Cultivations Real Name?!

[Stark he/him]

On 11/24/2016 at 8:25 AM, Ookla the Insipid said:

Maybe Reya was Ambition? /wildspeculation

Might make Stark's "Reya is Rayse's sister" theory more interesting if true.

I like this option as well.  That could make Reya's Tear the Star system where Ambition was finally Splintered.

 

Another option, still in the vein of Reya being related to Rayse, she is not one of the 16, but someone who was important to him who died before the shattering.  Her death marked him enough that his grief turned to rage, then to rage, and finally to hatred and drove him to take on Adonalsium's Hatred to seek some form of vengeance for her death.  Reya's tear was named for her by other's of the 16 who knew her before the shattering, as a memory for her, and the tear she would have shed, had she known what Rayse would become after being twisted by his own hatred and his shard? 

[Argent he/him]

9 minutes ago, thejopen27 said:

Yes, I mis-typed the first part, I'll go correct it. They only took the Tana part to more easily fit their Palindrome, They butcher most of the Herlads names to fit the Palindrome, why not Tanavast's. Many langauges shuffle back and forth the Th and T sounds in words e.g. Thomas.

It's not the "t" vs "th" that bothers me, it's the missing second half of Tanavast's name.

You might be correct, I won't discard your argument entirely, but it's just not something that's as clearly visible as the Vorin changes to the Heralds' names. 

[Zmann966 he/him]

On 11/28/2016 at 2:28 PM, Stark said:

I like this option as well.  That could make Reya's Tear the Star system where Ambition was finally Splintered.

 

Another option, still in the vein of Reya being related to Rayse, she is not one of the 16, but someone who was important to him who died before the shattering.  Her death marked him enough that his grief turned to rage, then to rage, and finally to hatred and drove him to take on Adonalsium's Hatred to seek some form of vengeance for her death.  Reya's tear was named for her by other's of the 16 who knew her before the shattering, as a memory for her, and the tear she would have shed, had she known what Rayse would become after being twisted by his own hatred and his shard? 

 Hoid's letter points towards Rayse having been "the most loathsome, crafty individual" [he] had ever met.
Makes me think that there was far more to Rayse than grief and anger before he took up the shard. If anything, Hoid calling someone "crafty" should signify that they would be quite clever and manipulative. (Which is amusing, if the Sixteen knew what the Shards would do to them, that a "crafty" person would take up a Shard that would warp him into hatred and really twist his propensity for anger... The most cunning of people usually suppress their emotions. Then again, it could have simply been a bid for power as "He holds the most frightening and terrible of all of the Shards.") "Crafty" rarely is the result or origin of "rage"

[Argent he/him]

34 minutes ago, Zmann966 said:

Which is amusing, if the Sixteen knew what the Shards would do to them, that a "crafty" person would take up a Shard that would warp him into hatred and really twist his propensity for anger

Unless the allocation of Shards to Vessels wasn't (entirely) planned - or even intentional. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

3 minutes ago, Argent said:

Unless the allocation of Shards to Vessels wasn't (entirely) planned - or even intentional. 

Certainly possible, but I don't think this is the case. If them taking the power wasn't planned, what could possibly be their motivation to commit deicide?

 

[Zmann966 he/him]

13 minutes ago, Argent said:

Unless the allocation of Shards to Vessels wasn't (entirely) planned - or even intentional. 

Too many references to the Shattering refer to it as a betrayal and the sensation of pre-meditated thought behind it. It could certainly be misleading, especially since it's so vague and we have so little at the moment.
There's also the chance that the shattering was intended but the Shard-distribution un-anticipated, but again, that's a bit convoluted. I want to take Okham's advice here and stick to linear reasoning. Either it was all pre-meditated and my question to Rayse's logic stands, or it was all accidental and we've been getting the elusive run around from Hoid and the rest of those "in the know."

EDIT On-Topic though: I actually had the thought when I got the notification of an upvote in this thread that Reya might have been Ambition, but alas always a bit late on the up take here. XD
My money is Cultivation's vessel or Ambition's vessel. Assuming astronomy works the same in the Cosmere as it does here, "Reya's Tear" could easily be Threnody or Threnody's star.

EDIT EDIT Take into mind that Ambition and Cultivation are fundamentally linked, by intent-standards. In order to Cultivate you must have ambition to accomplish something, similarly the best way to move with purpose towards an ambitious goal is to cultivate your resources for progress. It could easily be the Threnody system and "Cultivation's Tear" over it's loss.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Zmann966

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

Just because the Shattering was premeditated doesn't mean it can be assumed that the Sixteen could have accurately predicted what the fallout of the Shattering would be. We have WoB that Adonalsium could theoretically have splintered into other Shards than the 16 that actually resulted. I think its entirely likely that even if the Sixteen shattered Adonalsium with the explicit intention of taking his power and even divvying it up amongst themselves, that doesn't mean they had any certainty what Intents would result from the Shattering and who would get what.

