Shallan's Relationship

[Bobobagins]

I think Shallan would not confide to Adolin even when he was the one who was stuck in the chasm with her...I think Shallan was able to confide in Kaladin because she thinks Kaladin could understand her better since they both have a terrible past. She confided more to Kaladin because she knew that Kaladin would never judge her or see her differently for killing her father...

This seems to be a common opinion and one that seems to make the most sense Adolin all through the series so far has demonstraighted a lack of compassion for those of the lower casts even Kaladin. It took what two or three life saving situations where Kaladin pulled his chull out of the fire for him to acknowledge him. Even then when he was in a cell protesting Kaladins imprisonment he lived in luxury in his cell with servants and still in communication with Shallan.... He really hasn't EVER learned the meaning of suffering or compassion and even at the end of Wor just before he murdered Sadias in a cold rage he's having second thoughts about his relationship with Shallan. now he knows she's a radiant and not just some ornament he's contemplating his place in the relationship since now as he put it she's one of the most important people in the world the fact that that's how he thinks tells you that he's uncoftable with his place in the relationship being flipped imagine his reaction to her past... Combine that to the way he reacted to Sadias and his handling of the situation hmmmmm not very promising.

Relationship...... DOOMED DOOOOOOOMED I SAY¡!!!!!!

Edited March 9, 2014 by arcmourn

[dhazellouise she/her]

She started talking about what it was to be broken first. Though I admit since I've read the scene only once, I've probably missed some things and don't recall it perfectly. I'll reread it and if I think differently, I will edit my previous posts.

 

Yeah, but that was before Shallan started confiding in Kaladin. They started talking about each other's past when they were stuck inside the cave-like structure during the highstorm.

[Paradox he/him]

And then they both fell asleep! Of all things they could have done during the highstorm I was not expecting that at all. Especially from Shallan, who has likely never been cuaght outside in a highstorm in her life unlike Kaladin who has more than once.

 

I was expecting more of a companionable silence for most of the highstorm since you know, its ****loud and throws around boulders and rust and they were in a cubbyhole 50 damnation feet in the air.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Paradox

[dhazellouise she/her]

And then they both fell asleep! Of all things they could have done during the highstorm I was not expecting that at all. Especially from Shallan, who has likely never been cuaght outside in a highstorm in her life unlike Kaladin who has more than once.

 

LOL. Yeah...ahaha...They probably both felt tired...but I think Shallan fell asleep because she subconsciously accepted that she could trust Kaladin and she felt safe already in Kaladin's arms?...ahaha...

[Numb]

Well when you burning stormlight to stay awake/move then you find yourself in safety without stormlight I think the exhaustion would cause the body to sleep regardless of situation. 

[Mr Horrible]

She didn't know anything about Kaladin's past when she confided with him. 

 

Eh, she could see Kaladin had a big chip on his shoulder regarding lighteyes, when she mentioned it he claimed she didn't know what it was like to have been through some of the things in his past (or words to that effect), Shallan then wordlessly showed that she did. Kaladin picks up on it and you would have to assume Shallan knows that Kaladin gets the gist of her past.

 

Basically they both knew the other had something horrible in their past before they confided in each other.

[Aleksiel]

Eh, she could see Kaladin had a big chip on his shoulder regarding lighteyes, when she mentioned it he claimed she didn't know what it was like to have been through some of the things in his past (or words to that effect), Shallan then wordlessly showed that she did. Kaladin picks up on it and you would have to assume Shallan knows that Kaladin gets the gist of her past.

 

Basically they both knew the other had something horrible in their past before they confided in each other.

 

Yes, this is chronologically wrong and I've edited that post.

[Mr Horrible]

Eh yeah, sorry my point was that I really doubt Shallan would have confided in someone who wasn't broken in a similar way to she was/is/whatever. From what appears to be written there, I don't think Adolin would have been able to recognize exactly what Shallan's expression entailed and the fact that Kaladin did was what really caused Shallan to talk about her past.

 

There was also the issue of her trying to understand Kaladin or get him to stop being angry at all lighteyes which would have been a factor.

[Aleksiel]

Eh yeah, sorry my point was that I really doubt Shallan would have confided in someone who wasn't broken in a similar way to she was/is/whatever. From what appears to be written there, I don't think Adolin would have been able to recognize exactly what Shallan's expression entailed and the fact that Kaladin did was what really caused Shallan to talk about her past.

 

There was also the issue of her trying to understand Kaladin or get him to stop being angry at all lighteyes which would have been a factor.

 

I agree with you. I am rereading the scene as suggested to avoid more chronological mistakes.

