Shardplate creation.

[LiquidBlue]

I still subscribe to the the shard plate is cousin spren theory.

Addressing some of the objections:

Shadplates crack and can be destroyed, but a shardblade doesn't. Not only is the shadblade made of a much more powerful type of spren, but it is also made of a singular spren. Cracking or destroying a shardblade would be the same as shattering a spren. Sure it is possible, but not at the power level we are dealing with. Shardplate is made up of a multitude of spren which still retain to some extent their identity as an aggregate.

Spren would not consent to the involuntary trapping of other spren, even lesser spren. I think that the sharplate being gained as the Radiant progresses in their Oaths is telling. The spren are not trapped, but find common cause with a Radiant that has sworn the appropriate oaths.

How does feeding stormlight to shardplate made of spren cause it to regenerate? As I mentioned above, the collection of spren making up the shardplate still retain to a certain extent their identity as an aggregate. A shardplate that is cracked or damaged is having the spren that make up the shardplate disperse. Notwithstanding, this lingering aggregate identity, the shardplate does have a singular identity as shardplate. It is suggestive that when a shardplate is damaged, the remaining pieces can be used to contest the shardplate. The shrdplate ultimately ends up with the most substantial piece fed a consistent stream of stormlight. I think that the process of reconstituting shardplate with stormlight, is similar to how stormlight can be used in Shadesmar to cause the beads to come together and form in the shape of a physical object. 

Shadeplate left behind in the Recreance doesn't scream. The spren that compose shardplate aren't symbiotic with the Radiant the way the radiant spren are. When the Radiants broke their oaths, they weren't ripping apart the minds of the spren that make up the shardplate. In fact the spren are perfectly content to continue being shardplate.

My spren shardplate theory:

Just like the radiant spren are following an existing template when they manifest as a shardblade, the lesser spren are also following a template when they become shardplate. Whether this template pre-existed the Radiants and was co-opted by them, or it was created for the Radiants, I don't know. Every type of Radiant spren is associated with a type of lesser spren, and may in fact be the same type of spren that simple differ by a quantum level of investiture and purpose. When a Radiant progresses sufficiently in their oaths, and their bond with their spren becomes sufficiently tight, and their purposes and intents become sufficiently aligned, the lesser spren find that their purposes and intents are fulfilled by becoming shardplate.

Now some additional speculation to which I am not really wedded :

The lesser spren do not lead an independent existence even when scattered by damage to the shardplate.
The shardplate is not made from existing spren, but upon reaching (and approaching) the appropriate level, they are newly created or drawn from the spiritual realm.
When a Radiant dismisses their shardplate, the spren do not return to the cognitive realm, but to the spiritual.

[BrightnessSamantha she/her]

I first came on this thread to voice my opinion that Radiant shardplate is lesser spren.  But now I'm leaning both ways.  I like @ScarletSabre theory and @Calderis edit.  I think that it's a combination of the two now.

On 7/16/2018 at 6:15 PM, Calderis said:

 

Edit: 

An additional spren theory, put forward by @Yata on discord that I actually really like. 

The Radiant creates the framework that we see with Stormlight, and the Spren enter, and are not stripped of their own identity, and not bonded, but seeded with investiture from the Spren and Radiant, similar to what Sja-anat has done to Glys. 

They aren't killed, and they aren't bonded, but become in essence the bonded pairs "children" as Glys is Sja-anat's son. 

Per this WoB, the Radiant and their bonded Spren are becoming one individual spiritually, with two minds.

If the Spren and Radiant are one individual, then their identity should be matched. Seeding the power of the Spren into the lesser spren should create the "familiarity" that @Pagerunner mentions.

 

This is a spren theory that I can actually get behind.

On 7/17/2018 at 4:08 AM, ScarletSabre said:

I actually posted a theory a long while ago about how I thought Shardplate was crystalised/hardened Stormlight, given that Stormlight can make it regrow, and that Radiants in Dalinar's visions didn't glow, instead using the excess Stormlight to create Plate and "retracting" it by reabsorbing the Light.

I should find that old thread, it may have some useful details or theories for this.... 

I like the idea that Radiants can reabsorb the stormlight that makes shardplate as I feel it would take a tremendous amount of it and could drain the user of all their stormlight.

We see Kaladin in OB attract hundreds of windspren during a highstorm to help block the wind to get the townspeople to safety.  To me, only shardplate would be able to do such a thing. 

Although we see gloryspren around Dalinar a lot, I think it's more likely that bindspren might be what a bondsmith would use for their plate since they are not an emotion spren.

I'm not too versed on the shards but is it possible that the presence of Honor and Cultivation on Roshar are what make Radiant shardplate possible since these are the two shards that are located on Roshar?  We see Odium as well but he is more linked with emotion spren and we all know emotions can be finicky.  It makes more sense that natural phenomena spren would be more likely to build plate since they are readily available.  There is always going to be wind and something that is bound together in the physical realm, for example. 

