Stormlight Archive Spheres

[Proud Darkeyes]

Hi, I'm planning on making some sphere replicas, so I would love some people's help on how exactly they should look. Should the spheres be completely spherical, or are they actually flat on one side so you can put them down without them rolling away? Would the gemstones in the middle be cut precisely, like in the 'typical' (cartoonish) diamond shape, or would they be cut kind of roughly and in any kind of crystal-like shape? Would they be transparent or opaque (excluding clearmarks in that question)?

[LordOfStorms]

Hi Proud Darkeyes!

I worked for quite some time on creating these spheres. My priority was to use glass and the real polestone gems, with subsequent shape of the sphere/gem less important. The main problem was the glass kept cracking as it cooled, as the gem and glass contracted at different rates. I was eventually able to solve this with small gems using windowpane glass, whose expansion coefficient matched closer to that of ruby and diamond. (Report attached). Note that some gemstones shatter under the high heat. 

I've seen this done with glass and synthetic opals, which "play nice" and don't shatter the glass. If you want the correct "sphere with rounded bottom shape" using glass you may want to create a sphere and then polish the base down using a diamond dremil wheel. 

A cheaper and easier option would be to suspend faux gems in epoxy. (fill 1/2 full with epoxy, let dry. Place stone down at center and fill the rest of the way), can use a dremil/sandpaper to smooth to desired shape. 

Good luck on your project (it's a fun one), and feel free to PM me with questions. I myself started it because I told Sanderson at a signing that the gems were cracking the glass spheres. He was surprised and said if I could find a solution he might slip it in a stormlight book. I gave him my report, so fingers crossed

Sphere Creation.docx

[Argent]

Oh hey, I am actually working on updating the Coppermind article on spheres, but I can give you the highlights so far:

• @RShara is actually slightly wrong, the weights of the gems inside the spheres are 0.1ct for a chip, 0.5ct for a mark, and 2ct for a broam. This, according to some Googling on my part, leads to gem diameters of 3mm, 5mm, and 8mm respectively. 
• The actual spheres are a little bigger than a person's thumbnail, according to Shallan in WoK. According to a Google search for "average size of person's thumb nail" (which, I assure you, is not a combination of terms I would ever search for) and this website, we are probably looking at somewhere between 1.5cm and 2cm for the size of each sphere, glass bead included. That, according to the chart on this page, puts them somewhere between a US dime and a US quarter (except, obviously, spherical).
• I believe RShara's earlier image of a sphere with a flattened bottom is pretty accurate, but that's how I imagine them.

[RShara]

They're a little flat on one side. I had this question from someone on reddit earlier, and I gave them this image:

 

I'm not sure about the cut of the gem. I've asked Brandon but I'm still unclear on it. The gems can be cut and faceted in different ways, so I'm not sure which is standard for a sphere. My guess? would just be the typical Solitaire shape or maybe smoothly round. I know that the gems inside are something like .15 ct, .25 ct, .5 ct sizes. They are likely cut pretty precisely, since they hold a decent amount of stormlight.

[Proud Darkeyes]

11 minutes ago, RShara said:

They're a little flat on one side. I had this question from someone on reddit earlier, and I gave them this image:

 

I'm not sure about the cut of the gem. I've asked Brandon but I'm still unclear on it. The gems can be cut and faceted in different ways, so I'm not sure which is standard for a sphere. My guess? would just be the typical Solitaire shape or maybe smoothly round. I know that the gems inside are something like .15 ct, .25 ct, .5 ct sizes. They are likely cut pretty precisely, since they hold a decent amount of stormlight.

Okay thanks. Hmm okay so I'm still not sure what I'll do about the shape (I always pictured them cut more like the image I attached, but since they must be cut precisely to hold more stormlight I'm not sure). One more question though: what size would the spheres themselves be? I understand the different sizes of gemstones, but what about the overall sphere?

[RShara]

They're between the size of a regular marble and a shooter. Like, you know those decorative bead thingies you can get and put in vases? About that size, except round.