 

Adolin was probably a poor example on my part, perhaps Teft would have been better. My main idea resolves around the point that Shallan's revelation was more due to the shared experience in the chasms with someone who also knows pain as she does, rather something limited strictly and only to Kaladin. However, I haven't finished my reread on the scene so I might as well be wrong.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Aleksiel

[dhazellouise she/her]

I voted for Shallan/Kaladin....

Actually, I would never have thought that I would ship this pairing but after reading Words of Radiance. Well, I changed my mind. I really love their banter and their time at the chasm. At first, I like the idea of Shallan/Adolin even when the Words of Radiance haven't come out yet. I like Adolin at first because he is handsome, a famous duelist. a shardbearer, a royal blood and a lot of girls love him. (I know. I'm kinda superficial too? ahaha...But what the hell! I really prefer that the female protagonist to have a terribly handsome love interest....but Kaladin will do for me as well..ahaha) I was already hoping for a Adolin/Shallan pairing...but as I started reading Words of Radiance...Well, I can say that I enjoyed reading the Shallan/Kaladin moments more than Shallan/Adolin...

Here are my opinions why Shallan/Kaladin shows more strongly in this book. It's just my opinion. You can start arguing about it but I still won't change my mind that I prefer Shallan/Kaladin in this book. I don't really mind who Shallan will end up in the future...It might be Szeth for all we know ahaha...but that would be interesting too..ahaha...Shallan and Szeth...I wonder what would that be like..ahaha...

Moving on. As I was saying, Shallan and Kaladin shows strongly in here. It has a lot of foreshadowing that I could almost feel like its gonna be inevitable.

I will start by saying that Shallan knows Adolin first before Kaladin. Shallan found out that she was bethrothed to Adolin through Jasnah. Shallan accepted it ecstatically because it could solve the financial problems that her family have attained through the years. I think she was pretty excited about it actually...but I can say that it was just an arrangment of convenience...But the way she expressed it was just...too shallow?...

----------------------

Chapter One (Santhid)

 

“Adolin Kholin,” Shallan said, listening with half an ear. “A duelist. A fantastic one. And even a Shardbearer.”

 

---
 

“I was—but I knew about your family before that. The Alethi are the center of society! Even girls from rural houses know the names of the Alethi princes.” And she’d be lying if she denied youthful daydreams of meeting one.

 

 

---

“Stormfather,” Shallan said, feeling her legs go weak. “He’s heir to a princedom! He’s in line to the throne of Alethkar itself!”

 

---------------------
While as I reread her reactions in Chapter one...I started to think that Shallan probably fell in love with the idea of falling in love with a prince. A prince that she had daydream of meeting and marrying. I strongly think that Shallan just felt that she loves Adolin just for the sake of loving him...or she loves him because he is just soooo Perfect for her. Her ideal Alethi Prince.


Like I said, foreshadowing...

Adolin might be the first person that Shallan knew about...but it was Kaladin that Shallan met first. It was also kinda...amusing that Shallan travelled the same way as Kaladin did. Shallan met the slaver Tvlakv and his two cronies Bluth and Tag. The samepeople that brought kaladin in the shattered plains. Shallan also travelled in the same cage where she saw the same scratch marks that Kaladin saw. And it only got more interesting, when Shallan met Gaz as well. It feels like Shallan was destined to really meet Kaladin first. But I also suspect that the spren must be the one who are trying hard for them to meet...The first time they meet, well..I can say it was hilarious especially when Shallan asked for Kaladin's boots. I don't know...She already travelled in the same way that Kaladin did in the past, and now she's walking in his boots? It feels like Shallan is going through an initiation or something...ahaha...

 

---------------

Chapter 28 (Boots)

 

The lead rider reined in his horse with some obvious annoyance. He didn’t seem in complete control of the beast. “Brightness,” he said, nodding to her as he saw her eyes. Shockingly, he was darkeyed, a tall man with black Alethi hair he wore down to his shoulders. He looked over Tyn, noting the sword and the soldier’s uniform, but let slip no reaction. A hard man, this one.

 

--------------

Anyway, Shallan met Kaladin first...then they meet again when Shallan arrived in the Shattered Plains.

--------------------------

Chapter 36 (A New Woman)
 

That was odd. And did that one man at the door look familiar? The tall darkeyed man with the blue coat that went down to his knees. The man with the shoulder-length hair, curling slightly . . . He was speaking in a low voice with another soldier, who was one of the men from the gates below.

 

“Looks like they beat us up here,” Vathah said softly.

 

The man turned and looked her right in the eyes, then glanced down toward her feet.

