Anniversary Game 4/Anonymous Game 1: A Fresh Start

[Amber Vulture]

6 hours ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

Sorry I was crazy busy today and was writing this up when I had to make dinner and just got back to it now sorry for the slow response @Amber Vulture

No worries, I’ve just had people pretend not to see my argument before, which can be rather infuriating. At least, I suspect that that has happened, I don’t know it conclusively. I’ve still made a habit of checking timestamps   

6 hours ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

I acknowledge you did make your suspicions known after the lynch... but that would be like if swan was an elim hey guys I knew he was an elim I totally would have voted for him.

The issue, traditionally, with people expressing agreement with a lynch after it pans out is that we don’t know how they’d respond were it not a successful lynch. We have no indication if they’d have supported the lynch when voting, or if they’re attempting to be credited retroactively. This same problem does not hold true for my vote, I’d argue, because I most certainly would not be trying to get credit for lynching a villager, regardless of my alignment, and I wouldn’t want to draw such attention to my purported machinations were I an eliminator 

6 hours ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

I more mean why didn't you raise your suspicions before the lynch like you did in the PM. Without you acknowledging it beforehand it feels like you were trying to nudge a large group of people a certain way and then after the mistake is made you will own it but not with a vote.

I was inactive for much of the day cycle, and I in fact didn’t recall having posted in it at all until another player sent me a link to my post. I just checked, and the first vote for Swan occurred 32 hours after my most recent post at that time. As I said in the PM, my suspicion was little more than a gut read, and I didn’t see the sense in derailing a lynch against an unlikely candidate who hadn’t even been voted on until the last minute. I’m also not entirely sure why, exactly, it matters when I “owned it”, given that whether I had expressed suspicion and voted or simply acknowledged my suspicion after, the result is the exact same. I have no justifiable reason to avoid the lynch and then say I would have lynched them, regardless of my own alignment. The only logical explanation that I can think of is the one that’s true: I was inactive and missed the vote, but didn’t want Beagle to be lynched for something I could see myself doing as village.

6 hours ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

Don't misunderstand me I did vote for my primary suspect Tuatara was my second choice.

Hm. I’m surprised to hear that, given the wording of your post earlier. You said you were “really very suspicious” of Tuatara, assuming I recall the wording correctly, but that you were voting on me anyways. You then explicitly said that your vote was subject to change because you “hate [lynching me]”, and that you just wanted to hear discussion about it, which I’d argue you’ve heard. Either you’re retroactively changing the level of suspicion you have for me or you were qualifying your suspicion much too heavily in your original post.  

6 hours ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

There is the added fact That I knew that by placing my vote this way I would get some feedback from Ivory, Which I have, and @Oxblood Beagle which I'm hoping he will still give me his read on you since PM's are down now.

Oxblood Beagle is active and, as he told me via PM, taking notes, so I’m sure he’d be happy to give his read on me with or without your vote. I really do think this justification feels more convenient than genuine 

6 hours ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

The important thing I am trying to avoid is a lack of discussion if we just willy nilly pick a person and no disagreement or discussion is had then we will lose and the elims will kill us all. To do that I think we need to ALL speak up about our primary suspicion, why they are our primary suspicion, and then consolidate the votes the second day to select the most likely choice. because there is such a large group of people if we don't do this then it will be easy to be misdirected to a villager.

I strongly agree that we should have dissenting voices, and I’m not saying you shouldn’t have accused your primary suspicion. I’m simply arguing that I  shouldn't be your primary suspicion  

I may be tunneling a bit much on this issue, but once again I’d stress the importance of telling people who your primary suspicion is in unambiguous terms, because it really did seem that you were attempting to qualify your suspicion of me in your post so as to distance yourself from the lynch

6 hours ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

Kharsis makes a valid point and frankly its my worst nightmare that somehow beagle is an elim.... cause if he is he has convinced me good.

