TheOneKEA Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Has anyone collected the entirety of the Second Letter yet? There are new mentions of Rayse by name and his murder of his fellow Shards, and a very blunt statement of his "godly hatred" and its separation from "the virtues that gave it context". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Because I just finished the book about an hour ago, and I don't know all the forum threads, I will just post it here. If nobody else has transferred it (to the Wiki?) in a couple of days, I will. I’ll address this letter to my “old friend,” as I have no idea what name you’re using currently. Have you given up on the gemstone, now that it is dead? And do you no longer hide behind the name of your old master? I am told that in your current incarnation you've taken a name that references what you presume to be one of your virtues. This is, I suspect, a little like a skunk naming itself for its stench. Now, look what you've made me say. You've always been able to bring out the most extreme in me, old friend. And I do still name you a friend, for all that you weary me. Yes, I’m disappointed. Perpetually, as you put it. Is not the destruction we have wrought enough? The worlds you now tread bear the touch and design of Adonalsium. Our interference so far has brought nothing but pain. My path has been chosen very deliberately. Yes, I agree with everything you have said about Rayse, including the severe danger he presents. However, it seems to me that all things have been set up for a purpose, and if we—as infants—stumble through the workshop, we risk exacerbating, not preventing, a problem. Rayse is captive. He cannot leave the system he now inhabits. His destructive potential is, therefore, inhibited. Whether this was Tanavast's design or not, millennia have passed without Rayse taking the life of another of the sixteen. While I mourn for the great suffering Rayse has caused, I do not believe we could hope for a better outcome than this. He bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become. I suspect that he is more a force than an individual now, despite your insistence to the contrary. That force is contained, and an equilibrium reached. You, however, have never been a force for equilibrium. You tow chaos behind you like a corpse dragged by one leg through the snow. Please, hearken to my plea. Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention. The cosmere itself may depend upon our restraint. Edited March 7, 2014 by Argent 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneKEA Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Thanks Argent! My immediate reaction is that Harmony or someone like him is writing this. It sounds like a naked plea to keep Odium leashed by whatever agreement it made with Honor and the risk that he could be loosed. The only thing that makes me think it isn't Harmony is that the author acts like he participated in the process by which Rayse assumed control of the Odium Shard, so unless Harmony's cognitive aspect has expanded further to include the cognitive remnants of Ati and Leras left on the Ruin and Preservation Shards, I doubt Harmony wrote this letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I don't see how it could be Harmony. Sazed/Harmony is relatively new on the Cosmere scene, and reassembled the shards of Preservation and Ruin, while the author of the letter heavily implies that he is one of the original sixteen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSelector Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Brandon has stated that the recipient of the First Letter (and presumably, the author of the second) is someone from the planet Yolen, where Dragonsteel takes place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Brandon has stated that the recipient of the First Letter (and presumably, the author of the second) is someone from the planet Yolen, where Dragonsteel takes place. Ah, so calling him an old lizard was probably not a joking epithet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 No, probably not. It may still just be theory, but the thought is that he is in fact a dragon of some sort from Dragonsteel. Those who ahve been lucky enough to read it may know more about that, though I myself have not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 No, probably not. It may still just be theory, but the thought is that he is in fact a dragon of some sort from Dragonsteel. Those who ahve been lucky enough to read it may know more about that, though I myself have not. It makes sense. I haven't read any of his unpublished works, alas, although I'd really like to! I don't think they're available anywhere...thus the unpublished part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) I believe it was confirmed that the recipient (of the first letter) is a dragon, and the author is Hoid. It makes much sense that the roles are reversed in the second one - and the recipient, at least, could easily be identified as Hoid. Edited March 7, 2014 by Argent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCQ Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I think this letter is addressed to Wit. 1) "I am told that in your current incarnation you've taken a name that references what you presume to be one of your virtues. This is, I suspect, a little like a skunk naming itself for its stench." from the letter 2)"Rayse is captive. He cannot leave the system he now inhabits. His destructive potential is, therefore, inhibited." Wit tells Dalinar that Dalinar shouldn't trust him and that their interest may not coincide. This may be why. 3) "Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention." Wit/Hoid definitely intervenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbauks he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 The letter also seems to imply that the original sixteen plus Hoid (and maybe more) were responsible for the shattering of Adonalsium. Also that Odium is still bound by the Oathpact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) The letter also seems to imply that the original sixteen plus Hoid (and maybe more) were responsible for the shattering of Adonalsium. Also that Odium is still bound by the Oathpact. It doesn't say that he is bound by the Oathpact. Only that he is trapped in his system and he hasn't killed another Shard in a very long time. It is likely, but unless it says it in cannon I don't trust Brandon not to flip something we think we know on our heads! EDIT: I also just realized the implications of this section for the broader Cosmere. Aona/Skai were thus slain "millennia" ago. We know that the Oathpact being broken by the 9 was also 4.5 millennia ago. Does this help us place the slaying Aona/Skai in the chronology at all? It also means that Hoid has been bopping about the Cosmere for a VERY LONG time. Also that Demoux and Galladon have been running around the cosmere for 300+ relative years, though perhaps not subjective years, depends on how world hopping actually works and if it does work in different ways. Edited March 7, 2014 by Green Hoodie Mistborn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbauks he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 