if Kelsier managed to goad Magneto into making a mess of their playing field, it shouldn't be too hard to sneak up on the old man while the dust is still in the air and slit his throat with a glass knife. Obviously, the biggest problem could be that Magneto can manipulate metals inside someone's body, thereby easily able to empty out Kelsier's reserves, but if Kelsier's Kandra (whose name escapes me at the moment) could go around hiding and giving him a large enough supply of metals, it would just become a test of stamina. So we have a man very far beyond his fifties (what is he, eighty something?) who goes around moving metals through his life, versus the Survivor of the Pits, mistborn, who spent quite a bit of time on crap food going up and down cracks, who had lived as a leader for a thieving crew, who is in undeniable great shape, and under forty years old. Who's gonna have the most stamina again? Also, given that we can assume Magneto wouldn't know a lot about allomancy, he could just be unaware of where Kelsier gets his powers and not push the metals out of him at all. After all, does magneto have a way of knowing whether something is metal or not other than by trying to manipulate it? He doesn't have the blue lines lurchers and coinshots do, does he? And even if he did know that allomancy is based on downing metals inside one's own body and "burning" them, Kell could easily just start flaring up metals and drinking more vials (courtesy of the hidden Kandra) to avoid Magneto pushing on them too much by having the metals be inside him for the minimum amount of time required to flare them. And that's even assuming it would be a problem. All in all, Magneto can't be that powerful, or good at taking out metals inside someone's body. Else he'd just be able to take advantage of the combined yet normal levels of iron, zinc, calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, rubidium, strontium, lead, copper, aluminium, cadmium, cerium, barium, titanium, nickel, chromium, manganese, lithium, mercury, molybdenum, radium, beryllium, tungsten, samarium, uranium, vanadium, antimony, silver, gallium, gold and a bunch other metals that make up the part of the human body that isn't oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen. That's about four percent of the human body right there, all inside one's system. For the average tall man weighting around 80Kg, that's 3kg of matter that could be yanked off a person. Eight small nutella jars. Cobalt, iron and nickel are all ferromagnetic for one, but so far I've only see him pull iron out of people. And adamantium, but I doubt that metal would be involved here. If Magneto could easily get rid of ALL those metals inside people's bodies there'd be no need for him to push back bullets, or to make giant plates of metals that slice through people, or to go around slamming cars into people. So from the fact that he doesn't exploit being able to rip out at least 31 different metals out of people all the time, we can assume it's not as easy for him to do. While we may not know the actual limitations of Magneto's power ( 'just' power over electromagnetism) they're there. Maybe. Maybe the writers are just insane, or have the ability to temporarily make their neurons disappear while they work. Either way, if magneto could play with the metals in a person's body so "easily", then it wouldn't matter whether or not Kelsier had metals in his stomach for Magneto to be able to kill him. Yet, since he doesn't really use this very practical tool to kill many people (that I've seen. Not An Expert Disclaimer), it can be assumed that he has a limitation of some sort. Else there would never be any sort of fight with him, and he would kill anyone he has to with this instead of it being a rarely used technique. And we could come back to the emotional allomancy thing, Kelsier could just confuse magneto with random flaring bouts of emotion rioting and soothing, leading him to miss and become less effective in the fight. And none of this is even factoring in the ability to use the mists to ones advantage, assuming the fight was in a place such as Luthadel. I love interesting discussions like this. Sorry for the run-on sentences. -0-0-0-0-0- On the Miles versus Wolverine thing, I think I do side with the Marvel character this time. Miles can regenerate all he wants, but he's dependent on his metalminds. Wolverine, with 'adamantium' claws, could easily just slice Miles nine ways to sunday until he got rid of all the man's metalminds and Miles died off. Though if we take away the whole "god mode healing" ability of Wolverine's, it becomes a much more even fight, since Miles has guns and could just shoot Wolverine in the face a few times while Wolverine (even though he can have access to guns) has a tendency to fight close up and one on one. So the question would be whether Miles has a way to distance himself from Wolverine, since as I previously stated, Wolverine can just cut off Miles' metalminds and kill him off. Edited November 13, 2011 by Thoughtful Spurts 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Important_wavy_thing she/her Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Kelsier, almost certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) What now? Magneto can manipulate all spectrum of electromagnetism? That's, like, seriously overpowered. Anyway, even if we go by standard, magnetism-based Magneto, he wins very easily. Just rip the metals out of the stomach or use the coins Kelsier would surely carry. (BoM spoiler) Now, if we go by Fullborn Kelsier, that depends if he would try to speed-kill Magneto. If he seriously overtaps steel, he could probably kill Magneto before he has a chance to sense him coming. BTW, someone here mentioned emotional Allomancy. Not gonna work. Magneto's helmet is specifically designed to prevent any form of telepathy working on him. It would probably interfere with Soothing and Rioting as well. Edited June 23, 2016 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie.x.3000 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I'm pretty sure Kelsier holding Preservation would defeat Magneto, since Magneto can't actually affect Kelsier since he doesn't have a physical body. However, human Kelsier and human Magneto, I would think Magneto would win. I mean, what else? Hard fantasy vs soft fantasy, Soft fantasy basically wins every single times simply due to lack of strict limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 19 hours ago, Oversleep said: What now? Magneto can manipulate all spectrum of electromagnetism? That's, like, seriously overpowered. Anyway, even if we go by standard, magnetism-based Magneto, he wins very easily. Just rip the metals out of the stomach or use the coins Kelsier would surely carry. (BoM spoiler) Hide contents Now, if we go by Fullborn Kelsier, that depends if he would try to speed-kill Magneto. If he seriously overtaps steel, he could probably kill Magneto before he has a chance to sense him coming. BTW, someone here mentioned emotional Allomancy. Not gonna work. Magneto's helmet is specifically designed to prevent any form of telepathy working on him. It would probably interfere with Soothing and Rioting as well. Its gotten to the point that he can create black holes, and bend light to turn invisible by manipulating the electromagnetic spectrum. Oh and apparently because all living beings have a weak electromagnetic field, he can manipulate them too, without needing metal. Also some writer at some point decided "why not give Magneto some telepathy too?". I loved comic books when I was a kid, but now there are just too many chefs in the kitchen to cook anything palatable for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 he/him Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) magneto is broken af. Current kelsier beats him though(maybe) Edited June 26, 2016 by asterion137 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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