This we can agree on, at least. I’ve defended Beagle in a number of my posts, and I hope he doesn’t prove to be an eliminator. If he is, though, it was extremely well played on his part

[Oxblood Beagle]

Luckily for you, I'm not this good at pretending to be village. And, for the record, I'm feeling Amber Vulture as a strong village. 

[Azure Mouse]

So, I can see the case for the Tuatara lynch. I don't disagree with the lynch, but I'm also not feeling it enough to put another vote on at this stage. Also, I appear to have missed Dragonfly's vote on Tuatara somehow. So the tally is:

Vulture(3): Penguin, Flamingo, Albatross
Beagle(1): Heron
Tuatara(6): Dragonfly, Beagle, Vulture, Scorpion, Elephant, Toucan
Flamingo(4): Gecko, Kangaroo, Tuatara, Zebra

So reading some people's post, I'm like Zebra's posts so far, though the more the merrier (though this might be hypocritical saying so. I'm trying though... D}:). And looking at Ostrich's posts, I agree with Zebra that I'd like to hear more from them. I think @Salmon Meerkat could do with posting some reads on players - as far as I can tell, their posts have been mostly summarizing things to have happened with not a lot of commentary who they think is village or not.  @Plum Rhinoceros It's been 3 days since you posted, and you've been online within the last 24 hours.

Anyway, I've got to go again. Haven't been able reread everyone's comments. I'll want to post readings on everyone, but don't think I'll be getting that typed up this cycle. We'll see. Of the main 3 lynch options, the amount of votes about reflects my suspicion of them - I think I'd go with a vote on Tuatara over Flamingo, and a vote on Flamingo over Vulture. I will be on prior to end of cycle this time, and I'll put a vote down then - the last few cycles have had stuff come up really late, I feel, so at the moment, I'm okay with the lynch but don't want to unnecessarily bandwagon, and I'll wait to put down a vote when it'll actually make a difference (the 2 vote lead seems a nice distance to be relatively safe from vote manipulation).

And I'm promising a list of reads next cycle. Definitely poke me if you think I'm forgetting it.

 

[Quartz Zebra]

The following people have not been online today:

@Emerald Falcon, @Indigo Weasel

The following people have been online today, but not posted:

@Plum Rhinoceros

 

The following people have posted today, but not voted:

@Azure Mouse, @Fuchsia Ostrich, @Mauve Crocodile, @Pearl Chameleon , @Salmon Meerkat, @Turquoise Gorilla, @Violet Axolotl

I encourage everyone to vote - more than a third of players haven't, which is worrying. If you're not caught up on the thread, I've linked the main arguments for why you should vote for any given player below (though I would much prefer, of course, for you to provide your own reasoning and analysis):

Onyx Flamingo:

Gecko's vote (why they voted on Gecko is near the bottom, but the whole post should definitely be read if you have the time this cycle):

My analysis of a particularly suspicious line by Flamingo:

Cream Tuatara:

Original vote and analysis by Dragonfly:

Analysis of Tuatara by Toucan (who later votes on Tuatara):

Vultures vote/analysis on Tuatara:

Amber Vulture:

Penguin's original vote:

 

Flamingo's vote on Vulture:

Vulture's response to these votes/accusations:

Please, I encourage everyone to read through the whole thread if able, or at least through the posts I linked, and try and vote for the candidate you're suspicious of. I think we need more players involved in the lynch if we want to be able to get to the bottom of this.

[Sunburst Toucan]

35 minutes ago, Quartz Zebra said:

Please, I encourage everyone to read through the whole thread if able, or at least through the posts I linked, and try and vote for the candidate you're suspicious of. I think we need more players involved in the lynch if we want to be able to get to the bottom of this.

"I wouldn't expect to be saying this a couple of days ago, but Zebra is right. We need everyone to be involved in this unfortunate business. I know that I'm not exactly one to talk, as I've been staying more to the sidelines in the previous days, but we need everyone's input to figure this out. Not just because someone might spot an important clue the rest of us missed, but because we can't figure out if someone is innocent or not if they keep quiet." Vanna raised her voice somewhat, making sure everyone could hear the next part.

