Anniversary Game 4/Anonymous Game 1: A Fresh Start

[Oxblood Beagle]

4 hours ago, Sage Kangaroo said:

I'm actually suspicious of Beagle again.  Ok, I know I'm wobbling about here, but it's hard to get reads on people, ok?  

Ok, I'm partially suspicious of them because they're still alive, after being one of the most active players for a couple cycles now, as well as apparently being extremely active in PMs.  Even if a lot of it was fluff, it was still a lot of posts, and some of them had some pretty decent analysis in them. It just seems unlikely that the Elims would keep a player like that alive.  I'll admit that the kill patterns of the Elims do look a little odd, though, so who knows?

But if Beagle was an Elim, suddenly it makes sense why he's not dead yet.  It also makes sense that he was a big part of two lynch trains on players we now know were villagers.  And those repeated, "I'm probably going to die tonight," "Oh, phew, I survived," definitely read as off to me.

So, Beagle.  I know I'm not the first person to post suspicions of you, but I'd like to hear what you have to say, especially since a couple of those suspicions you simply discarded as "Ok, I gambled and failed."  Not really a defense, more of a deflection.

Hello hello, I've been busy, so I haven't said as much as I wish I could. 

Yes, i am a little miffed that they killed Octopus. However, they also never answered my PM. 

Also, if I were elim, would I really draw such attention to myself? I really, really wouldn't. 

Right now I'm going to vote Cream Tuatara for blatant non attention to the write up, and the weird thing where they said they wouldn't vote unless something big happened. 

[Cream Tuatara]

@Oxblood Beagle How exactly is it weird that I didn’t really have any suspicions during the Day?

[Amber Vulture]

15 hours ago, Ivory Dragonfly said:

Elims going after inactives makes a lot of sense to me. Killing an actually active player would generate valuable discussion for the village, and since they know which inactives are village they can kill them with impunity as we try to puzzle out the frequent posters

2

Hm. That's an interesting theory. I'm not sure that it's necessarily accurate, but I've never thought of it before myself. If they're trying to avoid giving any information, though, why not just use an RNG? Targeting inactives reveals at least a little about their strategy, as opposed to truly pseudorandom behavior. The issue with that - and their apparent targeting of inactives - is that any deviation from that norm or pattern to strike a strategic target will give a wealth of information because we'd learn what benefits they'd value enough to break from their randomness or established behavior.

4 hours ago, Sage Kangaroo said:

Ok, I'm partially suspicious of them because they're still alive, after being one of the most active players for a couple cycles now, as well as apparently being extremely active in PMs.

I'm aware of many metagame conversations lately about how inactivity is rising in large part due to the factor of killing off active people. While killing off active posters may be the strategically viable move, it makes the game less fun, and SE is about fun, not winning. I'd hope that the eliminators wouldn't target players specifically for their activity as early as this is in the game. 

4 hours ago, Sage Kangaroo said:

 And those repeated, "I'm probably going to die tonight," "Oh, phew, I survived," definitely read as off to me.

I disagree. I doubt that an eliminator would draw attention to the fact that they, a viable target for the elim kill, wasn't targeted. Of course, that could be what he was going for, but we're getting into IKYK territory now.

3 hours ago, Ivory Dragonfly said:

I think there’s a simpler reason the Elims haven’t killed Beagle: it would confirm nearly everything he’s been saying as true. If I was elim, I would wait to kill Beagle until the very end of the game, letting the suspicion on him build to negate some of his meaningful commentary and to deflect suspicion away from themselves. Of course, this assumes village!Beagle, but I don’t really see much of a case for Elim!Beagle, as his comments seem genuine, as do his motives. Again, not completely ignoring him as a suspect, but I trust him.

Hm. Once again, you've provided interesting analysis that I'm not sure I can agree with. There's something of a mantra here that confirmed good is not confirmed right, and even if Beagle did prove to be a villager it'd only marginally impact my analysis of his arguments. Further, I'd argue that if you posit there'd be such a village benefit from the elims killing Beagle, we may as well just lynch him now to get that information anyways. I'm obviously not advocating for such an action, but rather attempting to employ reductio ad absurdum. Killing Beagle at this time would cost us much more than it gains. Beagle is perhaps my strongest village read at the moment, so I'd much rather keep him alive for the time being, but I doubt that this reasoning is that which the eliminators used

2 hours ago, Quartz Zebra said:

the latest post makes it clear they're not that in touch with the game.

