Paradox

law-abiding skybreakers. Are you seriously saying it wasn't against the law for szeth to murder hundreds upon hundreds of people. Many of whome were non-combatants. Remember WoK when he kills almost everybody at a feast. Come on how the **** is that law-abiding in anyway. You said it yourself, Adolin killing Sadeas one of the most corrupted characters in the book, a man who literally cause thousands of deaths, ruled Adolin out of being a skybreaker (WoB here). Now you are trying to say Szeth, a man who has done so much worse than Adolin, can be a skybreaker? I'm sorry you poeple are delusional.

Szeth isn't a Skybreaker. Syl specifically said that no spen would ever bond him. He just straight up doesn't have a spren, or even a sharblade. We also never see Nalan's 'skybreakers' infusing, leading me to believe that they are all just skybreaker wannabes. Remember the herals aren't radiants, they don't have a spren bond. The got thier powers from the Honorblades, and now you are trying to tell me that Nalan can just hand out spren willy nilly. Why would he be wanting to make more surgebinders where has been going around KILLING the ones he can find just for existing. I seriously don't get why people keep thinking that szeth is a skybreaker. He isn't a radiant, its quite plainly stated in the book that a spren would never, ever, ever bond him. As in he can't infuse, can't surgebind without the damnation honorblade.

Does it seem to anyone else that while there are a lot of votes coming in for Shallan and Adolin. Noone is really agruing for it in the thread all that much? Or is this just me?

I imagine then, that being able to surgebind, and doing it regularly. Like how Kaladin does (almost constantly if i recall) should at the very least increase lifespan quite a bit. due to the body repair while holding it I don't think that surgebinders would age whilst surgebinding.

See? I'm thinking that more and more this will be the likely outcome. There are only two reasons for keeping the fate of Heleran hidden from Shallan, either its brought up while Kaladin is away and it drives a wedge in now or its used after they become a thing. The first generates much less conflict between the two, given that whatever they have going on is in its infancy, and would make for much less character development. The second causing a much greater challange for the two of them to overcome, and could be a catalyst for even greater development of their characters. Specifically Shallan. Think what it would do to her to know that she is in love with her brother's killer. Perhaps she will come to think it is wrong to be in love with Kaladin with that knowledge. Perhaps the fact that she does still love Kaladin after knowing of this will be another truth for her advancement as a Lightweaver. Its all about dem character arcs baby.

In Wor we see the amazing healing capability of both the Growth surge (the Regrowth from Lift's interlude) and the passive healing ability given by holding stormlight. Indeed stormlight has been seen to heal the severed soul links from wounds cause by a shardblade, and to straight up regrow limbs. Given that stormlight seems to be all about repairing damage and regenerating cells. What happens to the aging process in surgebinders that frequently use stormlight. Think about it, old age is just the cells in the body being heavily damaged and degraded over time due to the enviroment and cell division. Based on what we have seen so far in WoK and WoR, it should be trivial for stormlight to heal any damage to the body caused by aging. The only way i can see stormlight as not granting extended life or immortality is if it heals by restoring the body to the state that one believes themself to truely be. For example, a surgebinder will still age becuase they think they should still be aging. As in if the effects of stormlight healing are closely tied to the cognitive realm. Penny for your thoughts (not really, I don't have any pennies).

@dhazellouise I really like your in depth posts about Shallan's relationships. But I find that after reading them I come to a different conclusion than you. While I agree that Kaladin and Shallan will be more or less friends, who are attracted to each other, the next book. I think they will progress beyond that to a proper relationship by the book's end. From the last two books in the Stormlight Archive it is apparent that the Great God Brandon is not a fan of beating around the bush about issues. He has nicely resolved most major conflicts that arise in a given book are also quite soundly resolved during that given book. take, for example, The coming out of the Radiants. Kaladin & Shallan only discovered what they could be at the end of WoK, and by the end of WoR the Radiants have been refounded (though there are only 4 of them + Jasnah & Lift). Similarly, Jasnah vanishes at the start of WoR and comes back at the end of it. See the pattern here? For this reason I think that should the Shallan/Kaladin relationship be on, it will be realised by the end of Stormlight Archive 3. I am a fan of Brandon's track record when it comes to resolving many major plot points in each book, yet still leaving some even bigger plot points for the next book to solve.

\o/ Praise be to gods of scheduling \o/. We must sacrifice virgi- bulls in thanks for thier kindness in pushing forward The Stormlight Archive 3. \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/

You can't be a holder of something you aren't actually holding... I can't say I am the holder of this book when, in fact, the book is actually not in my possesion. I could say I was the custodian of the book. From my understanding cosmere wise the 'holder' part of a Shard holder is taken very literally.