"Now, it might seem like staying to the sidelines is a good idea if you're innocent, or want to make us believe you're innocent. After all, if you don't speak up you can't accidentally say something incriminating. However, we're going to reach a moment where being quiet stops being something that is ignored, and starts being something that is actively suspicious. So even if you don't have the time to keep a lot of notes and do a lot of analysis, at least look over the arguments given here and helpfully repeated by Zebra and decide which of these people you think is most suspicious. And once you've reached a conclusion, share it with us! Vote, and explain why you picked that person, even if the only thing you're saying is that you agreed with the argument provided by someone else it's better than nothing."

[Ivory Dragonfly]

Okay, that’s quite the lynch wagon on Flamingo. I will reiterate that I am almost 100% sure Flamingo is village, and that I don’t see much evidence against them. They role claimed to both Beagle and me and have spoken up about the lynch in the last few days, which I only see as a good thing. 

Meanwhile, my suspicion of Tuatara is compounding. They seem to be jumping on whatever lynch wagon will save them with no real explanation. Although that could be a desperate villager trying not to die. 

Zebra’s initial case for Ostrich is compelling, having gone back and reread it, but feels very similar to the Tuatara lynch in my mind, and since Tuatara is leading in votes I’d just be hurting my own cause to move it to Ostrich at this point. Meanwhile, I’d like those supporting a Flamingo lynch to further explain themselves.

Zebra, if you want I can post relevant snippets from the villager PM as to what happened and why the group quickly moved the lynch to Swan. However, I can confirm Flamingo’s account of events as correct, for now. The Swan lynch was done by PM.

[Indigo Weasel]

Oh Gods! You guys posting too much! It's good but I can't keep with all that... ahh...

Can someone, very generous, give me short explanation what is going on who is suspicious and reasons why this someone is suspicious?

Cause I doubt that I can push myself to read this all... I know it's only my problem that I very very lazy...

Edited January 21, 2018 by Indigo Weasel

[Mauve Crocodile]

2 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Oh Gods! You guys posting too much! It's good but I can't keep with all that... ahh...

Can someone, very generous, give me short explanation what is going on who is suspicious and reasons why this someone is suspicious?

Cause I doubt that I can push myself to read this all... I know it's only my problem that I very very lazy...

 Take a look at Zebra's most recent post.

[Quartz Zebra]

9 minutes ago, Ivory Dragonfly said:

Zebra, if you want I can post relevant snippets from the villager PM as to what happened and why the group quickly moved the lynch to Swan. However, I can confirm Flamingo’s account of events as correct, for now. The Swan lynch was done by PM.

Unfortunately, directly copy-pasting is not allowed, though if you want to paraphrase, that would be much appreciated. Also, you're saying this was a group PM? I would also appreciate it if I knew which players were in it (unless you have some reason why you might not want to reveal that.)

I think there's more of a case for Flamingo then you're letting on, though perhaps with the additional information presented in PM's you have a better read of them. Still, even if they are village, it will help influence my judgement on the others in this PM group, so I still think there's valuable information in their lynch either way, far more so than I see for Tuatara. Simply because they claimed a role doesn't mean they're automatically good, either - the Eliminators could fairly easily have any of the roles in this game except for Dustbringer, I think.

4 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Oh Gods! You guys posting to much! It's good but I can't keep with all that... ahh...

Can someone, very generous, give me short explanation what is going on who is suspicious and reasons why this someone is suspicious?

Cause I doubt that I can push myself to read this all... I know it's only my problem that I very very lazy...

I made a post earlier on this page with links to the relevant arguments for the major candidates. I recommend you read that. ...And I've been ninja'd by Crocodile.

[Mauve Crocodile]

I am going to agree with Gecko for why they voted on Flamingo. I agree that we should still be keeping an eye on Beagle for the whole vote thing (sorry that I keep bringing it up, just sudden band wagons are suspicious), and how closely Flamingo and Beagle have been working together should soft clear Beagle, and if Flamingo is an Elim than we can take a look at Beagle. I think that we still have a bit of room to try and find information, and the chance of finding two Elims in one vote seems like it would be useful.