Or, possibly, that they're attempting to appear that way. It could also indicate that, assuming they're an eliminator, they made plans with their team to try to orchestrate a lynch against Opal Lion, and simply neglected to check if a village vigilante had done their job for them before posting and trying to put it into action.

2 hours ago, Quartz Zebra said:

[Analysis of Ostrich] 

 

This analysis is quite good. I'm somewhat torn, now. I plan to vote on either Ostrich or Tuatara, unless a more compelling lynch presents itself

1 hour ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Logic like that is precisely why the active players tend to get killed early in these games and the games devolves into a handful of semi-active players who haven’t been following the game trying to find the remaining eliminators.

From what I’ve seen the super-active players (like @Oxblood Beagle has been) are almost always (but admittedly, not always) Village. If this is true then don’t worry, the Eliminators will kill him eventually- day 3 is too soon to be suspicious of someone simply for not having been killed yet. Let’s try to not make the eliminators’ job easier for them. And in the meantime, if we keep Beagle alive we all get to benefit from his frequent and detailed posts, analyses, and theories.

I disagree that activity is alignment indicative. That said, I agree that the more proliferous a poster is, the more benefit we gain from their posts, regardless of their alignment. If, when Beagle inevitably dies, he proves to be an eliminator, we would perhaps gain more information from revisiting his posts than if he proves to be a villager

1 hour ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

And if it turns out that he is one of those super-active players who happens to also be an eliminator, it will become obvious as time goes on. Nobody can post that much and not slip up somewhere.

 

I'd say this is also true without regards to alignment. Anyone with a sufficient number of posts will do or say something suspicious, whether eliminator or not

Note: This is the second time I've written this post, at least in part, because the first time I visited the next page and the contents of my message erased themselves. If I've put incomplete thoughts here, it's likely because I remembered elaborating on it when I had only done so the first time through. I plan on doing page 2 soon, but don't want to lose what I've already done again

[Oxblood Beagle]

20 minutes ago, Cream Tuatara said:

@Oxblood Beagle How exactly is it weird that I didn’t really have any suspicions during the Day?

It wasn't that, that's normal. It was how you worded it. 

[Mint Heron]

15 hours ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

This made me laugh so hard! I definitely agree with you Ivory that the Elims seem to be hiding either in the inactive or the somewhat active zone. With the new developments of last night I do want to comb through day 2 and 1 again to see if there is something I missed but I will leave a vote on Mint Heron Because he has been on multiple times with the last being just 2 hours ago but he still only has 2 Content posts! He must be doing something to stay active and not get replaced... 

I'm surprised this vote is still on me; I thought the post I made showed that I'm more active now. (I'll be much more active when I catch up on what happened Day 2.) To make it clear: every night when someone sleeps, they wake up a slightly different version of the original, and after last Night, I woke up a very different version of myself. It's as if I've been replaced by a new person.

[Turquoise Gorilla]

5 hours ago, Sunburst Toucan said:

"Eh, what?" Vanna looked up from her notes in confusion. "I don't remember defending Meerkat at all. being suspicious of him, and voting on him during the first day, yes. The only thing that could be considered a defense is backing off from pursuing that suspicion further after Swan decided to let Meerkat off the hook."

Vanna shook her head. She'd probably need to review Meerkat soon, to see whether her first instincts where right or not, but she'd decided to approach it systematically, and abandoning that now might rob her of the momentum she'd built in getting the job done.

Um, sorry then, I must have been confused. I'll put the blame on all the animal names instead of my faulty mind.

Thanks to Zebra and Dragonfly for responding to my request. I like to get others thoughts on my top suspects so I can have a fresh opinion to munch on.

Penguin has seemed more and more like a villager to me lately. I'm not sure I agree with the suspicion on Vulture, but it is good to draw attention to players who haven't received very much yet, and Vulture hasn't gotten a lot I don't think.

Here is a vote count.

Spoiler

Cream Tuatara(2): Ivory Dragonfly, Oxblood Beagel
Mint Heron(1): Onyx Flamingo
Amber Vulture(1): Chartreuse Penguin
Oxblood Beagle(1): Sage Kangaroo
Fuschia Ostrich(1): Quartz Zebra
Salmon Meerkat(1): Turquoise Gorilla

Personally, I think I would lynch Ostrich, Heron, Tuatara, Vulture, then Beagle, if those were the only choices. In order from who I'd lynch first or last in that scenario. I'm beginning to think that Tuatara is more just a villager in the dark than a Sympathizer. Similarly, I worry that Ostrich is the same, because they don't seem to care at all about appearances. Mostly posting one line thoughts, with votes that are largely left unexplained, or are only for the sake of causing a tie. It's confusing to me. It's really too bad PM's are down, otherwise I would PM both of these players to try and figure them out.

