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[OB] Regarding Endowment


goody153

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We know that the shards that even those who are mostly self-involved(Harmony) have some knowledge or aren't completely blind to what's happening around other systems especially Roshar(it seems that everybody knows the chaotic situation there). We know that Autonomy has seemingly been spreading her influence everywhere, Cultivation/Odium stuck with each other, Harmony and Endowment doing their own thing on their own world while the others being dead or we don't even know the other shards or where they are ATM.

The other shards also have their own side business aside the worlds they occupy, all but endowment.

Any WoB or any information regarding what she's been upto apart from managing her own world ? She has a very interesting shard and she actually seemed generally nice for a shard but we have so little information of her or even her shard.

Conceptually her shard should as interesting as Autonomy and just as flexible but we have nothing about her.

Edited by goody153
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As the first WoB says, she's more focused on her little corner of the Cosmere, which probably has a good deal to do with her Intent. It's interesting to note that when asked, Brandon said that if he had to take a Shard it's the one he'd want (of the ones we know, apparently his first choice would be one of the unknown six) and it's also the one that Hoid would be tempted by under the right circumstances. For a bit more discussion, there's some Oathbringer spoilers:

Spoiler

She's the author of the first letter in the epigraphs so we can deduce a bit about her from information contained within it.

- She still seems to have some fondness for Hoid.

- She is (or claims to be) very attentive and has noticed each time Hoid has arrived on Nalthis.

- She believes strongly in whatever agreement the Shards had to stay out of each others' way and is disappointed that so many have violated it. She regrets the deaths of Aona and Skai but seems to think they're better off without Uli Da, which is interesting.

- While not currently concerned with Odium, she says that if Rayse does become an issue, he will be dealt with. And so will Hoid if he becomes a problem.

Nothing precludes her from having a very subtle Master Plan involving, say, certain Returned, but her own focus definitely seems to be on Nalthis and that's unlikely to change.

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22 hours ago, John203 said:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/9-calamity-philadelphia-signing/#e7652

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36-arcanum-unbounded-chicago-signing/#e1492

Here are 2 big ones. The rope one is almost a decade old, so take it with a grain of salt. The alternate WoA ending is on his website.

That is a tad disappointing that Endowment isn't interested in the affairs outside Nalthais. Though it seems like she's probably using Vasher just to keep tabs of whatever was going on Roshar.

 

21 hours ago, Weltall said:

As the first WoB says, she's more focused on her little corner of the Cosmere, which probably has a good deal to do with her Intent. It's interesting to note that when asked, Brandon said that if he had to take a Shard it's the one he'd want (of the ones we know, apparently his first choice would be one of the unknown six) and it's also the one that Hoid would be tempted by under the right circumstances. For a bit more discussion, there's some Oathbringer spoilers:

  Hide contents

She's the author of the first letter in the epigraphs so we can deduce a bit about her from information contained within it.

- She still seems to have some fondness for Hoid.

- She is (or claims to be) very attentive and has noticed each time Hoid has arrived on Nalthis.

- She believes strongly in whatever agreement the Shards had to stay out of each others' way and is disappointed that so many have violated it. She regrets the deaths of Aona and Skai but seems to think they're better off without Uli Da, which is interesting.

- While not currently concerned with Odium, she says that if Rayse does become an issue, he will be dealt with. And so will Hoid if he becomes a problem.

Nothing precludes her from having a very subtle Master Plan involving, say, certain Returned, but her own focus definitely seems to be on Nalthis and that's unlikely to change.

So that was Endowment. I was having a difficult time figuring out which shard was talking in the 2nd half epigraphs of Oathbringer. (Still haven't finished Oathbringer so no spoilers pls)

Again disappointing that she doesn't seem to be involved when her Shard might be the one with the most freedom. Interesting that she seems confident that she could take care of Rayse when Rayse himself already has multiple shard heads on his belt and the situation in Roshar is pretty gnarly considering that it was 2v1 and he still seemed to be winning even killing one.