I don't think its even a guarantee that the Sixteen had any idea that Intents would result from the Shattering at all, rather than just power to be distributed among themselves and used as they saw fit. And given that it takes time for a Shard's Intent to warp a Vessel's personality, they might not even have realized right away that there WERE now foreign Intents clouding their judgment and directing their actions, let alone what those specific Intents were. 

[Argent he/him]

25 minutes ago, Zmann966 said:

There's also the chance that the shattering was intended but the Shard-distribution un-anticipated, but again, that's a bit convoluted. I want to take Okham's advice here and stick to linear reasoning. Either it was all pre-meditated and my question to Rayse's logic stands, or it was all accidental and we've been getting the elusive run around from Hoid and the rest of those "in the know."

I disagree with the application of Occam's razor here. I am (at least partially) with @ROSHtaFARian2.0 here - the scenario where the original Vessels planned to and caused the Shattering, but didn't anticipate Adonalsium's power becoming obtainable is at least as likely as any other. In fact, the powers could've been forced upon them (a la the Fantastic Four).

[Zmann966 he/him]

22 minutes ago, Argent said:

I disagree with the application of Occam's razor here. I am (at least partially) with @ROSHtaFARian2.0 here - the scenario where the original Vessels planned to and caused the Shattering, but didn't anticipate Adonalsium's power becoming obtainable is at least as likely as any other. In fact, the powers could've been forced upon them (a la the Fantastic Four).

You don't kill God without wondering where that power will go... And you certainly wouldn't go through the effort of killing God without doing some research.

If the Sixteen are hapless victims of unanticipated Shardic power, then it follows that they were entirely ignorant. We have yet to get hints towards the cliched "so caught up in whether they could, never stopped to think if they should" cause for conflict, and with the hints dropped about pre-motivated betrayal, it would feel odd that a group that could orchestrate the death of God would be caught unaware by the consequences of such.

You you can keep your middle-theory, but I'm gonna polarize to the ends here. Full-Intent or Complete-Ignorance. Wanna make another wager?
EDIT what was our last wager again? Something to remind by December of 2020 right? It's on my calendar somewhere...
EDIT EDIT found it, it's Dec 31st, 2021 about Stormlight #5

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Zmann966

[DSC01 he/him]

7 hours ago, Argent said:

I disagree with the application of Occam's razor here. I am (at least partially) with @ROSHtaFARian2.0 here - the scenario where the original Vessels planned to and caused the Shattering, but didn't anticipate Adonalsium's power becoming obtainable is at least as likely as any other. In fact, the powers could've been forced upon them (a la the Fantastic Four).

I wouldn't say that it is necessarily at least as likely. It's still a very possible scenario, but Frost does say of Rayse in the second letter, "He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become." That implies that there was some degree of premeditation; although, one must concede that there are a lot of ways to interpret that. I may be just splitting hairs, here, but it seems that the implications are enough that we can say that it is a bit more likely that at least some of those involved in the Shattering anticipated the subsequent Ascension of the Vessels, even as we admit that it won't be a total shock for it eventually come out that the situation with the Shards was wholly unanticipated.

[Argent he/him]

15 hours ago, Zmann966 said:

You don't kill God without wondering where that power will go... And you certainly wouldn't go through the effort of killing God without doing some research.

If the Sixteen are hapless victims of unanticipated Shardic power, then it follows that they were entirely ignorant. We have yet to get hints towards the cliched "so caught up in whether they could, never stopped to think if they should" cause for conflict, and with the hints dropped about pre-motivated betrayal, it would feel odd that a group that could orchestrate the death of God would be caught unaware by the consequences of such.

You you can keep your middle-theory, but I'm gonna polarize to the ends here. Full-Intent or Complete-Ignorance. Wanna make another wager?
EDIT what was our last wager again? Something to remind by December of 2020 right? It's on my calendar somewhere...
EDIT EDIT found it, it's Dec 31st, 2021 about Stormlight #5

 

I think we just fundamentally disagree on how the Cosmere works, what's likely, and what isn't...

[thejopen27 he/him]

On 3/8/2014 at 4:38 PM, grinachu said:

So say I'm wrong: it's not Cultivation. Who else could it be?

 

My backup theory is that she was the person responsible for turning the Parshendi/Voidbringers into Parshmen. In a way she would be a parallel to Nohadon as a Non-Herald Radiant figure of importance. 

I think that may have been the Radiants themselves. That seems like something "For the Greater Good" that the Radiants might have done that would count as breaking the first Ideal.

The enslavement of the Parshmen was monstrous. It may have been necessary (or perceived to be necessary) but it was terrible and monstrous and clearly in violation of the first Ideal.

Edited December 2, 2016 by thejopen27