Mint Heron, I don't have any read on, and now they're a pinch hitter, so that just multiplies my zero read on them. I trust Beagle the most out of those five, and Vulture does sound like a clever person in general, so I will be extra wary of them unless they have a big impact for the village.

And now this brings me to my own vote. Staying consistent with what I said earlier, if I'm not going to vote on Tuatara or Ostrich, my other options are Chameleon and Meerkat. Of course, I don't have to vote on either of them if I feel a better case has been made for someone else, but I haven't seen anything like that yet. My gut is telling me to vote Meerkat, and being a Gorilla, I have quite an impressive gut, so I'll go with that. I will attempt to review and post analysis on both Chameleon and Meerkat before the day is over. As I like to give at least some reason to my votes, I believe Meerkat is voting on a villager, Beagle, right now and the reasons for the vote sound like it could be them trying to take advantage of the Sympathizers kills to cast suspicion on the most active players. Possible reason for the Sympathizers to kill inactive villagers? Try to make us think that there must be Sympathizers among the more active members, so they're killing inactives to more easily hide?

I will also urge everyone to put a vote somewhere earlier rather than later, so that 1. if we have a late lynch again, we'll have many different options to choose from, giving us a better shot at catching a Sympathizer, and 2. you have a chance to pick your most suspicious suspect for your vote, instead of only being able to vote for a few players because voting anywhere else wouldn't get anything done.

[Amethyst Scorpion]

4 hours ago, Quartz Zebra said:

Can't start them or receive them anymore, unfortunately. Our other Edgedancer died.

That reminds me of the other thing I meant to ask - was Octopus active in PM's? If they were, they might have claimed to someone and subsequently been killed by the Eliminators. Or, the Eliminators were just lucky. Both are possible.

Also, does anyone know how to turn off overwrite mode in Chrome? It's annoying me, and means I can't triple edit things like I want to (a large part of why I don't post a ton - I tend to quibble to much over what I say until the last possible moment.)

...On second thought, maybe you all shouldn't tell me.

Shoot, missed that at the bottom of the writeup. I wasn’t expecting more Edgedancers exactly, but I must have scrolled past the notice that PMs weren’t open. 

My only PM was with Beagle, and not much was discussed.

[Cream Tuatara]

For now, I’ll be placing my vote on Beagle for several reasons. First of all, his lynch will give us a large amount of information, thus helping us no matter what his alignment is. Secondly, his PM empire is mildly suspicious, due to the fact that it allowed him to easily get information on the motives and reads of villagers, thus allowing him to easily manipulate the village. Lastly, I have a bit of an eliminator gut read on him, and I’ll be interested to see how he responds to this post.

[Oxblood Beagle]

15 minutes ago, Cream Tuatara said:

For now, I’ll be placing my vote on Beagle for several reasons. First of all, his lynch will give us a large amount of information, thus helping us no matter what his alignment is. Secondly, his PM empire is mildly suspicious, due to the fact that it allowed him to easily get information on the motives and reads of villagers, thus allowing him to easily manipulate the village. Lastly, I have a bit of an eliminator gut read on him, and I’ll be interested to see how he responds to this post.

First off, i hate the term "PM empire." What I wanted was another way to generate reads- which worked- and talk to less actives- which sometimes worked. 

Also, what information will I give? Yes, i have some good reads on people, but just because I'm village doesn't make me right. That's half the reason I'm trying to encourage activity anyway. 

Furthermore, i find it likely the elims would try to lynch me rather than kill me, for the same reasons stated above at some point. So I'll be keeping my vote on you. also, i looked through your posts, and it's amazing how little you've said with your posts. It definetly looks like you're trying to avoid attention. 

[Sage Kangaroo]

5 hours ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

I hope I’m not the only one who sees the irony in this statement.  “I can’t believe that beagle is sill alive! He’s been so active! I say we kill him so that he won’t be alive anymore.”

Logic like that is precisely why the active players tend to get killed early in these games and the games devolves into a handful of semi-active players who haven’t been following the game trying to find the remaining eliminators.

From what I’ve seen the super-active players (like @Oxblood Beagle has been) are almost always (but admittedly, not always) Village. If this is true then don’t worry, the Eliminators will kill him eventually- day 3 is too soon to be suspicious of someone simply for not having been killed yet. Let’s try to not make the eliminators’ job easier for them. And in the meantime, if we keep Beagle alive we all get to benefit from his frequent and detailed posts, analyses, and theories. 