Vasher is probably just there for her to spy on Roshar. Or she doesn't really care about why Vasher was there

 

Thanks for the replies !

Edited by goody153
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36 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Interesting that she seems confident that she could take care of Rayse when Rayse himself already has multiple shard heads on his belt and the situation in Roshar is pretty gnarly considering that it was 2v1 and he still seemed to be winning even killing one.

The Shard that regularly gifts visions of the future to people is confident about a future outcome. Edgli clearly sees something that we don't.

Additionally, there is a difference between "I'll deal with Rayse" and "Rayse will be dealt with"

53 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Again disappointing that she doesn't seem to be involved when her Shard might be the one with the most freedom.

That's Personal Conviction for you. Edgli truly believes that it's better for them to be separate, and she's sticking to it.

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2 hours ago, goody153 said:

Vasher is probably just there for her to spy on Roshar. Or she doesn't really care about why Vasher was there

I doubt she cares, and I doubt Vasher is there to spy for her. We get some remarks from him about how he detests his homeland, and a WoB that Vasher is on Roshar because he can feed off Stormlight.

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In addition to several WoBs that Vasher is on Roshar because it's easy for him to live off of Stormlight, there's one that I've somehow not seen until just recently where Brandon says that Vasher has essentially made the planet his retirement home, so it's entirely possible he has no ulterior motives for being on Roshar. Of course, that doesn't preclude Endowment from having some plan that Vasher isn't aware of (we have no clue whether the vision of the future that prompted him to Return has come to pass during his six hundred or so years of life or if it's still in the future) but Vasher himself doesn't seem to have any intentiion of doing anything on Roshar other than living quietly.

Quote

Questioner

With Vasher on Roshar, is he collecting more Breaths, or just burning through slowly what he has collected?

Brandon Sanderson

He can use Stormlight instead. That's why he came to Roshar.

Questioner

Did he come voluntarily?

Brandon Sanderson

He came voluntarily because he was tired of sucking souls. Roshar is where he decided to "retire."

Questioner

How many Breaths <does he have now>?

Brandon Sanderson

He has the same number that he left with. Which, there are clues to what level of Heightening he at least has, in the books.

source

 

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8 minutes ago, Random Reader said:

Does anyone know how Nale gets Nightblood?

Not yet, Hopefully it'll be covered in Nightblood, the novel that Brandon wants to write, someday.

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10 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

The Shard that regularly gifts visions of the future to people is confident about a future outcome. Edgli clearly sees something that we don't.

Additionally, there is a difference between "I'll deal with Rayse" and "Rayse will be dealt with"

That's Personal Conviction for you. Edgli truly believes that it's better for them to be separate, and she's sticking to it.

That makes sense but from her words she just seems legitimately not worried about the threats of Rayse and i'm she probably has an idea of her other peers getting murdered.

 

10 hours ago, RShara said:

I doubt she cares, and I doubt Vasher is there to spy for her. We get some remarks from him about how he detests his homeland, and a WoB that Vasher is on Roshar because he can feed off Stormlight.

 

I mean i know that Vasher was there to turn stormlight as an alternate for breaths but i wonder if Edgli did orchestrate the events leading Vasher ending up in Roshar(i know that shards can be pretty storming subtle even with little freedom judging from the events during mistborn trilogy) and we know that divine breaths are her splinter, right? Is it possible that she can at least gather information through Vasher's divine breath kinda. Or even better Nightblood is basically a giant splinter of endowment

 

And oh boy Vasher picked the worst time to pick a place for retirement. It's kinda like an action-movie plot lmao

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On 5/7/2018 at 9:20 PM, goody153 said:

I mean i know that Vasher was there to turn stormlight as an alternate for breaths but i wonder if Edgli did orchestrate the events leading Vasher ending up in Roshar(i know that shards can be pretty storming subtle even with little freedom judging from the events during mistborn trilogy) and we know that divine breaths are her splinter, right? Is it possible that she can at least gather information through Vasher's divine breath kinda. Or even better Nightblood is basically a giant splinter of endowment