 

- -----------------------

They ended up arguing and insulting each other. Both lost their temper. ahaha...This was probably the first time that Shallan completely lost control of her temper with someone...ahaha


-------------------------------
Chapter 36 (A New Woman)

 

They glared at each other. Part of Shallan felt satisfaction at being able to make him lose his temper, though from the heat she felt in her face, she’d let go of hers as well. Jasnah would have been disappointed. How often had she tried to get Shallan to control her tongue? True wit was controlled wit. It shouldn’t be allowed to run free, any more than an arrow should be loosed in a random direction.

 

-------------------------------
When I read this scene the first time, I already started shipping them. This could be a potential love-hate relationship. LOL.

I can see in the future that they will argue a lot of times but they won't admit that they find each other attracted to one another...ahaha...


Let's talk about the first time when Shallan met Adolin


--------------------

Chapter 37 (A Matter of Perspective)

“There is another matter of some delicacy we must discuss, Brightlord,” Shallan said.They both turned toward Adolin, loitering nearby. He smiled.

 

And he did have a very nice smile.

When Jasnah had first explained the causal to her, Shallan’s interest had been completely abstract. Marriage into a powerful Alethi house? Allies for her brothers? Legitimacy, and a way to continue working with Jasnah for the salvation of the world?These had seemed like wonderful things.

Looking at Adolin’s grin, however, she didn’t consider any of those advantages. Her pains of speaking of Jasnah didn’t fade completely, but she found it much easier to ignore them when looking at him. She found herself blushing.

 

This, she thought, could be dangerous.

 

-------------------------
Rereading this scene again, well...I find myself thinking that Shallan became attracted to Adolin because he is very handsome...added with the fact that his smile makes her forget about things that are unpleasant to her...pretty convinient, isn't it?


------------------------

Chapter 37  (A Matter of Perspective)

 

“Funny. They say the same about me because of my hair.” She smiled at him. That seemed the right move, since he smiled back. Her verbal recovery hadn’t been the deftest of her career, but she couldn’t be doing too poorly, so long as he was smiling.

 

-------------------------
Shallan is attracted to Adolin at this point. But only superficially...its obvious of the way she became a scatter-brained girl every time he smiles at her...



Second time they meet...Inside the training ground.

It was Kaladin who first saw her when she entered the training ground.

-------------------------
Chapter 44 (One Form of Justice)

Still, he couldn’t help looking to see how they were. An accident here could be—
 

A woman was on the practice grounds. Not an ardent, but a true lighteyed woman, the one with the vibrant red hair. She had just wandered in, and was scanning the grounds.

 

-------------------------------

Kaladin would probably have started talking/ arguing with her if Adolin hadn't intercepted him.

------------
Chapter 44 (One Form of Justice)

 

He’d assumed the woman was an opportunist, but could she actually be an assassin? Kaladin picked up his practice sword and wandered toward her, passing Renarin, who was training in some of the same stances that Kaladin’s men were practicing.

As Kaladin walked toward Shallan, Adolin clanked up beside him in Shardplate.

 

-------------------------------------------

Another thing...

I don't know..I think Shallan purposely ignored Adolin in this chapter when she entered or she just didn't see him because of his armor on? hmn...but she noticed Kaladin even when he wasn't trying hard to get noticed.

------------------------

Still Chapter 44 (One Form of Justice)

 

Adolin reached Shallan, who—humming to herself—passed him right by without looking. Adolin raised a hand, mouth opened to speak, as he turned and watched her walk farther across the courtyard. Her eyes were on Nall, head ardent of the practice grounds.

Shallan bowed to her in reverence.

 

-----------

Shallan just noticed him later on
---------------
 

“That is . . . a subject of some consternation on my part,” Shallan said, taking the portfolio back. “Oh! Adolin. I didn’t notice you there. My, but you do loom when you wear that armor, don’t you?”

 

While she seems to have noticed Kaladin immediately...
--------------------
 

“Hmmm. Someone has a high opinion of himself. Comes with being royalty, I suppose. Like funny hats and a fondness for beheadings. Ah, and it’s our captain of the guard. Your boots are on the way to your barracks via courier.”

 

-----------------------
Anyway, I'm just comparing...and making a big a deal out of this scene? ahaha...

Like I said, foreshadowing...

To be continued...

I'm not done yet. I'm gonna post another long one later on...ahaha...
 

Edited March 9, 2014 by dhazellouise

[AerionBFII he/him]

I read the part where they sort of bonded in the chasm and i liked it

Read the bit where Kal sat on a rock and watched her ride away with a prince and he was happy for her i was like poor guy :')

Then when she thought how she liked Adolin but he was no Kaladin i was like-----OMG love triangle!

 

I think she will end up with Adolin and Kal might end up with somebody else if he doesn't end up doing a heroic sacrifice.