True.  And I don't really want to be the person who kills actives because they're active.    It's against everything I stand for.  Beagle. 

I won't say I'm no longer suspicious of Beagle:  I still am.  Just not enough to actively attempt a lynch on him, especially since the majority seems to think he's innocent.    

3 hours ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

Hello hello, I've been busy, so I haven't said as much as I wish I could. 

Yes, i am a little miffed that they killed Octopus. However, they also never answered my PM. 

Also, if I were elim, would I really draw such attention to myself? I really, really wouldn't. 

Right now I'm going to vote Cream Tuatara for blatant non attention to the write up, and the weird thing where they said they wouldn't vote unless something big happened. 

This feels like another non-response to my accusation.  I'll let it go because so many other people jumped to your defense, but your statement about Octopus also feels off to me.  

And as for your statement about what an Elim would do, well, that's what an Elim would say.  kidding-not-kidding

Gonna be honest;  Still not feeling the Tuatara lynch.  I have to agree that it's just a playstyle thing, as seems to be consistently the reason for suspicions over the past few cycles.  Non-attention to the writeup isn't a reason to kill someone.  It betrays a lack of care, maybe, or a lack of common sense, but it really doesn't say Elim to me.  And that weird thing they said also doesn't sound very solid.  I'm not saying I don't see other reasons to be suspicious of them; that vote they just threw on Beagle does look rather odd, but it's also something that a frightened villager might do.

3 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

Also, what information will I give? Yes, i have some good reads on people, but just because I'm village doesn't make me right. That's half the reason I'm trying to encourage activity anyway. 

Off the top of my head, it would lend us a bit of information about your supporters.  If you aren't village, then they're either wrong or Elim, and it will add context to some of the earlier lynches.  It will definitely color your reads, although trying to figure out what an Elim meant by their reads heads decidedly into IKYK territory.

I'm not gonna throw any votes around RN.  I'm not suspicious enough of anyone who's been voted on to start a train, and I don't feel like adding a vote to the already growing list, so I'm gonna wait a bit and see what happens.

[Amber Vulture]

5 hours ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

Of the two, I reckon that the Dustbringer is a villager, because the Elims would more likely leave Opal alive so that we could waste a lynch on it.

I would agree that this is the most likely case, both due to what you said in your post and the way I'd expect the GMs to balance the game

1 hour ago, Turquoise Gorilla said:

Vulture does sound like a clever person in general, so I will be extra wary of them unless they have a big impact for the village

I'm flattered that I'm seen as a threat. Hopefully I can do something major for the village soon so as to prove my goodness  

26 minutes ago, Cream Tuatara said:

For now, I’ll be placing my vote on Beagle for several reasons. First of all, his lynch will give us a large amount of information, thus helping us no matter what his alignment is. Secondly, his PM empire is mildly suspicious, due to the fact that it allowed him to easily get information on the motives and reads of villagers, thus allowing him to easily manipulate the village. Lastly, I have a bit of an eliminator gut read on him, and I’ll be interested to see how he responds to this post.

This reads to me as very suspicious. It feels in many ways like a retaliation vote, which is something that I believe to arise more naturally from an eliminator than a villager, since villagers want to help the town by lynching those they are truly suspicious of while eliminators care much more about their personal fates and silencing their critics. It would have been much less suspicious, as I see it, for Tuatara to have argued for their own innocence rather than the guilt of their accuser, but I'm of the opinion that the way they handled it speaks volumes. I'd also contest the arguments Tuatara makes, as I've expressed before that I believe the village will gain far more information if Beagle continues to live, and I additionally believe that his "PM empire" was, in a number of evidenced cases, legitimately meant to engage players and promote activity, something which only hurts the eliminators. I agree that the PM manipulation of the vote was suspicious, but so long as that is not repeated I count Beagle as a probable villager

16 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

Also, what information will I give? Yes, i have some good reads on people, but just because I'm village doesn't make me right.

This. Confirmed good != confirmed right

17 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

also, i looked through your posts, and it's amazing how little you've said with your posts. It definetly looks like you're trying to avoid attention.

Hm. I'm not sure how well that meshes with him calling out you, a player many people have villager reads on. I'd disagree with this accusation, at least in this case

[Sunburst Toucan]

1 hour ago, Turquoise Gorilla said:

I will also urge everyone to put a vote somewhere earlier rather than later, so that 1. if we have a late lynch again, we'll have many different options to choose from, giving us a better shot at catching a Sympathizer, and 2. you have a chance to pick your most suspicious suspect for your vote, instead of only being able to vote for a few players because voting anywhere else wouldn't get anything done.