[Oxblood Beagle]

I sense a vote to save Tuatara, and I'm getting uber suspicious. Very, VERY suspicious. This vote has become close enough that the elims could manipulate it. I am really sure of Flamingos villagerness, and this counterwagon is off to me. 

[Quartz Zebra]

6 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

I sense a vote to save Tuatara, and I'm getting uber suspicious. Very, VERY suspicious. This vote has become close enough that the elims could manipulate it. I am really sure of Flamingos villagerness, and this counterwagon is off to me. 

Interesting. When you support a late bandwagon, it's not suspicious at all, but when you don't support it, it's very suspicious. Just saying...

[Sage Kangaroo]

1 hour ago, Ivory Dragonfly said:

Okay, that’s quite the lynch wagon on Flamingo. I will reiterate that I am almost 100% sure Flamingo is village, and that I don’t see much evidence against them. They role claimed to both Beagle and me and have spoken up about the lynch in the last few days, which I only see as a good thing. 

Meanwhile, my suspicion of Tuatara is compounding. They seem to be jumping on whatever lynch wagon will save them with no real explanation. Although that could be a desperate villager trying not to die. 

Zebra’s initial case for Ostrich is compelling, having gone back and reread it, but feels very similar to the Tuatara lynch in my mind, and since Tuatara is leading in votes I’d just be hurting my own cause to move it to Ostrich at this point. Meanwhile, I’d like those supporting a Flamingo lynch to further explain themselves.

Zebra, if you want I can post relevant snippets from the villager PM as to what happened and why the group quickly moved the lynch to Swan. However, I can confirm Flamingo’s account of events as correct, for now. The Swan lynch was done by PM.

Tuatara looks very village to me.  They really do just look like a bad villager.  (Sorry Tuatara.)  It's not uncommon to jump around when trying to save yourself.  Besides, several people have posted suspicions of Flamingo.  I personally think it's odd that they went from attacking Beagle to adamantly defending and siding with him, and their voting pattern seems a little bit arbitrary as well.  Also, I think that their lynch will give us a good deal of information.  There is a little bit of a wagon, but most of the people voting for Flamingo have cited some reason or another, and all the reasons all look pretty good to me. (Besides Tuatara's.  They just look frightened.)

As far as the PM goes, I also wouldn't mind some snippets from that.  Someone saying that there was such a PM would normally concern me, as it could also either be a cover for Elim communications, or an attempt by Elims to manipulate villagers, but the fact that it's you saying it makes me think it was probably a real thing.

39 minutes ago, Quartz Zebra said:

Interesting. When you support a late bandwagon, it's not suspicious at all, but when you don't support it, it's very suspicious. Just saying...

I can't help but agree.   See: My suspicions of Beagle.  

[Indigo Weasel]

Hmm... I had read through some accusations and honestly I don't see Tuatara as elim, also accusations on Vulture looking flimsy as hell I don't see nothing special that can mean that Vulture is elim.

Beagle and Flamingo looks like best targets for lynch for me right now.

Flamingo still voting for people based on really weak suspicions, I know that we don't have any good evidence against someone but cases against people on which Flamingo voted is even weaker than just weak. Problem with Flamingo it that I don't know if he\she is new player or not, if Flamingo new player then I can understand his\her behavior, but if Flamingo lied to me about being new player than, well, I think that Flamingo can be elim. 

Beagle, yes he is very active and encouraging discussion and bla blah blah. And I don't think that there much evidence against him but not lynching him cause he active and we "probably" can get information about Beagle's alignment from Flamingo lynch is foolish. Elims sometimes protecting villagers just to gain trust, why that can't be so in our case, just look, we lynching Flamingo and see that he\she is villager, I'm sure that it will delay Beagle's lynch atleast for couple cycles. Also good players on elims easily can be in center of discussion as someone already pointed, maybe that's putting them in vulnerable position but in same time by that they getting chance to direct village, they gaining trust. 