I think the relationship between Kal and Shallan was just suddenly deepened when they realized how broken they both were and how much they had in common. Then Kaladin stopped being "such a hateful man" and he stopped thinking of her as a spoiled lighteyes. 

 

 

We got another glimpse of this tarah! how long will you drag this on I'm dying to know!!

Edited March 9, 2014 by WEZ313

[straits]

I don't know if the poll reflects what people think will happen or what people want to see happen. I'd prefer to see a strong friendship between Shallan and Kaladin, and I doubt it will progress in a different direction. I'm curious about how Kaladin and Jasnah would interact, though. I imagine she'd wind him up harder than Shallan.

[Natans he/him]

One thing that are bothering me is that in the Highstorm cube scene, Kal and Shallan are hugging each other and Kaladin thinked that hugging Shallan are a very intimate moment, second only for to time he spent with Tarah.

Give the fact that they are boh embracing each other very closely (by need... or maybe not so much), a more personal moment probaly means that Tarah and Kal are lovers or something close.

I don't believe that Tarah are dead, Kaladin said that his failures with her aren't in this way, what made me wonder his failures could be that he refused to drop the army to stay with her, given the fact that Kaladin are grieving Tien death and try to better himself up to prevent futher deaths at time time this are a good enough possibility, for him refusing her aka his betray.

So Kadalin had a lover that he didn't marry for some reason and that are still in his head. If this is true it means Brandon are holding something up to use in the Kal love departament what put a serious wrench a Kal X Shallan shipping to me so much foreshadowing must have a reason.

Maybe tarah are death and her propose was to tough up Kal, in the same way that maybe Adolin will do with Shallan. But if i had to put my money in something i believe that Kal will have to emmend his past with Tarah before jumpin another relationship, what made Kal X Lan a less likely thing to happen.

Man Brandon sure like his plots thick with layers over layers over layers =)

Edited March 9, 2014 by Natans

[Seloun]

One thing that are bothering me is that in the Highstorm cube scene, Kal and Shallan are hugging each other and Kaladin thinked that hugging Shallan are a very intimate moment, second only for to time he spent with Tarah.

...

So Kadalin had a lover that he didn't marry for some reason and that are still in his head. If this is true it means Brandon are holding something up to use in the Kal love departament what put a serious wrench a Kal X Shallan shipping to me so much foreshadowing must have a reason.

Maybe tarah are death and her propose was to tough up Kal, in the same way that maybe Adolin will do with Shallan. But if i had to put my money in something i believe that Kal will have to emmend his past with Tarah before jumpin another relationship, what made Kal X Lan a less likely thing to happen.

 

The passage actually reads

 

 

With his hands around her waist, hers around him, it was as close as he’d held a woman since Tarah.

 

It doesn't really indicate that he was closer to Tarah than that (in particular, there's no 'second to').

 

That said, clearly Tarah is being set up for a future book and it's certainly possible they were lovers. However, the existence of such barriers are, from a meta perspective, a very strong indication that there will be a relationship. If there was no plan for it, why make a big deal of the obstacles? In other words, why is Kaladin's previous relationships a Thing if it doesn't create some kind of conflict? Now, it's certainly possible that the conflict with respect to Tarah might not be related to Shallan; however, given all of the other clues, it's probably a safe bet to assume it will be (more importantly, if it's for some other reason, it seems like it has to be due to a reason we cannot know about yet, and seeing the future is a thing of the Voidbringers).

 

As a side note, I noticed another contrast between Kaladin and Shallan:

 

 

Four days into the Weeping, and she still enjoyed the weather. Why did the soft sound of gentle rain make her feel more imaginative?

 

versus:

 

 

The Weeping was a bad time for him. Days spent trapped indoors. A perpetual gloom in the sky that seemed to affect him more than it did others, leaving him lethargic and uncaring.

 

and

 

 

He fought the rain. Did that make any sense? It seemed that the rain wanted him to stay inside , so he went out. The rain wanted him to give in to the despair, so he forced himself to think. Growing up, he’d had Tien to help lighten the gloom. Now, even thinking of Tien increased that gloom instead— though he couldn’t avoid it. The Weeping reminded him of his brother. Of laughter when the darkness threatened, of cheerful joy and carefree optimism.

 

In particular note that Tien had lightened the gloom - implying that the Weeping was always a gloomy time for him, and this particular instance is not simply due to his wound and Syl being gone. I seem to recall seeing this side of Kaladin on WoK; I don't remember if we saw Shallan's reaction to the Weeping. Question is if this is somehow related to their sprens or just contrast-cidence.

[Seerow]

edit: I'm beginning to think just using quotes breaks posts.