I am quite a fan of Character arcs as well, I don't really find it all that much fun to find out all the secrets (unless its Brandon's notes for the next few books) in the plot. But i do like finding out all the secrets about the characters, their motivations and beliefs. On that note. Shallan's character is almost completely defined by her, almost superhuman, ability to suppress signifigant events of her past. The fact that her character revolves around secrets, and thier proverbial darkness, makes the divulging of her past to Kaladin that much more signifigant. Even more so when you consider that she spends almost the entirety of the book running from her past. It is also worthwhile to note that by the end of the novel Adolin is beginning to question his place in world since the reveal of 'the four'. Including his place in the causal. He remarks internally that their positions before was that of a very Highly ranked Lighteyes and a Lighteyed lady from a very minor foreign noble house. But now Shallan is one of the most important people in the world, and that makes Adolin doubt his place. I don't think this kind of doubt is a healthy thing for their relationship. It would also seem to imply that Adolin is uncomfortable being around, or with, a woman who is in every way more powerful than he his. I wouldnt be suprised if he feels emasculated by the whole affair. I'm going to chalk that up to one more for Shallan/Kaladin and one more against Shallan/Adolin (and Adolin/Kaladin's friendship maybe). I find myself quite suprised that Adolin is getting so many votes. I wonder how many people voted for what they want and how many voted for that they think will happen.

I think the reason Odium is in the Rosharan system is because he is stuck there, as implied in the return letter epigraphs from WoR. From what i understand its WoB that Cultivation is alive, at least its pretty likely given he said the person who holds it still is. "Is Cultivation's holder still alive?", 'holder' is present tense people. I doubt she has since died after he said that. I am also pretty sure that the 'mother' that Whyndle refers too is Cultivation/Cultivation's holder.

Ah, damnation it! That definately would have been hilarious too. Ah well.

Well said darkanimereal, I didn't actually notice the similarity with Raoden/Sarene and Shallan/Kaladin. I think it was party due to the quality of writing being so much higher and the dialouge of Kaladin and Shallan being so much more engaging and entertaining that Raoden and Sarene's. Not that Elantris wasn't a good book, The Stormlight Archive is just a massive step up that i find it harder to draw comparisons like that off the top of my head (I also only read Elantris once \o/). On the horses bit. I am pretty damnation sure that the horse Kaladin first rides, the old slow one, is the same horse that Shallan uses when she leaves with the war party to go find Urithiru. @FeatherWriter, In most cases I would normally never 'ship' a homosexual couple. Hell i normally don't 'ship' anything at all, 'shipping' implies that you are going to argue for that pairing no matter the arguments against it. The pairings I go for aren't neccessarily the ones I wan't, but rather the ones that I think have the most chance of actually happning That being said, for some reason I am feeling for Shallan/Jasnah what i can only describe as a kind of shipping fever. I don't think I will ever argue for it against the more sensible ships but I sure as hell will look for even the tiniest hints of it. Just on the off chance it actually happens. Then I would probably lose it. I might have been reading far too much paranormal romance novels, it was about 50/50 het and les too. I think I have strayed down a very strange path O_O. #StormlightArchiveWithdrawals

And then they both fell asleep! Of all things they could have done during the highstorm I was not expecting that at all. Especially from Shallan, who has likely never been cuaght outside in a highstorm in her life unlike Kaladin who has more than once. I was expecting more of a companionable silence for most of the highstorm since you know, its ****loud and throws around boulders and rust and they were in a cubbyhole 50 damnation feet in the air.

I'm kinda hoping to be suprised and for Shallan & Jasnah to become a thing. I think i will hold this hope in the back of my mind for as long as they both survive and up until the end of book 10 (or 5 if we don't see them in the second half).

I get the feeling the Reshi don't really care about sexuality all that much. This could be a reason a bunch of people from the different Rosharan cultures join the Reshi Isles. I certainly agree that if Brandon ever touches on the subject it will be in the mistborn books to come, since they are set well into the future in terms of technology and cultural advancement.

On the topic of relationships I really want to see Brandon do a same-sex relationship with a viewpoint character. Mostly because fantasy authors really dance around the issue. Whenever a homosexual charater is present it is almost always with a minor non-viewpoint character who doesn't really speak and who's preferences are left ambiguous at best. If nothing else it would be interesing to see how Alethi and other societies view same-sex relationships and would help flesh out the Alethi, and other nation's, ideaologies. Just something that came into my head as i read through the posts.

