[OB] Renarin and Adolin (healing wrist scene)

[Sun Maker]

I'm doing a re read of oathbringer. In the scene where renarin and adolin meet at the horse stables, Renarin tells adolin he wants to give away his dead shardblade. In the scene Adolin touches Renarin's hand and Adolins broken wrist is healed. While Adolin is being healed he says he sees the man he could be, a complete man. Is he just seeing himself healed and then being healed or is renarin giving him a glimpse into a possible future for Adolin?

[Llarimar he/him]

@Sun Maker I am trying to find this scene in Oathbringer, do you know the page or the chapter number?  I do vaguely remember this scene, and I remember at the time thinking that Adolin wanted to be free of the guilt he felt for killing Sadeas - if Adolin could tell everyone that he was the killer, he would feel like more of a complete man, less of a liar.  However I would have to reread the scene to be sure.  I'm not sure if Renarin can give people glimpses of their future, but that would be very interesting if he could.  

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

I think that scene is showing Adolin a glimpse into the spiritual realm. The image is too similar, imo, to how Nohadon describes the spiritual realm to Dalinar for it to be anything else. 

Quote

A pulse of Radiance washed through Adolin, and for an instant he saw himself perfected. A version of himself that was somehow complete and whole, the man he could be.

Quote

“All things exist in three realms, Dalinar,” Nohadon said. “The Physical: what you are now. The Cognitive: what you see yourself as being. The Spiritual: the perfect you, the person beyond pain, and error, and uncertainty.”

The question is how exactly he got this glimpse. Is it some kind of lightweaving? Is it another application of his future sight, which also involves the spiritual realm? Can he even replicate it willingly? 

[Naurock]

55 minutes ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I think that scene is showing Adolin a glimpse into the spiritual realm. The image is too similar, imo, to how Nohadon describes the spiritual realm to Dalinar for it to be anything else. 

The question is how exactly he got this glimpse. Is it some kind of lightweaving? Is it another application of his future sight, which also involves the spiritual realm? Can he even replicate it willingly? 

It seems very similar to Shallan's ability in WoR to augment her pictures for people or Elhokar in OB. Also, how she talked Gaz and crew into being better. Like she glimpsed into the Spiritual Realm for these people and brought it to them.

[EddyJ he/him]

Yeah, I think it’s an example of the way Lightweaving works for Truthwatchers. 

[Thunderclast]

I believe it is connected to the surge of Progression, as well as his bond with Glys that allows him to see the future. Progression is about growing into the perfected you, which is basically what happens when Renarin heals. He brings people closer to the perfected them, erasing the imperfections of their wounds.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Wouldn’t that just be the SR version of Adolin? I think Renarins powers made Adolin able to see his spiritual self.

[vikorr]

On 05/05/2018 at 10:17 PM, Thunderclast said:

I believe it is connected to the surge of Progression, as well as his bond with Glys that allows him to see the future. Progression is about growing into the perfected you, which is basically what happens when Renarin heals. He brings people closer to the perfected them, erasing the imperfections of their wounds.

Progression can go two ways - you could grow into a better you, or you could also go down the path of growing into the evil you. Possibilities for this path (they certainly havent gown down the 'perfection path' include Moash, Eshonai and Taravangian. All of those characters are fairly interesting.

Edited May 6, 2018 by vikorr
Additional comments

[Calderis he/him]

Since the preview chapters and first reading this scene, I've held to the same belief. 

This is not Lightweaving. This is Renarin's lack of experience with his surges. He pumped far more Stormlight than was necessary into that healing, and Adolin gained a glimpse of his spiritual self, the template from which the healing itself occurred. 

[MountainKing]

This might be his resonance or just spiritual illumination

[Weltall]

One wonders if Renarin's Resonance will be the same as an ordinary Truthwatcher, since his powers aren't quite the same and he was apparently unsure if Glys could even manifest as a Shardblade (reading Renarin's comment during that chapter with the benefit of hindsight). For what it's worth (ie, not much) Brandon has RAFO'd whether Renarin can use Illumination.

That said there's some reasonably compelling evidence that he can, since one of the recordings in the Gem Archive is from a Truthwatcher who implies that they also had visions of the future and thus in theory had bonded a 'corrupt' spren as well. They must have been able to pass for normal at a time when there were lots of Radiants and thus lots of people who knew what a Truthwatcher was supposed to be able to do. Particularly since the Radiants of old seemed really paranoid about spren touched by Sja-anat. For someone to be like Renarin at that time, they must have been able to avoid attracting suspicion and you'd think that a total inability to use one of the two Truthwatcher Surges would have been something of a red flag.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Weltall

[Song she/her]

2 hours ago, Weltall said:

One wonders if Renarin's Resonance will be the same as an ordinary Truthwatcher, since his powers aren't quite the same and he was apparently unsure if Glys could even manifest as a Shardblade (reading Renarin's comment during that chapter with the benefit of hindsight). For what it's worth (ie, not much) Brandon has RAFO'd whether Renarin can use Illumination.

That said there's some reasonably compelling evidence that he can, since one of the recordings in the Gem Archive is from a Truthwatcher who implies that they also had visions of the future and thus in theory had bonded a 'corrupt' spren as well. They must have been able to pass for normal at a time when there were lots of Radiants and thus lots of people who knew what a Truthwatcher was supposed to be able to do. Particularly since the Radiants of old seemed really paranoid about spren touched by Sja-anat. For someone to be like Renarin at that time, they must have been able to avoid attracting suspicion and you'd think that a total inability to use one of the two Truthwatcher Surges would have been something of a red flag.