 

Anyway, in WoK the only weeping we saw was in Kaladin's flashback where he did show that same depressed side and Tien lightening him up. Since this is our first weeping in the current timeline, we don't get to see how Shallan reacts.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Seerow

[Natans he/him]

Tks for the quote my book are away from me when I posted this one.

But my point stand he said "it was as close as he’d held a woman since Tarah".

I understand this like "since Tarah" he hadn't be so close of any other woman. And he are veryyyyyy close of Shallan. And "It was as close" to me mean after Tarah (the threshold of maximun closeness)Shallan are the second one in terms of closeness. =)

Tarah (that by some odd chance mean salicious in my mother language) are the person that the used as paradigm, so most likely he was very intimate with her.

Said this i'm just guessing, I'm very suspicious of this kind of foreshadowing and you may be right =)

Edited March 10, 2014 by Natans

[FeatherWriter she/her]

 

On the topic of relationships I really want to see Brandon do a same-sex relationship with a viewpoint character. Mostly because fantasy authors really dance around the issue. Whenever a homosexual charater is present it is almost always with a minor non-viewpoint character who doesn't really speak and who's preferences are left ambiguous at best. If nothing else it would be interesing to see how Alethi and other societies view same-sex relationships and would help flesh out the Alethi, and other nation's, ideaologies.

 

Just something that came into my head as i read through the posts.

 

I'm kinda hoping to be suprised and for Shallan & Jasnah to become a thing. I think i will hold this hope in the back of my mind for as long as they both survive and up until the end of book 10 (or 5 if we don't see them in the second half).

 

Heeeeeeeeeeey there. Paradox, I like you. You are an awesome person with awesome taste. And you should join some of the queer SA ships because they are pretty much all awesome and there's too much het in this thread. (I even prefer het ships to queer ones, and there's still too much het in this thread.) *aggressively keeps throwning non-het ships at the thread in hopes that something sticks*

 

There are a few canon queer characters running about. You mentioned Alloy of Law, and Rannette is a lesbian, though she still needs a girlfriend. Drehy from Bridge 4 has been confirmed to be getting a boyfriend at some point down the line as well. My current pick for him is Lopen, because they would be cute and with as often as Lopen talks about Herdazian girls, it'd be fun to have a canon bi- character as well!

 

I totally agree that a main viewpoint character would be awesome though, even though I realize how unlikely it is. Doesn't stop people from shipping things though. It's awesome that you mentioned Shallan and Jasnah because the Shasnah ship is a pretty popular one and has been for years! I still don't know why Jasnah's not listed on the top poll thing. She really ought to be. Shasnah's been around far longer than either the Shalladin or Shadolin ships. Come on, you new shippers. Respect your elders. 

 

Kalarin (Kaladin/Renarin) was the main rival of the Shallarin (Shallan/Renarin) ship for the longest time -- but... I've kinda defected over to the Kalarin side, which means we're all allies now or something. Seriously though. Kalarin is the cutest thing ever and how did it take me so long to see this. I am a moron for fighting this for so long. After that joining Bridge 4 scene and all the excellent evidence for it... there is so much fodder for cuteness here. Let's be honest, I'll ship anything that involves people appreciating and taking care of Renarin.  

 

After all of the excellent Kaladin/Adolin interaction this book, I'm pretty sure the Kadolin ship is growing in popularity too. It was more of a background ship earlier, but it's become a fan favorite. They're just so delightfully bickery and petty and the way they move from actually rivals to super tight bros is perfect. Like, come on. Adolin stayed in prison for him. And then totally tried to play it off like he didn't. And they call each other "Bridgeboy" and "Princeling." Like, for crying out loud. Stop it you two. I can't even handle them.

 

So yeah, if you're looking to get away from all the Shalladin and Shadolin (and I suppose the Shallarin too) for a bit, there's quite a few people around who'll be right there with you. Hit me up, I'd love to talk and introduce you to the rest of the excellent shippy side of the fandom.

[TomR]

I don't know if the poll reflects what people think will happen or what people want to see happen.

 

I voted what I want to see happen (Shadolin). However, it's not like I don't see the ten billion* hints for Kaladin/Shallan. Which, now that I think about it, may be a pattern: I tend to root against whatever the obvious ship in a book is. Although, I usually don't mind too much when it actually happens.

 

*Because if I'm going to exaggerate about The Stormlight Archive, 10^10 seems like a good number  

[darkanimereal1]

Okay, I read through this whole thread because I really wanted to hear everyone's thoughts, and plus I wanted to make sure I wouldn't just be repeating things others had already beaten to death. It's probably a good thing that I read through it all (although it took forever ><)

 

Anyway,I think Seloun and Paradox probably both phrased my personal thoughts best. When I first started reading WoR and saw the first hints of Shalladin, I was pretty upset. First of all, it just didn't seem plausible, and I thought that it would be really forced. Second, I really didn't like the idea of the two main characters (so far ... I mean, books one and two are their books, after all) becoming a love interest. And third, their relationship really, REALLY reminded me of Elantris...