Storm it, I'm not even halfway done yet! 

Still, he wasn't really wrong. Vanna didn't expect to finish reviewing everyone before the next day was over, so sharing some of her conclusions now would probably be a good idea. She quickly reviewed everything she'd written to try and find a main suspect, starting with the two most recent additions to her notebook.

Indigo Weasel

Spoiler

Weasel wasn't around much during the day turn. He only really talked about who was suspecting who and the rules around how lynch mobs where to behave (I should probably ask him for a copy of those rules. That ought to be an interesting read).

Yesterday, he did a fairly good job of explaining the necessity of the lynch, but that doesn't really mean much. he was also among those who voted for Swan, but his reasoning does make some sense. I'd like to know why he thinks Jai(beagle) and Albatross are trustworthy though, as he does seem to imply there that he trusts them more than swan.

Then there's his statement last night about trying to be particularly quiet during the night. I'd definitely share anything of interest I might figure out during the night because there's no guarantee that I'd be around in the morning to discuss it, and it seems like this doesn't worry him. Then again, he might not be really working to figure anything out during the night, but that has it's own unpleasant implications. However, I doubt the actual murderer would be so blunt about it.

I'm still somewhat undecided about Weasel, but he's not a suspect right now.

Ivory Dragonfly

Spoiler

Now here's an odd one. He's claimed multiple times that he's only recently moved to the village, but he sounds like someone who's lived here for ages, most of the time. But then he shows a lot of trust with apparently reasonably little cause, which, unfortunately, isn't really typical. In particular his casual use of terms like 'WGG', and his conclusion about kangoroo's identity don't feel like the kind of thing a new inhabitant, even a well-read one, would be saying.

Ignoring that suspicion for now, let's get to what he's actually said. And that's a lot. I won't go too much into detail on what he's said (as I'd still be writing this by the time the sun went down), but I'd like to say that the overall feeling I get from it is that of a villager. However, there is nothing specific that actually supports this feeling, which makes me somewhat wary of him. Not in a 'we should lynch him now' way, but in a 'I should not trust him untill I figure why I feel like I should trust him' way.

Dragonfly is also a major contributor to the discussion, so I think he shouldn't be lynched for a while yet, but if the villains keep leaving him alone, he's going to need to be looked at with a  great deal of scrutiny.

This conclusion is also based on the assumption that he is, in fact, a new villager. If proof comes forward that he isn't, then I'd become a lot more suspicious of him.

"All right, based on what I've seen, I think Cream Tuatara is the most suspicious. He's done a lot of contradictory things, such as freely throwing accusations around during the first day and then suddenly claiming he would abstain from voting unless 'something big' happened during the second. He's also talked a lot without actually saying much, sometimes managing to say nothing in an entire speech. Lastly, this recent accusation of Jai (Beagle) seems weird. It's not the suspicion itself, as I'll be keeping an eye on him myself, but rather the way it was worded. Tuatara claims that lynching Jai would give us a lot of information, without actually specifying what kind of information he expects, making that an unsupported argument. As has been said before, 'Confirmed good isn't confirmed right'." Vanna took a deep breath before continuing. This next part would probably make someone unhappy. If she failed to get her meaning across properly, it would make a lot of people unhappy.

"That having been said, I'm not too sure about this suspicion. Certainly, Tuatara is the most suspicious of the third of the village I've looked at, but I'm not certain how much that means as there's still around 20 people I haven't looked at. Tuatara is also currently in the top suspicion, and I feel adding to that right now might stifle discussion if people consider it a closed case. As it stands, I will vote against him later today, but things might change before that." 

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Sunburst Toucan

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

6 hours ago, Quartz Zebra said:

...I mean, why? What information could we possibly glean from an RNG death? Wouldn't that reduce the ability for conversation about who to lynch, thereby spreading more information about players stances on other players? Or is this a quick way to vote on Weasel without having to find a genuine reason?

It was because I was bored and felt like sticking a vote out there. 

Quote

Again, no explanation why, hopping on a bandwagon (along with Albatross, who I've already discussed my suspicion of, and Beagle, who plenty of other people seem to be suspicious of, so...) - could you elaborate on why you found them suspicious? Do you have any other thoughts on any of the other players?