I know I know. I was just making the point that Jasnah probably knows already as a bit of a tangent.

You are right about her not telling Jasnah about killing her father. but her first truth in WoK is saying that she killed her father. She says this under her breath in the presence of Jasnah when proving she can go to shadesmar. I wouldn't be suprised if either Jasnah heard it or her spren did and reported it to her.

I think that 2 shallow and immature people in a relationship would basically doom it from the start. How many do you know who dated in highschool, that you would describe as shallow and immature, are still in that same relationship. I can tell you my observations from my highschool in New Zealand. None, not a single one of those shallow and or immature people are still in a relationship together. I quite literally knew everybody in my year level's names and thier relationship status (there were like 200 of us) then and now. I know this doesn't mean much by itself but I think that you would find a similar, but probably not as extreme, trend across most of the late teens/early 20's in the world. That trend is that 2 immature people do not good, lasting and healthy relationships. especially with each other. Its also worth pointing out that I don't find Shallan shallow at all. But I find that her relationship with Adolin is most certainly Shallow.

The only problem i have with this is that Adolin was acting niether Brave nor obedient and was displaying the exact opposite of Love/Healing. Also known as Rage/Murder. Blood for the blood god! .

From what I understand Alethi society is all about Strength in battle = political power. In a literal sense that basically means Kaladin is the most important person in the country behind maybe Dalinar. Realistically, noone in the country other than the other Radiants can hope to challange him physically and thus if he confronts Roshone - assuming Roshone isn't insane - Roshone will rust himself. Roshone will likely fear invoking Kaladin's wrath, I would too even though I know Kaladin wont kill people who say mean things to him and are general assholes (3rd ideal and all that).

note: anyone know what the deal is with that error message when you hit quote? I think this is an important point in the Kaladin vs Adolin debate. Her reasons for not telling Adolin about her past and letting him through her usual facade to her more 'real' persona should more or less be the same in relation to telling these things to Kaladin. I fully agree that the reasons for her sharing more of herself with Kaladin than she has ever shared with anyone else, especially someone in Kaladin's position. I mean he could easily use this information against her for any number of nefarious deeds. She wouldn't have shared if she didn't have emotional investment in Kaladin and also believe he could be trusted not to share this with anyone else. I think at this point she is simply not as emotionally invested in Adolin as she is in Kaladin. Seloun says this better than I could hope to: "What's demonstrated in the narrative however is that Kaladin knows more about Shallan than any other character in the book barring Shallan herself and Pattern, and likewise Shallan knows more about Kaladin than anyone besides Syl and Kaladin himself.". The fact they already have that level of trust and acceptance of each other after having relatively little previous interaction (outside the chasm) is perhaps the biggest point in favour of their relationship outlasting Shallan & Adolin's by miles. Kaladin didn't even share his story of slavery with bridge 4, his best friends and companions through some of the worst times in his life. He just doesn't feel comfortable sharing his past with them, yet he so readily shares it with Shallan. Likewise for Shallan other than Jasnah. who doesn't know more about Shallan's other than she killed her father, he was abusive and that he was allied with the ghostbloods. Shallan has told literally noone about her true past, not even to herself for most of the book!. Also Seloun's last post said "One of these things is not like that other". That 'thing' is that she views Kaladin in completely differently than she views quite literally everyone else including Adolin and excluding Jasnah (probably... she was 'dead' for most of the book so we didn't really get to see thier budding friendship). @Seloun: I both love and hate you, I love you becuase you are making all the points i want to make. I hate you becuase you are making them better than I could hope to and I am petty like that.

After reading through the thread I am convinced that his next story arc will be about knowing when to 'let go'. What was it Lirin says? "Care, but know when to let go." or something to that effect. Personally I hope that Kaladin doesn't keep going at one oath a book, it would be interesting to see what would happen if he manages to say BOTH of the two remaining windrunner ideals in the same book. Heck even at the same time. I don't think this has much chance of happening at all, but it would certainly be cool (in terms of action) if it did.

Its not the fact that Adolin killed Sadeas that would disqualify him from being a KR but rather his mindset when carrying it out. Remember Odium is all about anger and rage. Adolin quite literally went into a murderous rage against Sadeas, sure killing him should be applauded I agree completely with that. What i don't agree with is the fact the Adolin basically killed him because he snapped and went batshit. That is most certainly NOT of Honor but is rather a good example of pro-Odium behaviour. That is what i think will disqualify him from being KR, at least for the time being. It could be he resolves his anger issues in the next book and does become a KR, I just dont think that his mindset when killing Sadeas was in any way correct for the KR orders.