 

It just seems too reminiscent of Raoden and Sarene. What I mean by that is how they argue and banter. Don't get me wrong--they do it beautifully. But it just felt soooo similar to the scene where Raoden comes disguised and Sarene knicks his face. (Hell, we even have one of them "disguised" trying to fool the other--although Shallan really isn't fooling anyone.) I guess it just didn't feel unique, which was an odd feeling since Sanderson has some of the most unique characters, plots and worlds I've ever read.

 

Anyway, despite the fact that I felt it was very similar and all of my other ill-will toward the ship, I think I'm firmly on the Shalladin boat. Based on what we've seen so far (as everyone has pointed out), I really feel like their relationship is going to be huge.

 

Also, I feel the immense need to point out that, even though I'm fairly certain they will 'date' at some point, I'm perfectly fine if they don't 'wind up' together. I actually can see the two of them becoming very close friends who are there to support each other or, at the bare minimum, understand each other. And I think that would be amazing. That's the kind of friendship you strive to find at least once in a lifetime. So, either way, I'd be fairly happy.

 

However, from a ship standpoint, there were a few more minor things that I wanted to point out that I don't think were addressed quite yet. First and foremost, did anyone pick up on the horse comments? Please, please tell me someone did. Long before Kaladin and Shallan even met Sanderson was implying that they are very similar. There are two or three of these moments right up to when they first meet. At first I thought, "Uh oh. Is he hinting that they'll get together? ... No way. He wouldn't do that." After the second, I thought, "Please be a coincidence." (Note: It's now been almost a week since I read Part 1,and I can't remember the first two off the top of my head. And I am NOT rereading the first 300 pages to find them.) Anyway, and then this happened:

 

 

The brutes wandered about, stalking grass or lying down, snorting and whinnying. The entire place smelled strange to Kaladin. Not of dung, just . . . of horse. Kaladin eyed one eating nearby, just inside the wall. He didn't trust it; there was something too smart about horses. Proper beasts of burden like chulls were slow and docile. He'd ride a chull. A creature like this, though . . . who knew what it was thinking?

 

[hardcover p. 315]

 

Shallan found horses intimidating. The large brutish things weren't docile like chulls. Horses were always stomping about, snorting.

 

[hardcover p. 341]

 

 

Coincidence? I think not. They even use the same description words (snorting, docile) and comparisons of what a better animal should be like: chulls.

 

Second, I know that it's been brought up that Shallan and Kaladin's bickering isn't healthy. I have to say that I disagree. Their bickering at the beginning was unhealthy because they were both aiming to intentionally offend. However, that definitely changed over the course of the book into something much more affectionate. I think this is reinforced by the fact that quips are how Shallan shows her love to those who are most important to her: her brothers, in particular. I actually think that Shallan needs those quips. They're a fundamental part of who she is, even though she often uses them to try to cover up her true feelings (the much quoted scene where she waits for Adolin to throw another comeback and is then disappointed backs this idea up).

 

I think Adolin's "intelligence" is another factor that is important here. I use quotes because I agree with the people who have pointed out that Adolin isn't "dumb." He's very smart, and Shallan knows that (as she points out in the winehouse scene). Even so, it's not the scholarly type of intelligence that is so key to Shallan's relationships with others (think Jasnah, in particular). Someone earlier (I'm not going to go back now to look up who) interpreted the scene on the plateau where Adolin runs off as Adolin already understanding what Shallan was doing. I don't think that's the case. I think he's just not interested in that kind of stuff--scholarship, to be precise. He's very much like Dalinar with Navani--unless it can help him in battle, he doesn't pay it all that much attention (and I'm not going to get into a Dalinar/Navani discussion right now, just using it as an example). Anyway, I don't think that's what Shallan wants. Scholarship is one of the most important things in her life--it's what she wants to do with her life (I can totally relate to that). Do I think she could be happy with Adolin? Yeah, possibly. But I think that Kaladin could make her far happier because he would be genuinely interested in all of her research, not just the helpful battle tips.

 

And then there's this bit:

 

 

He snorted. "If you'd really wanted to see a chrysalis, you could have just had them tow one back for you. They have those chull sleds for the wounded; one of those might have worked. There was no need for you to come all the way out here yourself.

 

Blast. A solid argument. It was a good thing Adolin hadn't thought of that. The prince was wonderful, and he certainly wasn't stupid, but he was also . . . mentally direct.