It was mainly a gut read that I had gotten. I do have thoughts, but they're on my computer which I won't have access to for a couple of hours. I'll post them then

Edited January 20, 2018 by Fuchsia Ostrich
Stupid autocorrect

[Oxblood Beagle]

4 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

I would agree that this is the most likely case, both due to what you said in your post and the way I'd expect the GMs to balance the game

I'm flattered that I'm seen as a threat. Hopefully I can do something major for the village soon so as to prove my goodness  

This reads to me as very suspicious. It feels in many ways like a retaliation vote, which is something that I believe to arise more naturally from an eliminator than a villager, since villagers want to help the town by lynching those they are truly suspicious of while eliminators care much more about their personal fates and silencing their critics. It would have been much less suspicious, as I see it, for Tuatara to have argued for their own innocence rather than the guilt of their accuser, but I'm of the opinion that the way they handled it speaks volumes. I'd also contest the arguments Tuatara makes, as I've expressed before that I believe the village will gain far more information if Beagle continues to live, and I additionally believe that his "PM empire" was, in a number of evidenced cases, legitimately meant to engage players and promote activity, something which only hurts the eliminators. I agree that the PM manipulation of the vote was suspicious, but so long as that is not repeated I count Beagle as a probable villager

This. Confirmed good != confirmed right

Hm. I'm not sure how well that meshes with him calling out you, a player many people have villager reads on. I'd disagree with this accusation, at least in this case

I feel like I have a good thought process, but I'm also kind of tired today. Him going from "meh posts" to expressing unsupported suspicion of me is suspcious, on top of his other behavior. 

Regarding Ivory, i stress that I know who they are, and that the reason they know terms like WGG is because they went back and read old games to understand the game better, which I applaud.

Again, i feel like I have more to say, but I'm really tired and so I'll wait until I can phrase my ideas without sounding like an idiot. 

[Amber Vulture]

1 minute ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

Regarding Ivory, i stress that I know who they are, and that the reason they know terms like WGG is because they went back and read old games to understand the game better, which I applaud.

3

Did they claim, or are you guessing? We have 2 supposedly new players here that I know of, so if that's what you're basing your guess on it is possible that you're incorrect. Also, while guessing the normal alias of various players may be amusing, I'd suggest focusing analysis on players' behavior in regards to their suspiciousness, at least in part because this game is specifically intended to escape the normal meta. I, for one, don't particularly care if my identity is known, so I've only made cursory attempts at obscuring it. You're welcome to guess if you want. For other players, though, this is an invaluable opportunity to play without the impact of their reps, which I'm told can be a significant burden. In the interests of good sportsmanship, I'll refrain from guessing at others' identities unless they explicitly state that they don't mind. (Please note, Beagle, that this was not directed specifically at you, but at everyone)

[Ivory Dragonfly]

@Cream Tuatara The info Beagle’s lynch would give us would be if we could trust him or not, which at that point would be almost moot. Sure, his reads would be confirmed as not suspicious, but even then they could be wrong, as he himself points out. The only other motive behind killing him would be if we thought he was elim, a chance that’s next to zero at this point. His creation of so many PMs seems to point to a villager trying to unite the village and garner discussion. And frankly, even though PMs are closed now, he succeeded. People like Amber Vulture and Turquoise Gorilla are much more active now ( through a combination of pinch-hitters stepping in and Beagle’s outreach), and the whole village is talking more. Of course, with him making so many posts and PMs, there’s bound to be a comment or two that feels off or suspicious, as (I think) Vulture said. But when you look at his posts, and his actions in creating the PMs as a whole, there’s really very little to suggest he’s evil. 

@Sunburst Toucan

If you don’t take my word for it that I am new, you can ask Oxblood Beagle and Cream Tuatara, both of whom came to the correct conclusion about my real identity separately. While I’d ask them not to reveal it, they know I have never played SE before. 

My use of terms like WGG comes from having read the rules like 20 times, looking through past game threads, and following LG41. Again, ask Beagle or Tuatara if you want confirmation. I’m not saying that you should be taking pity on me, I’m simply letting you know that I’m not lying when I say I’m new. Which is likely where the other things you noticed about me come from: I’m probably too willing to trust, and haven’t played enough to really get a feel for suspicious behavior, as that’s something reading back through old game threads won’t teach you.  It’s one thing to see suspicious behavior in a thread and recognize it with the clarity of hindsight than it is to actively identify it. Which is probably why I mistakenly trust some people that may flip as Elims.

For similar reasons to Beagle, I still distrust Tuatara. I’d like to be able to trust Beagle completely; I think we all would. However, the dearth of evidence against him, a player with upwards of 50 posts, makes it a bad lynch in my eyes. A similar amount of evidence against Tuatara, who has made a dozen fairly short posts, is suspicious. My vote stays where it is until I see a reason to move it.