So... I don't know. I purely don't have any evidence against Beagle just my baseless guesses that he can be one of those active elim player. But I also don't see other players who stand out for me(except Flamingo).

[Oxblood Beagle]

 

1 hour ago, Quartz Zebra said:

Interesting. When you support a late bandwagon, it's not suspicious at all, but when you don't support it, it's very suspicious. Just saying...

The difference is I know I'm village, and I was almost sure of the villageness of all people involved in the last lynch. Also, as I've said multiple times, the only reason we turned on Swan is because of what Axolotl posted. Otherwise, I'm very much against that kind of thing.

I'm also going to share my somewhat crackpot theory, which there is a reason I haven't shared it before. Essentially, i see the possibility that all the lizards are eliminators. 

The whole reason Tuatara is suspicious is because of how little they've said, right until they get accused. 

Onyx is village because when he was going to die, he entrusted his notes to me through PM. Would an eliminator really bother to take the time to do that? Would they honestly? 

Honestly I was waiting for someone to defend Tuatara, because eliminators don't want their teammates to die. Yes, i know what I did yesterday, but in context of my trust of Onyx, and my suspicion of Swan, what else was I supposed to do? Let a definite villager die? No. 

[Quartz Zebra]

1 minute ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

The difference is I know I'm village, and I was almost sure of the villageness of all people involved in the last lynch. Also, as I've said multiple times, the only reason we turned on Swan is because of what Axolotl posted. Otherwise, I'm very much against that kind of thing.

I'm also going to share my somewhat crackpot theory, which there is a reason I haven't shared it before. Essentially, i see the possibility that all the lizards are eliminators. 

The whole reason Tuatara is suspicious is because of how little they've said, right until they get accused. 

Onyx is village because when he was going to die, he entrusted his notes to me through PM. Would an eliminator really bother to take the time to do that? Would they honestly? 

Honestly I was waiting for someone to defend Tuatara, because eliminators don't want their teammates to die. Yes, i know what I did yesterday, but in context of my trust of Onyx, and my suspicion of Swan, what else was I supposed to do? Let a definite villager die? No. 

Well, I know I'm village...

And the big problem is - this all happened through PM's, and we only have your word for it happening. If Onyx does turn out to be an Eliminator, there's a very good probability you are too. With the notes thing - has this been mentioned before now - I feel like there are constantly new details being added to the story of what happened in this PM, which means I have to take news of what allegedly happened with a grain of salt. (Have you mentioned the fact that Flamingo shared notes in the PM before just now? That would make me more likely to trust that story.)

And why share these notes just within the PM, and not with the whole thread? Was there really anything in those notes that couldn't be shared? For that matter, why couldn't your defense of Flamingo that you presented in PM's be made to the thread, apart from the fact that you don't really seem to have any evidence for your defense except for a gut read? (And Dragonfly has already said that Flamingo claimed in the PM - I still believe my point stands. Pretty much any role (except perhaps the Dustbringer) could easily be an Eliminator role, so claiming won't prove anything regarding a players alignment.)

[Onyx Flamingo]

4 hours ago, Quartz Zebra said:

11 hours ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

I can answer this one, it was because I was about to die, we were suspecting of Axolatl but axolatl made a concerning post that made it so we didnt feel good about lynching him at that time for RL reasons. We also didnt want to bring it up in thread and say possibly offend Axolatl but with only less than an hour left before the lynch we had to move fast

Fuchsia Ostrich (Note: Ostrich, I'd still like to hear more from you - this isn't me letting you off the hook.)

Onyx Flamingo

This line feels really off to me. Not in what Flamingo actually said, but in the way they say it. So far, we'd been lead to understand that Beagle had contacted a number of players in defense of Flamingo, and they subsequently changed their votes to Axolotl, then swapped to Swan. But... this doesn't sound like that. The way 'we' makes it sound like an organised coalition that is able to have conversations as a group, and that's very different to my understanding of what supposedly happened in PM's last cycle. Also, it feels like it's assumed that every player in this group is on the same side, and I think you can only really be sure of that fact as an Eliminator.