Yeah the rock in your image isn't cut at all as far as I can tell. That wouldn't really hold stormlight very well. Any kind of cut would involve polishing, and either a smooth cab or a faceted surface.

[Proud Darkeyes]

5 minutes ago, RShara said:

Yeah the rock in your image isn't cut at all as far as I can tell. That wouldn't really hold stormlight very well. Any kind of cut would involve polishing, and either a smooth cab or a faceted surface.

What about a shape sort of like this? Spherical, but still faceted

[RShara]

For the gem, right? Not for the sphere? That could work. I wish I'd heard back on the shape of the gem inside the gemstone.

A spherical cut like you have there would make a lot of sense for money spheres, because they would distribute light more evenly across the surface. Most gemcuts that are found in jewelry are meant to direct light up and out of the "face" of the gem, for maximum brilliance in the direction that most people would see it. So the top would be bright and the bottom would be pretty diffuse and dim.

*takes off hobbyist gemology hat*

To be honest, I doubt Brandon or Peter have put much thought into this, since they have better things to do (and I don't lol). They probably think of the gems inside spheres as looking like the gems you'd find in jewelry. But I like yours better. Or smooth round cuts.

[Proud Darkeyes]

Yes for the gemstone. Okay, so I think I'll probably end up going with this spherical but faceted cut in the end, since it seems to make the most sense. Thanks for the help! 

[RShara]

On 6/22/2018 at 0:15 AM, Proud Darkeyes said:

Yes for the gemstone. Okay, so I think I'll probably end up going with this spherical but faceted cut in the end, since it seems to make the most sense. Thanks for the help! 

We heard from Peter this last weekend. The chips are about .1 carat, the marks are .5 carat and the broams are 2 carats. And they're working on canonizing the cuts.

 

@LordOfStorms would dripping the glass onto the gem work? Or like, having the bottom half of the glass formed, with a hollow for the gem, put the gem inside, and then drip the glass over it?

Edited July 3, 2018 by RShara

[LordOfStorms]

The fundamental problem is one of cooling/contraction. Liquid glass touching a ruby, for example, will heat the ruby to the same temperature instantly, and as they cool together the glass will crack. If you built half the sphere (or the whole sphere, drilled a hole, and inserted the gem) and then put liquid glass on the gem you'd face cracking on any portion of glass that is fused to the gem. (If dripping liquid glass on room temp glass it may also not fuse together). I've tried remelting cracked spheres, encasing the spheres in insulation to lengthen the cooling time, cooling them faster, and using larger glass-to-gem ratios. 

The only solution I've found to work is picking a type of glass with a coefficient of thermal expansion that matches the gemstone you're working with. For rubies/sapphires window/picture frame glass seems to work, at least for small gems. Another option is to make it mostly out of glass, then drill inside, place the gem, and fill with something lower-heat like epoxy or borosilicate glass. The method I used in that report leads to drip-shaped "spheres," but it's easy to polish them into a sphere shape with a dremil and a diamond wheel. 

It was so exciting when I first got these to work, I considered trying to sell them. But med school started, I got busy, so I just gave a pile of them to Sanderson^_^

 

[Proud Darkeyes]

1 hour ago, LordOfStorms said:

Hi Proud Darkeyes!

I worked for quite some time on creating these spheres. My priority was to use glass and the real polestone gems, with subsequent shape of the sphere/gem less important. The main problem was the glass kept cracking as it cooled, as the gem and glass contracted at different rates. I was eventually able to solve this with small gems using windowpane glass, whose expansion coefficient matched closer to that of ruby and diamond. (Report attached). Note that some gemstones shatter under the high heat. 

I've seen this done with glass and synthetic opals, which "play nice" and don't shatter the glass. If you want the correct "sphere with rounded bottom shape" using glass you may want to create a sphere and then polish the base down using a diamond dremil wheel. 