Edit: ninja’d by a ton of people. And, duh, my choice of wording at the end of paragraph three was terrible, so I’ll go ahead and point that out before someone else does. It sounds really Elim even to me. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Ivory Dragonfly

[Onyx Flamingo]

2 hours ago, Mint Heron said:

I'm surprised this vote is still on me; I thought the post I made showed that I'm more active now. (I'll be much more active when I catch up on what happened Day 2.) To make it clear: every night when someone sleeps, they wake up a slightly different version of the original, and after last Night, I woke up a very different version of myself. It's as if I've been replaced by a new person.

Sorry I've had a bit of a crazy saturday so far, with a lot I need to get done so I just got on today. I will remove my vote from heron for now just because for meta reasons it seems hard for me to believe a elim would go inactive when they still have the doc to communicate. could be faulty reasoning though and I will keep close eye on them.

Mint Heron also known as Aldrick seems like he is participating a lot more in the discussion. Squawk was somewhat relieved it seemed like the town was Finally starting to realize how much storming trouble they were in. A third cycle of day and night mishaps would be crippling to moral of the village not to mention that the town wasn't that big so soon Odiums forces could outweigh the rest of us. Squawk racked her chicken brain hard searching for patterns. He was inclined to agree with @Turquoise Gorilla on his suspects of suspicion, maybe not necessarily in that order but as subjects sure. The problem is Squawk didn't trust her gut after last night... she couldn't make that mistake again... but she couldn't afford not to catch one of the murderers either today!

Ostritch seemed suspicious to her but this was mainly her gut speaking though she did just say

14 minutes ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

It was mainly a gut read that I had gotten. I do have thoughts, but they're on my computer which I won't have access to for a couple of hours. I'll post them them

which to Squawk meant one of two things she really did have notes writeten down somewhere, Or she needed time to make up observations about people kind of like gecko never revealing his long promised post. But why wouldn;t they have at least revealed some of there thought while writing them on the computer if the first case was true?

Tuatara now Flamingo honestly did suspect them a lot they only seemed to try to steer conversation away from them or slight pokes here or there. It felt like they were trying to blend in to the confusion which is where she suspected Murderers would want to hide.

Then there was vulture... vulture who participated in the bird council accusing swan but wouldn't do so in the thread, vulture who appears after missing the whole first day during the night cycle. Vulture who tried to get poeple to not use PM's during the night though that may have been a misunderstanding but it could have been elims trying to stifle communication.

Squawk hated this, but due to Amber vultures unprecedented participation in the group today trying desperately to get out of the outside circle of discussion after we all said we would be watching it It seemed suspicious to squawk timing wise." @Amber Vulture why didn't you speak up as much in the previous days?" Squawk squawked.

I'm hoping to get some discussion out of this my vote is by no means firmly locked in but I do want some reasoning why vulture is not a good pick.

 

 

[Sunburst Toucan]

5 minutes ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

I'm hoping to get some discussion out of this my vote is by no means firmly locked in but I do want some reasoning why vulture is not a good pick.

This is not something that should be in blue text, just FYI.

Edit: Nor should this part be blue either. Just the first sentence you put in blue is what blue text is normally used for.

5 minutes ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

I will remove my vote from heron for now just because for meta reasons it seems hard for me to believe a elim would go inactive when they still have the doc to communicate. could be faulty reasoning though and I will keep close eye on them.

Edit 2: Oh, right, new player, sorry. From Da Rulez:

Quote

All out of game discussion should be in blue once the game starts. This applies to everything that is unrelated to the game, mostly pertaining to real life events/situations that affect your ability to play or that you wish to share with the other players. Site issues like the server going down and being unable to access the site or a site update creating problems in other parts of the site that affect the game would be blue-text as well. If it pertains directly to the game itself in any way, keep it in black.

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Sunburst Toucan

[Amethyst Scorpion]

I don’t like just jumping on bandwagons, but at the moment I agree with some of the arguments in favor of a Tuatara lynch. Also, while Beagle and I discussed very little, I got a village feel since he made no attempts to push me into revealing anything. Not at all a confirmation, but a good sign to me.

[Oxblood Beagle]

Jai was starting to be noticed. 

They looked at him oddly. Why did they listen to him, a kid? A street orphan? 

He had stolen the slouchy pale guys curry, and when he went to the baker's stand to steal his bread, there were two loaves. Jai narrowed his eyes at this. Was the baker trying to be generous?