The we you are referring to is that I was part of a group PM which was comprised of people the beagle trusted were villagers, 'We' (the people in the group PM) noticed that I most likely was a villager. It was a group PM Nothing more nothing less, and most of the people in the PM are among the most active in the thread so they were able to to switch votes  when and I guess I must bring this up, because Otherwise I am going to get lynched, Axolatl said:

 

Quote

I.
I am an idiot. I am an idiot. I am an idiot. I aM an iDiOT. I AM AN IDIOT.
Am.
How many games of SE do I have to play before I realize that I STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M STORMING DOING.
Very.
IT JUST STORMING STUCK OUT TO ME WHY DID I STORMING POST WHEN I'M THIS SLEEP-DEPRIVED.
Tired.
Answer: because I'm always this sleep-deprived.
And.
Please go ahead and kill me so I can focus on my schoolwork kthx.
Stressed.
Oh, and I completely forgot about my vote on Pearl D1. Oops. Well, sorry about that, I'll just go self-destruct right now.
Please.
Honestly, did I really think I could get back into SE like this?
Kill.
This is why I stopped playing in the first place: because it obviously causes me an inordinate amount of stress.
Me.

Which says to me real life issues, It didnt feel right and if this was an elim move to save himself it was kind of a cheap one, but I know personally I didnt care, this game is first and foremost to make sure that everyone is having fun so giving a reprieve to someone who is struggling is a human thing to do.. so in the group PM 'we' (the people in the group PM tried to figure out what the best thing was to do with less than an hour until the lynch! I ask you to have come up with a better solution in a short amount of time.

I have been accused of 'weak' reasoning. this to me seems like the absolute weakest or more likely willful ignorance of the situation.

4 hours ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

Luckily for you, I'm not this good at pretending to be village. And, for the record, I'm feeling Amber Vulture as a strong village. 

OK I will take my vote off of Amber Vulture and add mine to Tuatara for self preservation but also as Ivory and beagle both get village leans from vulture tuatara would become my primary suspect just as vulture said  .

If I do die I ask that you observe this counter bandwagon carefully. When I turn up villager hopefully it will allow you to trust Ivory completely, Beagel I trust mostly but if he does turn up elim I am going to kick myself hard...

I have to go to church now sorry I didn't respond to everyones post I just dont have time with all the night posts and church wont get over until after the cycle end. Hope to play with you all still but if not then "Journey before destination"

 

[Oxblood Beagle]

3 minutes ago, Quartz Zebra said:

Well, I know I'm village...

And the big problem is - this all happened through PM's, and we only have your word for it happening. If Onyx does turn out to be an Eliminator, there's a very good probability you are too. With the notes thing - has this been mentioned before now - I feel like there are constantly new details being added to the story of what happened in this PM, which means I have to take news of what allegedly happened with a grain of salt. (Have you mentioned the fact that Flamingo shared notes in the PM before just now? That would make me more likely to trust that story.)

And why share these notes just within the PM, and not with the whole thread? Was there really anything in those notes that couldn't be shared? For that matter, why couldn't your defense of Flamingo that you presented in PM's be made to the thread, apart from the fact that you don't really seem to have any evidence for your defense except for a gut read? (And Dragonfly has already said that Flamingo claimed in the PM - I still believe my point stands. Pretty much any role (except perhaps the Dustbringer) could easily be an Eliminator role, so claiming won't prove anything regarding a players alignment.)

Ok, there were two PMs. There was my original PM, i made one with everyone. You got one too. 

Then, later, i formed a PM with all the people I trust. It was in that that we arranged to keep Ivory alive. 

It was in the original PM that I gained my village read of Ivory, just him and I. And it's not just the role that helps me to trust them. Sharing your role to a group takes trust. Ivory expressed a village view point of death, and I made the choice to save him. He did not initiate it. But I decided I wanted to keep villagers that I trust alive, so I wouldn't be working by myself.