 

This bridgeman was proving himself different. The way he watched her, the way he thought. Even, she realized, the way he spoke. He talked like an educated lighteyes.

 

[hardcover p 836]

 

 

She is openly admitting that he has a type of intelligence that Adolin doesn't have. She's not saying that one is "better" than the other. However, one of the two fits her a little better, I'd say.

 

In addition, (and this isn't the best argument, although it's something I noticed), the way the relationships start out, Shallan and Adolin at first appear to have the most in common: lighteyes, for one, as well as an interest in the war on the listeners and an attraction for one another. Shallan and Kaladin, on the other hand, seem to be opposites (especially in each others' eyes). However, as the book goes on, you realize that Shallan and Adolin actually have very little of substance in common with each other (which I think is a fundamental part of beginning a relationship), whereas Shallan and Kaladin are shown to have a startling number of things in common (even before the two meet each other).

 

Finally: 

 

 

He saw it in her eyes. The anguish, the frustration. The terrible nothing that clawed inside and sought to smother her. She knew. It was there, inside. She had been broken. 

 

Then she smiled. Oh, storms. She smiled anyways. 

 

It was the single most beautiful thing he'd seen in his entire life.

 

[hardcover p. 849]

 

First off, maybe it's just because I was reading this at 2am, but this was one of those dizzying, perfect moments. If your heart didn't melt at this scene, then it's probably as rock hard as a horneater's teeth. (Haha, excuse me for waxing dramatic.) Anyway, this is why I think Shalladin will work and Shadolin will not. Shallan and Adolin start off attracted to each other for their looks, and their relationship (thought it deepens) seems to still be hovering near that physical attraction level. Shallan and Kaladin, on the other hand, are attracted to each other only after seeing a glimmer of the other's "real" self--they're attracted to who that person actually is.

 

... Sorry this is so long. >> I didn't plan to make it this long, promise.

 

tl;dr: I'm voting Shalladin based on evidence in the book. And did no one else pick up on the storming horses? Please?

[Paradox he/him]

Well said darkanimereal,

 

I didn't actually notice the similarity with Raoden/Sarene and Shallan/Kaladin. I think it was party due to the quality of writing being so much higher and the dialouge of Kaladin and Shallan being so much more engaging and entertaining that Raoden and Sarene's. Not that Elantris wasn't a good book, The Stormlight Archive is just a massive step up that i find it harder to draw comparisons like that off the top of my head (I also only read Elantris once \o/).

 

On the horses bit. I am pretty damnation sure that the horse Kaladin first rides, the old slow one, is the same horse that Shallan uses when she leaves with the war party to go find Urithiru.

 

@FeatherWriter,

In most cases I would normally never 'ship' a homosexual couple. Hell i normally don't 'ship' anything at all, 'shipping' implies that you are going to argue for that pairing no matter the arguments against it. The pairings I go for aren't neccessarily the ones I wan't, but rather the ones that I think have the most chance of actually happning

 

That being said, for some reason I am feeling for Shallan/Jasnah what i can only describe as a kind of shipping fever. I don't think I will ever argue for it against the more sensible ships but I sure as hell will look for even the tiniest hints of it. Just on the off chance it actually happens. Then I would probably lose it.

 

I might have been reading far too much paranormal romance novels, it was about 50/50 het and les too. I think I have strayed down a very strange path O_O.

#StormlightArchiveWithdrawals

Edited March 10, 2014 by Paradox

[darkanimereal1]

On the horses bit. I am pretty damnation sure that the horse Kaladin first rides, the old slow one, is the same horse that Shallan uses when she leaves with the war party to go find Urithiru.

 

Ooh, I didn't notice that. I just went back to re-read it. Kaladin rides a brown mare named Spray who is 15 years old. There isn't much description of Shallan's horse. Kaladin describes it as brown, she describes it as a gelding, and Adolin tells her that her horse has a lot of experience being ridden. I'm not a big horse expert, but Wikipedia is telling me that a gelding is a castrated male horse. So that may not be the case =\ Would have been awesome, though.

[Seloun]

tl;dr: I'm voting Shalladin based on evidence in the book. And did no one else pick up on the storming horses? Please?

 

 

I actually completely missed that about the horses. Though I thought by the end of Kaladin's horse training session, he'd gotten over any equinophobia:

 

 

“You monster ,” Kaladin said. “You waited until I was relaxed, then threw me.” The horse snorted again, and Kaladin found himself laughing. Storms, but that had felt good! He couldn’t explain why, but the act of clinging for dear life to the thrashing animal had been truly exhilarating.

and

 

Natam watched him as he moved up. “That’s unfair, sir.”

“What I did with Dreamstorm?”