It's possible, but I really think that Edgli (from what we know about her) has more of a nonintervention policy.  So many of the gods are meddlers - Autonomy and Odium are the biggest examples, and there are some gods like Preservation, Honor, Cultivation and Ruin who aren't cosmere-wide meddlers but still seem to be intensely involved with the events of their own world.  I think it would be really unique and different if Endowment was much less manipulative than the other gods, and generally unconcerned with the current chaos in the universe.  Her "Rayse will be dealt with" comment makes it seem like she is relaxing somewhere, keeping an eye on the problems of the cosmere but not losing sleep over them.  Hopefully this doesn't backfire and result in her being murdered by Rayse when she least expects it. 

It seems like Vasher, Nightblood and Vivenna are sort of "free agents" - I would be surprised it Edgli was involved with them at all.  Perhaps it is because of the fact that she is sort of an in-the-background god that they are able to Worldhop so easily.  

On 5/6/2018 at 10:30 AM, Weltall said:
Spoiler

 

 

I know Aona and Skai, but is Uli Da... Ambition?  I don't remember seeing that name before.  

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Yeah might be that she really doesn't care and if she ever was responsible for sending the 3 subtly to Roshar the 3 don't really know that they're sent by their shard. Or that she ever was spying through them in the first place cause Nightblood is around the most important characters of Roshar. And i wonder what reactions Cultivation and Odium would've had if they ever noticed a splinter of endowment are around some important individuals on Roshar

I googled Uli Da and apparently according to the cosmere wikia it is indeed Ambitions vessel.

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I think the confidence about Rayse is because Rayse himself is no more in his prime.

If Preservation- Ruin situation teaches is something is that the Vessel could be' hurt in the Shard's fight (something quite obvious when they Can be' killed too).

Rayse is more skilled now than he was when started his killing Shards Mission.

But he also battled so much and probably be' permanent wound over time.

I think Rayse is destined to failure regardless as Soon or later he would not keep going in his purpose

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8 hours ago, Yata said:

I think Rayse is destined to failure regardless as Soon or later he would not keep going in his purpose

Agreed. While I think Roshar will be destroyed (since anything else would be too close to what happened in Scadrial), I do think Odium will be taken out as well. Maybe we need to start looking for a new Bigbad for the back-half of the series. Our most obvious candidates are Autonomy (unlikely since Taldain isn't given literary form), Hoid (though unlikely since he gets his own books), or Ambition (who, while dead, has been hinted as being dangerous and who is associated with undeath magic).  

Cultivation would also make an interesting villain as she, finally unbridled by Honour, starts reaping the conscious races of the Cosmere in order to sew a newer, better race of beings. 

Edited by teknopathetic
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"If Rayse becomes an issue." Not when, if.

Edgli can express disappointment in those breaking the original deal all she wants, but I don't think she really cares too much about what they do unless they interfere with her territory. She appears to have absolute confidence in her ability to defend Nalthis, and I'm very curious to see where this goes. (This could also lead to some interesting conversations between her and Harmony if/when the MB Space Corp finds Nalthis)

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7 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

"If Rayse becomes an issue." Not when, if.

I don't think Edgli really cares too much about what they do unless they interfere with her territory. She appears to have absolute confidence in her ability to defend Nalthis, and I'm very curious to see where this goes. 

I wonder if Honour and Cultivation asked for aide, or if they thought they could win the fight by themselves? Let's assume Cultivation did convince Endowment, or even Harmony, to give aide, what would that even be? Awakened Soldiers in the physical realm? Cognitive Shadows in the Cognitive realm (as we know it is possible to serve again in the Cognitive realm)? New God Spren for Bondsmiths? Spiritual realm influence? God-metals?