Guys, i know there are some confused villagers out there. Please trust me that Ivory is village. But if I'm right that Tuatara is an eliminator, this lynch will reveal so much. Those who defended him are more probably eliminators, and those who attacked him are more confirmed villager. So this lynch will not lack for information. 

[Mint Heron]

12 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

Onyx is village because when he was going to die, he entrusted his notes to me through PM. Would an eliminator really bother to take the time to do that? Would they honestly? 

Strange, huh? On Wednesday 5:49 AM SGT (9:49 PM UTC ) Squawk PMed me and said he was suspicious of Jai and to go after him if Squawk died. Timing's prolly important but I don't have time to figure it out now. I have a lot of writing today I need to get done >>

[Oxblood Beagle]

5 minutes ago, Mint Heron said:

Strange, huh? On Wednesday 5:49 AM SGT (9:49 PM UTC ) Squawk PMed me and said he was suspicious of Jai and to go after him if Squawk died. Timing's prolly important but I don't have time to figure it out now. I have a lot of writing today I need to get done >>

He PMed me later in the cycle on thursday, he explained that originally he was suspicious of me, but now he trusted me. Specifically, it was at 11:49 EST. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Oxblood Beagle

[Quartz Zebra]

2 minutes ago, Mint Heron said:

Strange, huh? On Wednesday 5:49 AM SGT (9:49 PM UTC ) Squawk PMed me and said he was suspicious of Jai and to go after him if Squawk died. Timing's prolly important but I don't have time to figure it out now. I have a lot of writing today I need to get done >>

If you're suspicious of the Flamingo/Beagle alliance, do you mind swapping your vote from Beagle to Flamingo before you go? If we're able to lynch Flamingo, then that will help to clear up this whole mess.

Beagle - if I were an Eliminator and Tuatara were my buddy, I probably would have let them die by this point.  The only reason I'm still trying to convince people is because I think that there is something fishy going with the whole PM group, and lynching Flamingo will help my reads on the entire group. If Flamingo is village, then I'm almost certainly going to be lynched tomorrow. But... I really don't think they are. And there's only one way to find out.

Also, for posterity's sake, could you list the people in this Group PM with you and Flamingo (unless there's a problem with that)? Also, a brief summary would be nice, but I understand if that takes a little longer to get done, and if you hold back things such as claims from the thread.

[Oxblood Beagle]

12 minutes ago, Quartz Zebra said:

If you're suspicious of the Flamingo/Beagle alliance, do you mind swapping your vote from Beagle to Flamingo before you go? If we're able to lynch Flamingo, then that will help to clear up this whole mess.

Beagle - if I were an Eliminator and Tuatara were my buddy, I probably would have let them die by this point.  The only reason I'm still trying to convince people is because I think that there is something fishy going with the whole PM group, and lynching Flamingo will help my reads on the entire group. If Flamingo is village, then I'm almost certainly going to be lynched tomorrow. But... I really don't think they are. And there's only one way to find out.

Also, for posterity's sake, could you list the people in this Group PM with you and Flamingo (unless there's a problem with that)? Also, a brief summary would be nice, but I understand if that takes a little longer to get done, and if you hold back things such as claims from the thread.

It was me, Ivory, Onyx, and Albatross, and I brought in @Sapphire Elephant a little later (hey, where are you? We need more villagers involved!). The next person I would have brought in would be Vulture, I'm feeling pretty village about them. Albatross also shared some good things on why Onyx is probably village in our one on one PM, specifically how they are demonstrating "progression of thought." Elims already know who's village and who's not. But villagers are constantly evolving their suspicions. (Actually, because of this, my theory is that albatross is amanuesis, but that really doesn't matter). 

A brief summary was this, i made the PM and said "I trust you guys, I'm almost sure that Onyx is village, i want to switch the vote to a better target." We discussed for a bit, and we ended up voting on Axolotl. (Ivory did not get on by the end of the day to see the PM or get involved.). Then, Axolotl did their thing, we all went "oh crap we can't lynch them." And then we switched to Swan. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Oxblood Beagle

[Cream Tuatara]

I believe the “PM Group” Beagle started might actually be the Sympathizer doc...