On 7/17/2018 at 0:10 AM, Gasper said:

Regarding the destruction of shardplate, it could be that the damage to the plate forces the lesser spren back into the cognitive realm and stormlight or a similar form of investure is needed to pull them back into the Shardplate to fix it. That would explain why you can regrow a full set of armor from something like a shinguard or a gauntlet. By feeding the piece stormlight, it attracts the rest of the spren that form the armor because the stormlight supplying the energy to pull them into the physical realm. 

I pulled this from Coppermind and thought it goes well with what @Gasper said.  This could be why there are not as many plates as blades because these lesser spren weren't damaged by the Nahel bond and are free to go back to the cognitive realm once the plate disintegrates.

Shardplate has the ability to use Stormlight to regenerate itself when damaged.^[14] If sections of a suit of armor are destroyed or abandoned, they can be regenerated later by using Stormlight from the suit's gemstones. Once the Shardplate regenerates an abandoned piece, the previous piece will crumble to dust.^[7] Repairing a heavily-damaged set of Shardplate can be costly as it commonly cracks the gemstones used during the process.^[19] Through some unknown method, common spheres can also be used to repair Plate.

 

[+Child of Hodor]

On 7/17/2018 at 1:37 PM, Bigmikey357 said:

I still like the idea that Living Shardplate is composed of cousin spren. Syl's comment about having kids, training them to harass Kaladin to me seems like an indicator instead of a non sequitur. 

Here's how I envision the process working. We know that a Radient gains power with each Oath spoken and internalized. In RPG terms their MP bar goes up with each oath. At the 3rd oath they gain a sprenblade (most Orders); those blades are nearly infinitely malleable but their traditional, 'base' form is a blade. When the next oath is spoken, more investiture is available to the Radient, enough so that the head spren is able to direct their 'cousins' to become solid in the Physical Realm. The 'base' form for them is Plate but they are infinitely malleable as well. The higher spren establish the framework and the lesser spren that come to the call fill in the gaps, obeying the mandate to become solid. The lesser spren are not specific; they go to their places when called and go their own way when dismissed or are knocked out of the framework due to damage. Spren do not die. In dead plate, the Spren that came to call were locked into the framework, the base form and are only released when that part of the plate is damaged. When that section is regrown it's simply calling other like spren to fill in the part of the missing framework. It doesn't have to be the same spren answering the call, only the same type. If someone knocks a brick from the side of your house you replace it with another brick. And maybe the lesser spren do scream or feel pain, but they cannot voice it in a way anyone can hear. Do bacteria scream? Maybe, but who knows? A cake has a spren. Does that cake scream when you eat it? Again who knows?

Just like a gem in the pommel allows a dead Shardblade to behave something like a living one, gemstones allow dead plate to perform some of the functionality of live Plate. Neither are malleable because that function requires a live mind to direct it; humans cannot interface directly with plate and couldn't even dismiss a blade without even the limited bond provided by the pommel gem. Stormlight is the energy source. Electricity powering equipment. Dead plates and dead blades are like computers operating in protected mode; limited function, basic features, no extras.

This. I wonder if Radiant Spren like Syl can "have kids" by using some of themselves to create lesser Spren. The lesser spren form the plate, but they still connected to the main Raidant Spren in such a way that when the bond with the main spren was broken it killed both plate and blade. 

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

I think this question will be ultimately answered when we find out exactly how Living Plate functions. We've seen the difference between living blades and dead blades already. We also know pretty much how dead plate functions. We've only had glimpses of what living plate is capable of, i.e. dismissing parts of it at will (how the Radiant in the visions dismisses only the helm for example). I'm still partial to my own theory not only because it makes sense to me but because if Calderis and others are right about crystallized Stormlight then why are the Radiants drawing spren we would consider to be cousins to their spren every time they do something extra Radiantly? Creationspren for Shallan, Logicspren for Jasnah, Lifespren for Lyft, Windspren for Kaladin, Gloryspren for Dalinar. Every time we see one of the Radiants closing in on an upgrade their cousins are drawn to them, more so depending on how far they have progressed. To me this seems related though maybe not so for others. Again, I'm sure that this will not be a mystery past this next book.

[Wreith he/him]

I'm on the fence about this and mostly just skimmed this thread, but here are some of my stream of consciousness thoughts on the conversation:

If the plate is condensed stormlight, why did it remain after the Recreance? In the vision we see pieces of it falling off of people. I would have expected it to simply disappear.
Blades remained because they are actual corpses that couldn't return to the cognitive without a connection to their knight (as I understand)
Corollary: When the gems attached to the plate run out of stormlight the plate doesn't disappear, it just stops behaving like assisted power armor.

If they are spren, why doesn't Syl ever comment about Plate use, even when Kal uses the helmet in the disadvantage duel? Possible she simply doesn't care about lesser spren; an attitude we've seen from her with regard to spren we don't associate with her.

We've seen lesser spren in their true forms now. Did we see (hear) any vocalizations from them? I don't remember. Maybe plate doesn't scream because lesser spren don't make sound at all.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Wreith