I think the biggest bit of evidence that Renarin has illumination is the light he produced to 'kill' the thunderclast. Given that Ym's Spren tried to get him to do the same it seems likely to be truthwatcher illumination trick.

[Willshaping Crasher]

Actually, I had thought the entire passage was telling:

Quote

"Renarin looked to him, then smiled. A pulse of Radiance washed through Adolin, and for an instant he saw himself perfected. A version of himself that was somehow complete and whole, the man he could be.

CH 10 pg 115 (hardcover)

Capitalizing Radiance and pointing out Adolin does not feel complete suggests to me that he is "broken" enough to become a surgebinder.  This seemed to me to be a clue to his future development. However, many people feel differently.

[Sun Maker]

11 hours ago, Willshaping Crasher said:

Actually, I had thought the entire passage was telling:

Capitalizing Radiance and pointing out Adolin does not feel complete suggests to me that he is "broken" enough to become a surgebinder.  This seemed to me to be a clue to his future development. However, many people feel differently.

I completely agree. I understand where a lot of people are coming from hoping that adolin will be the non radiant hero of the bunch. I just dont think that will happen. I think the murder of sadeas will slowly break adolin more and more until he is ripe for a bond. then, he will revive his blade and become an edge dancer. I think

[StrikerEZ he/him]

On 5/8/2018 at 2:09 AM, Willshaping Crasher said:

Actually, I had thought the entire passage was telling:

Capitalizing Radiance and pointing out Adolin does not feel complete suggests to me that he is "broken" enough to become a surgebinder.  This seemed to me to be a clue to his future development. However, many people feel differently.

 

23 hours ago, Sun Maker said:

I completely agree. I understand where a lot of people are coming from hoping that adolin will be the non radiant hero of the bunch. I just dont think that will happen. I think the murder of sadeas will slowly break adolin more and more until he is ripe for a bond. then, he will revive his blade and become an edge dancer. I think

I do agree that Adolin becoming a Radiant would be really awesome and that he's probably "broken enough" to become a Radiant. However, I don't think it really takes that much to make someone broken to be a Radiant. Plus, the SR shows the perfect version of everyone, so of course Adolin looked perfected in there.

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

If only Renarin could duplicate that trick with Shallan then maybe she could integrate Veil and Brightness.

[Nymeros]

On 5/6/2018 at 11:00 PM, MountainKing said:

This might be his resonance or just spiritual illumination

Agreed. I think it's a manifestation of spiritual illumination and progression.

[Gasper he/him]

Maybe it is part of being a truthwatcher in general. Their resonance is what gives them their name, they allow people to see the truth about who they are and what they could be.

[Weltall]

I get the impression that their name comes more from their unusual 'See what is happening in the world' power, which lets them watch and know the truth, without it being filtered by others' perceptions or biases. And then you get Renarin and the nameless Truthwatcher from the Gem Archive who see the future instead of the present.

3 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

If only Renarin could duplicate that trick with Shallan then maybe she could integrate Veil and Brightness.

Only if Shallan sees her personas as something wrong with her that needs healing. Just like Kaladin's slave brands aren't healed when he uses Stormlight (or for an even closer example, his depression) and just like healing wouldn't work on Kaza because the magic wouldn't see anything wrong with her, Shallan's personas are part of her. If she can't 'heal' herself whenever she takes in Stormlight, it's not likely that someone using Progression on her would work any differently. She has to work it out herself.

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

I'm not necessarily talking about the healing aspect of the wrist grip. I'm speaking instead of the SR snapshot. If Shallan sees a perfect version of herself she might be able to imagine a version of herself that doesn't need Veil or Radient to cope with the traumatic experiences she has lived through.

[Weltall]

The problem is that's how Cosmere healing works. It alters your body to match your Spiritual ideal. In Shallan's case as in Kaladin's, there isn't anything wrong with her Spiritual self as far as the magic is concerned. And Shallan already got a similar 'vision' from Hoid (and a motivational speech to go with it) and it clearly didn't help her the way you're imagining it would, because she got even more lost in her personas during the climax of the book.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Weltall

[Gasper he/him]

1 hour ago, Weltall said:

I get the impression that their name comes more from their unusual 'See what is happening in the world' power, which lets them watch and know the truth, without it being filtered by others' perceptions or biases

I really like this idea, I think that the truthwatchers watch for truth. This gives credence to the idea that Renarin is a corrupted Truthwatcher because he does not see truth but a lie in his visions.

[animalia]

On 15/05/2018 at 3:16 AM, Gasper said:

Maybe it is part of being a truthwatcher in general. Their resonance is what gives them their name, they allow people to see the truth about who they are and what they could be.

To be fair Rensrin also saw that the city was one big fabrial so it’s possible he could do both.

 

On 15/05/2018 at 6:39 AM, Gasper said:

I really like this idea, I think that the truthwatchers watch for truth. This gives credence to the idea that Renarin is a corrupted Truthwatcher because he does not see truth but a lie in his visions.

Don’t forget that the future is in motion. I.e. the future CHANGES. What’s more it possible that he acted to change it without realizing it. When he gave his father the prod to seek out the Nightwatcher for example, it set in line a future where he wouldn’t fall to Odium. This is just my own speculation but I think that by accepting Jasnah being willing to kill him THAT is what made her be unable to go through with it. And it’s not even a deliberate manipulation. It’s just by being who he is.

Edited September 24, 2018 by animalia
Spelling.

[Solarserpent]

Its probably the unique twist on Progression that Truthwatchers have vs Edgedancers' progression skill. Truthwatchers might be able to help heal the soul as well as body (insight being their thing).