It doesn't say that he is bound by the Oathpact. Only that he is trapped in his system and he hasn't killed another Shard in a very long time. It is likely, but unless it says it in cannon I don't trust Brandon not to flip something we think we know on our heads! EDIT: I also just realized the implications of this section for the broader Cosmere. Aona/Skai were thus slain "millennia" ago. We know that the Oathpact being broken by the 9 was also 4.5 millennia ago. Does this help us place the slaying Aona/Skai in the chronology at all? It also means that Hoid has been bopping about the Cosmere for a VERY LONG time. Also that Demoux and Galladon have been running around the cosmere for 300+ relative years, though perhaps not subjective years, depends on how world hopping actually works and if it does work in different ways. Don't have the source for it but i remember Brandon mentioning that traveling to different planets isn't instantaneous. Also Wit mentions that he doesn't always know when he will show up but that he ends up showing up during important events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Aona/Skai were thus slain "millennia" ago. We know that the Oathpact being broken by the 9 was also 4.5 millennia ago. Does this help us place the slaying Aona/Skai in the chronology at all? Does this allow us to date when Honor died? He must have died millennia ago as well. If so, why the visions now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Does this allow us to date when Honor died? He must have died millennia ago as well. If so, why the visions now? Its a big gap though... we know that he was around when the Heralds broke the oathpact and through the Recreance, but he still might have died over 1 millennia ago or more depending on when the Recreance happened. Agh, too many gaps in our knowledge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaring at the Survivor he/him Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 We should call this letter the "Radiant Letter" (or "Letter of Radiance") and the 'previous' Letter should be called the "Kings Letter" (or "Letter of Kings") 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowGlass Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 From Brandon's tweet archive (January 2011): spencerpanger Tue Jan 04 @BrandSanderson Cosmere question. Does Frost make any incognito appearences in any other books other than Dragonsteel? If so Book/chapter? BrandSanderson Tue Jan 04@spencerpanger He does not appear on screen in any published books, though he is referenced. He has a non-Interference policy. I haven't read Dragonsteel, but based on this, it's a safe bet that this "Frost" character is the one who sends this letter. As others have said it has also been confirmed that the recipient of the first letter is a dragon. Frost is a good name for a dragon, so I'd say it fits. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayden Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) Does this allow us to date when Honor died? He must have died millennia ago as well. If so, why the visions now? The visions seem to be a last ditched defence Honor could provide for his humans, he knew he was going to be killed so he left a time delayed message with the intent that it get to the right people at the right time. The Stormfather is a very powerful splinter of Honor and was given this charge. they would not have been much help before that I dont think, because he would have no idea when the final desolation would occur, warning too far in advance if like telling a child that they will die one day. After a while the urgency goes away once it becomes clear that one day could be any day. Add in a few thousand years and mankind would have forgotten all about it anyway. Edited March 8, 2014 by Cayden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midius Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 We should call this letter the "Radiant Letter" (or "Letter of Radiance") and the 'previous' Letter should be called the "Kings Letter" (or "Letter of Kings") I personally like to simply call them "The Letter" and "The Response" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneKEA Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) I haven't read Dragonsteel, but based on this, it's a safe bet that this "Frost" character is the one who sends this letter. As others have said it has also been confirmed that the recipient of the first letter is a dragon. Frost is a good name for a dragon, so I'd say it fits. What an interesting tidbit! It is certainly reasonable for a dragon to be named Frost; The Silmarillion has dragons that breathe ice instead of fire, and I would not be surprised if Brandon subverted another set of tropes with ice breathing dragons in Dragonsteel. Edited March 9, 2014 by TheOneKEA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scriptorian he/him Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I haven't read Dragonsteel, but based on this, it's a safe bet that this "Frost" character is the one who sends this letter. As others have said it has also been confirmed that the recipient of the first letter is a dragon. Frost is a good name for a dragon, so I'd say it fits. Having read Dragonsteel, but being bound by the Laws of the Forum, I don't know how much I can say about this. Just remember that a considerable amount of that story is outdated. While it is possible that Frost and the author of this letter are the same, he could be completely different than what is found in Dragonsteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 What an interesting tidbit! It is certainly reasonable for a dragon to be named Frost; The Silmarillion has dragons that breathe ice instead of fire, and I would not be surprised if Brandon subverted another set of tropes with ice breathing dragons in Dragonsteel. Not sure that's a subverted trope. Dragons coming in a bunch of varieties with different breath weapons has been standard in fantasy for 30-40 years (say hi D&D!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtaFARian2.0 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Another interesting implication to me is that the Shard on Ashyn (the one who seeks only to hide and survive) is able to hide from Odium, despite being so close to Roshar. Being stuck in the Roshar system wouldn't prohibit Odium from visiting Ashyn if he felt he had reason to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneKEA Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Not sure that's a subverted trope. Dragons coming in a bunch of varieties with different breath weapons has been standard in fantasy for 30-40 years (say hi D&D!) True, but I would expect that people who aren't familiar with those types of characters but still fans of fantasy series like The Dragonriders of Pern would read a segment about a dragon breathing ice and think "Our Dragons Are Different!" Edited March 9, 2014 by TheOneKEA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Where can one read dragonsteel?? or even a little clip? I read a little of LOP please help a brother out?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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