Edited by teknopathetic
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2 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

I wonder if Honour and Cultivation asked for aide, or if they thought they could win the fight by themselves? Let's assume Cultivation did convince Endowment, or even Harmony, to give aide, what would that even be? Awakened Soldiers in the physical realm? Cognitive Shadows in the Cognitive realm (as we know it is possible to serve again in the Cognitive realm)? New God Spren for Bondsmiths? Spiritual realm influence? God-metals?

 

I don't think Honor and Cultivation really asked for help considering their shards intent. And them kinda just creating Odium prison similar to Preservation sounds like a sacrificial play or that they probably believe they could beat him in a 2v1 situation.

I haven't finished Oathbringer but i have a really strong hunch that the events that lead the fall of Honor to Odium actually have something to do with Cultivation(her shards intent doesn't put betrayal out of the question ) like if Ati is any indication being nkind means rust on the shardic intent. I don't think being a inlove with each other might've mattered to her eventually after a long time.

Depends on how much helps they'll do. If the other shards don't insert themselves maybe just similar style as trell is doing to Scadrial by sending agents inside and causing havoc probably hitting Odium from outside. Maybe if another shard enters the fray that shard might probably just insert themselves on the existing magic system in place.

 

10 hours ago, Yata said:

I think Rayse is destined to failure regardless as Soon or later he would not keep going in his purpose

It certainly feels that way but that would mean Hoid's warnings are a bit too hyped if Rayse doesn't really present that much threat which doesn't make much sense considering Hoid acts like the one of the endgame characters but yeah we don't know the other shards yet but autonomy seems the closest.

Honestly if Mistborn still hasn't happened then i would think that Ruin could've been the ultimate endgame antagonist for Cosmere. His intent fits perfectly and he's such an intimidating concept(intelligent decay) but since the shard is pretty much placated now thanks to Sazed.

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On 7.5.2018 at 3:20 PM, goody153 said:

Vasher is probably just there for her to spy on Roshar. Or she doesn't really care about why Vasher was there


Well, IMHO the history of the Five Scholars suggests some larger long-term purpose for their Returns. After all, as far as we know, none of them seems to have fulfilled their missions so far, despite abnormally long existences for ther kind. Also, at least 3 of them had visited Roshar and were inspired in some of their discoveries and inventions by their experiences on that world. Now Vasher is back on Roshar during a critical time of the final(?) inter-Shard struggle in the system and so is Nightblood, creation of which was a direct result of his and Shashara's previous sojourn there and their wish to re-create a shardblade with Awakening. Oh, and it seems like Nightblood is currently the only means of dealing with certain powerful minions of Odium permanently. Far too coincidental for my taste, if it is supposed to be wholly unconnected with Endowment.

Yes, yes, I know that there aren't going to be any major Cosmere cross-overs in SA. At the same time, if Vasher and Nightblood were supposed to be inconsequental cameos, why did Sanderson chose to write the whole prequel book establishing their backstory? Why did he make Vasher a Splinter of another Shard than the 3 in the Rosharan system? The Shard, which tends to deal with future dangers by creating human splinters and bestowing on them hidden pre-cognition of the moment when they could make a vital difference?

On 8.5.2018 at 6:22 AM, Llarimar said:

  I think it would be really unique and different if Endowment was much less manipulative than the other gods, and generally unconcerned with the current chaos in the universe. 

Endowment does actively steer evolution of nations on her world by sending the Returned, however. This is pretty hands-on, though somewhat indirect. Also, fairly recent in Shardic terms as of Warbreaker - IIRC Returns only started 600 years or so prior to the events in the novel.

Edited by Isilel
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  • Pagerunner changed the title to [OB] Regarding Endowment

Spoiler rule reminder. This one's a bit of a gray area, since OP has read part of OB and has included discussion of the parts they have read. I've added the [OB] tag to the title, rather than go through and edit in spoiler tags to all of these posts. But be considerate, as discussion continues, that OP has not finished the book yet.

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