“No. The way you just ride like that. Seems so natural for you.” Didn’t feel that way.

 

While the latter still has Kaladin still skeptical, other people seem to think he's doing pretty well (admittedly, it's one of the other people who don't know how to ride).

 

During 'Boots', however, Shallan does seem to think Kaladin still isn't handling his horse very well (right before the quote about being intimidated by them) so I can see the resemblance. It's interesting but doesn't fit the other pattern (where they have exactly opposing perspectives); maybe this means spren don't care about horses...(re-reading 'Monsters', Syl rides by Kaladin on a spren-horse)

 

 

On the horses bit. I am pretty damnation sure that the horse Kaladin first rides, the old slow one, is the same horse that Shallan uses when she leaves with the war party to go find Urithiru.

 

I went looking for evidence on that:

 

 

Kaladin selected a beast that didn’t look too evil, a shorter horse with a shaggy mane and a brown coat.

and

 

Kaladin found himself standing up amid the bridgemen, despite the pain of his leg , as he noticed Adolin and Shallan riding past. He followed the pair with his eyes. Adolin, astride his thick-hooved Ryshadium, and Shallan on a more modestly sized brown animal.

 

which seemed promising, but:

 

 

“Spray might have been fast during her youth,” Adolin said, nodding at Kaladin’s mount , “but that was fifteen years ago. I’m surprised she’s still around, honestly, but she seems perfectly suited for training children. And bridgemen."

 

Shallan kicked her horse forward , eager. The gelding started to walk, placid despite Shallan’s prodding.

 

So probably not. It's too bad, because it would have been pretty hilarious given Adolin's comment.

[Paradox he/him]

Ah, damnation it! That definately would have been hilarious too. Ah well.

[darkanimereal1]

I actually completely missed that about the horses. Though I thought by the end of Kaladin's horse training session, he'd gotten over any equinophobia:

 

and

 

While the latter still has Kaladin still skeptical, other people seem to think he's doing pretty well (admittedly, it's one of the other people who don't know how to ride).

 

During 'Boots', however, Shallan does seem to think Kaladin still isn't handling his horse very well (right before the quote about being intimidated by them) so I can see the resemblance. It's interesting but doesn't fit the other pattern (where they have exactly opposing perspectives); maybe this means spren don't care about horses...(re-reading 'Monsters', Syl rides by Kaladin on a spren-horse)

 

Oh, another good point. I was so focused on the similarities of what they said that I forgot about how the chapter ended. =)

 

 

 

So probably not. It's too bad, because it would have been pretty hilarious given Adolin's comment.

 

I agree 100%. That would have been awesome.

 

EDIT: Oops, meant to add this and then forgot. I'm calling that at some point in the future Shallan is thinking to herself something along the lines of the "That was all right. She liked Adolin as he was. he was kind, noble, and genuine. It didn't matter that he wasn't brilliant or... or whatever else Kaladin was" and Pattern suddenly starts humming in appreciation. Good lie, yes?

Edited March 10, 2014 by FeatherWriter
Please don't double post! That's what the edit button is for!

[Bobobagins]

Chapter 77

 

(He grinned, Shardplate helm hanging from his saddle so as to not mess up his hair. She waited for him to add a quip to hers, but he didn’t.
That was all right. She liked Adolin as he was. He was kind, noble, and genuine. It didn’t matter that he wasn’t brilliant or . . . or whatever else Kaladin was. She couldn’t even define it. So there.
Passionate, with an intense, smoldering resolve. A leashed anger that he used, because he had dominated it. And a certain tempting arrogance. Not the haughty pride of a highlord. Instead, the secure, stable sense of determination that whispered that no matter who you were—or what you did—you could not hurt him. Could not change him.
He was. Like the wind and rocks were.
Shallan completely missed what Adolin said next. She blushed. “What was that?”
“I said that Sebarial has a carriage. You might want to travel with him.”
“Because I’m too delicate for riding?” Shallan said. “Did you miss that I walked back through the chasms in the middle of a highstorm?”)

 

This scene isnt the only one that plays out like this infact Adolen and shallan just simply seem not to mix one because she cant be genuine around him and adolin becuse he just seems to be to thick headed and self involved to catch on to the fact.

 

Chapter 89

(As Adolin walked the dark halls of Urithiru, he tried not to show how overwhelmed he felt. The world had just shifted, like a door on its hinges. A few days ago, his causal betrothal had been that of a powerful man to a relatively minor scion of a distant house. Now, Shallan might be the most important person in the world, and he was . . .
What was he?)

 

and as we see towards the end he finaly starts to think about there realtionship only thing is he's reconsidering it because now because he's feeling insucure about how he fits into it now...... ya

Edited March 10, 2014 by arcmourn