A cheaper and easier option would be to suspend faux gems in epoxy. (fill 1/2 full with epoxy, let dry. Place stone down at center and fill the rest of the way), can use a dremil/sandpaper to smooth to desired shape. 

Good luck on your project (it's a fun one), and feel free to PM me with questions. I myself started it because I told Sanderson at a signing that the gems were cracking the glass spheres. He was surprised and said if I could find a solution he might slip it in a stormlight book. I gave him my report, so fingers crossed

Sphere Creation.docx

Thanks so much! Yeah I'm planning on using epoxy resin, and since I want it to glow in the dark (imitating stormlight), I'm planning on making the gemstones out of resin with glow powder as well. But thanks for all of the info!

[RShara]

1 hour ago, RShara said:

The chips are about .1 carat, the marks are .5 carat and the broams are 2 carats

4 minutes ago, Argent said:

Oh hey, I am actually working on updating the Coppermind article on spheres, but I can give you the highlights so far:

• @RShara is actually slightly wrong, the weights of the gems inside the spheres are 0.1ct for a chip, 0.5ct for a mark, and 2ct for a broam. This, according to some Googling on my part, leads to gem diameters of 3mm, 5mm, and 8mm respectively.

 

......?

Oh do you mean my original post? Yeah I added that I was wrong already, thanks

Also, I'm glad that my thought experiment on how the gems should be round works out physically too! So now we need to figure out something that looks and acts like glass, but doesn't need to be heated as much, as the actual material of the spheres?

Edited July 3, 2018 by RShara

[LordOfStorms]

Resin is a solid way to go! Maybe take a picture with the finished spheres in some CO2 fog...XD

[LordOfStorms]

If someone is still interested in making them from glass, glass "gems" might work as the insert. You would think they would melt and lose their shape but I've put moldavite (glass from meteorite impacts) in glass and it's held up. Try taking a glass faux gem and sticking it in barely-molten glass (squishy, not fully liquid). 

6 minutes ago, RShara said:

 

......?

Oh do you mean my original post? Yeah I added that I was wrong already, thanks

Also, I'm glad that my thought experiment on how the gems should be round works out physically too! So now we need to figure out something that looks and acts like glass, but doesn't need to be heated as much, as the actual material of the spheres?

 

[Proud Darkeyes]

47 minutes ago, LordOfStorms said:

Resin is a solid way to go! Maybe take a picture with the finished spheres in some CO2 fog...XD

Sure! Lol I may end up selling them on eBay as well.

[Argent]

14 minutes ago, Proud Darkeyes said:

Sure! Lol I may end up selling them on eBay as well.

I would check with Dragonsteel before doing something like this.

[RShara]

1 hour ago, Proud Darkeyes said:

Sure! Lol I may end up selling them on eBay as well.

There's a WoB on your being able to do this but I can't find it...

 

it basically says that you can sell them as long as you don't claim they are stormlight spheres or reference the books in your description. Market them as generic "fantasy spheres" and you're okay.

 

Edit: Found it, it wasn't transcribed. Go down to 4425 and 4426. You'll need an Arcanum account if you don't have one, to see it. It's separate from 17ths account or coppermind account. https://wob.coppermind.net/source/audio/240/edit/

Edited July 3, 2018 by RShara

[Proud Darkeyes]

1 hour ago, RShara said:

There's a WoB on your being able to do this but I can't find it...

 

it basically says that you can sell them as long as you don't claim they are stormlight spheres or reference the books in your description. Market them as generic "fantasy spheres" and you're okay.

 

Edit: Found it, it wasn't transcribed. Go down to 4425 and 4426. You'll need an Arcanum account if you don't have one, to see it. It's separate from 17ths account or coppermind account. https://wob.coppermind.net/source/audio/240/edit/

Okay, thanks for letting me know

[Gasper]

It is most likely that they soulcast glass around the spheres to get something perfectly round. That seems like a very Rosharian thing to do. And by they, I mean people who make the currency on Roshar.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Gasper
edited for clarity