Jai took both, and left a few dun spheres. Infused ones were better anyway. 

Suddenly, the slouchy pale guy pointed at him, and started shouting. "He stole my curry! He's a murderer!"

Jai regarded him with an incredulous look, and then did the natural thing- he threw the hot curry in the man's face. Jai cackled as he ran away. 

[Violet Axolotl]

Votes
Tuatara : Dragonfly, Beagle, Vulture, Scorpion (4)
Vulture : Penguin, Flamingo (2)
Beagle : Kangaroo, Tuatara (2)
Ostrich : Zebra (1)
Meerkat : Gorilla (1)

I'm not sure where or even if I will place a vote this round but the Tuatara lynch seems a little convenient to me.  Can't really say why, just feels off.

[Turquoise Gorilla]

37 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

I'm flattered that I'm seen as a threat. Hopefully I can do something major for the village soon so as to prove my goodness  

This reads to me as very suspicious. It feels in many ways like a retaliation vote, which is something that I believe to arise more naturally from an eliminator than a villager, since villagers want to help the town by lynching those they are truly suspicious of while eliminators care much more about their personal fates and silencing their critics. It would have been much less suspicious, as I see it, for Tuatara to have argued for their own innocence rather than the guilt of their accuser, but I'm of the opinion that the way they handled it speaks volumes. I'd also contest the arguments Tuatara makes, as I've expressed before that I believe the village will gain far more information if Beagle continues to live, and I additionally believe that his "PM empire" was, in a number of evidenced cases, legitimately meant to engage players and promote activity, something which only hurts the eliminators. I agree that the PM manipulation of the vote was suspicious, but so long as that is not repeated I count Beagle as a probable villager

A hope all villagers should have!

I don't agree with the mounting suspicion on Tuatara however. Strange as it may sound, I don't agree with Tuatara's logic for their vote on Beagle either, but it feels more like a very defensive villager than a Sympathizer.

I maybe should be ignored though, as Sage Kangaroo voted on Beagle and not Salmon Meerkat. Until I put forward a decent accusation, I think I should remove my vote.

One more thing to add. I did a quick review of Plum Rhinoceros, and they really only talked about Flamingo and Dragonfly, and their brief bickering last Cycle, which eventually led to Rhino voting on Flamingo. It's hard to say with such a limited sample size, but I could see them being a Sympathizer. @Plum Rhinoceros, I saw you were around not that long ago, but you haven't posted this Turn.

[Onyx Flamingo]

The other thing I am interested in is surely if there is a skybreaker in the game they scanned beagle last night. What did they come up with?

@Sunburst Toucan ah... thanks  *blushes*

[Sapphire Elephant]

I was feeling a Tuatara lynch yesterday - the whole "I'm not going to place a vote unless something big comes up" is at the very least, behavior we don't want to encourage.

It might not be an Elim tell, but it is unhelpful play. Consider this - by refusing to vote or participate in the discussion, you are denying the village the opportunity to form reads on you. By refusing to engage, you make it impossible for us to decide whether you are evil or not. I've seen this type of play from both villagers and Elims, though.

The retaliation vote on Beagle also piques my suspicions as well.

Very well. Tuatara

But let's not let it interfere with our discussion.

2 minutes ago, Violet Axolotl said:

Votes
Tuatara : Dragonfly, Beagle, Vulture, Scorpion (4)
Vulture : Penguin, Flamingo (2)
Beagle : Kangaroo, Tuatara (2)
Ostrich : Zebra (1)
Meerkat : Gorilla (1)

I'm not sure where or even if I will place a vote this round but the Tuatara lynch seems a little convenient to me.  Can't really say why, just feels off.

That's an awfully convenient thing to say. If Tuatara flips village, you can say that you told us so. If Tuatara flips Elim, then you can blow it off as a bad gut feeling. Looks like someone who wants to derail the lynch without looking like you're wanting to derail the lynch.

I'm going to keep a closer eye on this.

[Onyx Flamingo]

2 minutes ago, Turquoise Gorilla said:

One more thing to add. I did a quick review of Plum Rhinoceros, and they really only talked about Flamingo and Dragonfly, and their brief bickering last Cycle, which eventually led to Rhino voting on Flamingo. It's hard to say with such a limited sample size, but I could see them being a Sympathizer. @Plum Rhinoceros, I saw you were around not that long ago, but you haven't posted this Turn.

agreed gorrilla I was suspicious of rhino and then they apoligized to me last night right before pm's went out for suspecting me and maybe that clouded my judgement but rhino does have a history of lurking and only contributing when it seems that someone notices