Physical and Mechanical Investiture Access?

[ReadAndFindOut]

In the Coppermind article on Investiture, it says "Methods of accessing Investiture can be broadly divided into two types: physical and mechanical," but it doesn't expound on that. So what does that mean? What magic systems are physical and what are mechanical?

[Zelly]

56 minutes ago, RShara said:

a device

I think this is the simplest explanation of the two.  Physical/organic is done directly by a person, mechanical with an external device.  It's flying by one's own power vs flying via rocket boots.

Hmmm Hemalurgy and souforging are weird.  They're both technically external, but then become the person.....I guess they're both.  When invested but not in use they're mechanical, when used on a person they become physical as it's the person using them?

[RShara she/her]

LOL I answered you on reddit too.  Fabrials and Honorblades, Medallions, and airships, off the top of my head, are mechanical means of accessing investiture.  Investiture done by people would be the physical kind.

That might be phrased poorly.  Perhaps organic and mechanical would be a better way to put it.

[ReadAndFindOut]

So if a person is using investiture without the aid of an external tool, it's physical? Which would mean the vast majority of investiture use we've seen so far has been physical: Allomancy, Feruchemy, Awakening, AonDor, ChayShan, Dakhor, Surgebinding, and Sand Mastery.

Mechanical investiture use is channeled through something else, not through the actual user. Would that include Hemalurgy and Soulforging?

[RShara she/her]

I think the uses on Sel are kind of in between, because of the unique nature of Sel's environment.  Forgery and Aons are hard to define.  Like, once an Aon is written on a piece of metal or stone, anyone can activate it, right?  Like the Aons for light and opening doors and such?  And Forgery is even harder to say.  I think it slants toward the mechanical rather than the organic, but I can see it either way.

[Mr. Superficiality]

I would think it depends on what you define mechanical as, if mechanical is any machine or tool then yes it would be confusing. But if mechanical is strictly defined as using tools to use the Investure then AonDor, ChayShan and Dakhor would be the only  mechanical magic systems.Every other magic system is you utilizing the Inverture so then they would be organic.

[RShara she/her]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Superficiality said:

I would think it depends on what you define mechanical as, if mechanical is any machine or tool then yes it would be confusing. But if mechanical is strictly defined as using tools to use the Investure then AonDor, ChayShan and Dakhor would be the only  mechanical magic systems.Every other magic system is you utilizing the Inverture so then they would be organic.

Brandon considers fabrials and Honorblades as mechanical means of accessing investiture, though.

Quote

Darkness (paraphrased)

Right, so… is it easier for a Soulcaster to turn rock into smoke with a smokestone as opposed to a ruby?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

So… Soulcasting… is gonna really depend on whether you're using a soulcaster.

Darkness (paraphrased)

First is for a Soulcaster, second is for a Surgebinder.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

A Surgebinder is far less constrained than someone using a device accessing surges, right? A Knight Radiant is far less constrained than somebody using a mechanical means of accessing magic, and I would include Honorblades as a mechanical means of accessing a surge.

source

 

[RShara she/her]

Yeah.  Also, hmmmm I wonder, once a soulstamp is carved and set, can *anyone* use it to stamp the object?

[LadyLameness]

@RShara Extrapolating on that, once an Aon is set could anyone use it? For example could a normal human turn Aon Ien on and off? 

My instinctive reaction is “woah that would probably be super dangerous, so let’s hope not”. 

But we know some humans lived in Elantris and that seems extremely difficult if they’re unable to affect any Aon’s and have to wait for an Elantrian every time they have to interact with an Aon. 

So maybe? 

[Weltall]

1 hour ago, RShara said:

Yeah.  Also, hmmmm I wonder, once a soulstamp is carved and set, can *anyone* use it to stamp the object?

The plot of The Emperor's Soul wouldn't work very well if Ashravan needed Shai (or any specific Forger) to reapply his stamp. And he certainly didn't stamp himself the first time so we know at least two people were able to make that stamp work. It looks like anyone should be able to use a stamp once it's been finished.

[RShara she/her]

6 minutes ago, Weltall said:

The plot of The Emperor's Soul wouldn't work very well if Ashravan needed Shai (or any specific Forger) to reapply his stamp. And he certainly didn't stamp himself the first time so we know at least two people were able to make that stamp work. It looks like anyone should be able to use a stamp once it's been finished.

D'oh!  You're right.  Silly me. So yeah, Forgery would seem to be a mechanical means of accessing investiture, then.

Edited April 22, 2018 by RShara

[Yata he/him]

AonDor is organic. Only an Elantrian could activate an Son also a pre-written One.

Forgery is hard to define but I feel It would be' organic too. The effect is pre-packed and apply the stamp is Just a trigger for that. In that context Hemalurgy is the same as Forgery.

[RShara she/her]

11 minutes ago, Yata said:

AonDor is organic. Only an Elantrian could activate an Son also a pre-written One.

Forgery is hard to define but I feel It would be' organic too. The effect is pre-packed and apply the stamp is Just a trigger for that. In that context Hemalurgy is the same as Forgery.

But then what's the difference between, say, Forgery and Fabrials?  Because Brandon definitely defines fabrials as mechanical.

[Yata he/him]

23 hours ago, RShara said:

But then what's the difference between, say, Forgery and Fabrials?  Because Brandon definitely defines fabrials as mechanical.

I could see some Key differences:

- Intent: a Fabrial need someone to Active and wanting to use It, while the Stamp is already set and everybody will Press It on a surface would activate It (the same with an Hemalurgic Spike, once the Spike is done, if It casually hit the right bindpoint...It will work, Intent or not, of course you need Intent to made a Spike in the First Place).

- versatility: It's an extension of the previous but a mechanical power allows the user to put some decisions in the magic and how It will be' used. Stamps did not, the effect is pre-packed.

- limitations: the mechanical powers seems be' not as flexible as the organic ones...And once a stamp is done, there is no difference between who Will use it.

(This last point is very frail as Selish magic is all' about Precision instead of Will...so every Sel's magic works in the same way if you create the form in the same way)

Of course I could be' wrong but I think some of the differences are those.