[Quartz Zebra]

1 minute ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

It was me, Ivory, Onyx, and Albatross, and I brought in @Sapphire Elephant a little later (hey, where are you? We need more villagers involved!). The next person I would have brought in would be Vulture, I'm feeling pretty village about them. Albatross also shared some good things on why Onyx is probably village in our one on one PM, specifically how they are demonstrating "progression of thought." Elims already know who's village and who's not. But villagers are constantly evolving their suspicions. (Actually, because of this, my theory is that albatross is amanuesis, but that really doesn't matter). 

Hmmm... Thankyou. I didn't realize you were able to bring people into a group PM later, without restarting the PM altogether.

Is that really enough to make you "sure", though? Admittedly, I didn't see the full argument, but it doesn't seem like something that would convince me beyond all reasonable doubt the way it has done to you. It certainly doesn't seem something that would be hard to fake. In fact, I'd argue as an Eliminator, it can be very useful to be able to 'change your reads' on people, thereby being able to vote for whoever is most advantageous for you in the lynch (for example, if there was a close lynch between a Villager and Eliminator, the Eliminator Team would be able to 'progress their thought' towards suspicion of the villager, thereby saving their teammate. Both last cycle, between Swan and Flamingo, and this cycle, between Tuatara and Flamingo, could well be a testament to this. Seeing as the vote on Tuatara seemed to start more or less as a poke-vote, you do seem to be very determined to stick to it. I... probably would be under similar circumstances, but I have to consider ulterior motives behind you trying to defend Flamingo.

I really don't think Aman's speech patterns match Albatross's, but that might just be me. If I were to take a punt, I'd say Aman may not even be playing AG4, because they want to work on their serial. (Although I agree it doesn't really matter.)

[Oxblood Beagle]

45 minutes ago, Quartz Zebra said:

Hmmm... Thankyou. I didn't realize you were able to bring people into a group PM later, without restarting the PM altogether.

Is that really enough to make you "sure", though? Admittedly, I didn't see the full argument, but it doesn't seem like something that would convince me beyond all reasonable doubt the way it has done to you. It certainly doesn't seem something that would be hard to fake. In fact, I'd argue as an Eliminator, it can be very useful to be able to 'change your reads' on people, thereby being able to vote for whoever is most advantageous for you in the lynch (for example, if there was a close lynch between a Villager and Eliminator, the Eliminator Team would be able to 'progress their thought' towards suspicion of the villager, thereby saving their teammate. Both last cycle, between Swan and Flamingo, and this cycle, between Tuatara and Flamingo, could well be a testament to this. Seeing as the vote on Tuatara seemed to start more or less as a poke-vote, you do seem to be very determined to stick to it. I... probably would be under similar circumstances, but I have to consider ulterior motives behind you trying to defend Flamingo.

I really don't think Aman's speech patterns match Albatross's, but that might just be me. If I were to take a punt, I'd say Aman may not even be playing AG4, because they want to work on their serial. (Although I agree it doesn't really matter.)

No, i did have to restart the PM. I actually made that mistake, and Orlok corrected me lol. but would Onyx be able to fake that on their first game? I find it more plausable they're an honest villager, and not a huge IKYK elim move. 

Also, seriously Tuatara? It would be quite interesting if I could bring villagers in the eliminator doc, in a game without alignment changes, and a game where I'm not an elim. 

Also, Quartz, at this point I'm feeling you as village. I'm also not asking you to not consider all the options. But at some point you gotta take a leap of faith as a villager. If we lynch Tuatara and they turn elim, that shows Onyx is more likely village, and im more likely village. We can't afford to spend time eliminating probable villagers if we want to win this game. We've gotta lynch the sketchy ones, and right now Tuatara is looking sketchier and sketchier. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Oxblood Beagle