[OB] Things you missed?

[Doomdrinker]

Hey so what are some of the things you guys missed when reading through stormlight? Specifically things that took you a long time to notice them and now that you do, you see how obvious it all is?

For me it was all the little references to potential hordlings, even once I had read edgedancer and seen the hordlings in that I still didn't think to look for more of them in the rest of stormlight until after a couple reads of OB. 

[digitalbusker]

I kicked myself at the end of The Way of Kings for not recognizing that Honor's speeches in Dalinar's visions weren't really interactive.

I think I spotted Vivenna on the second color metaphor, when really I should have been thinking along those lines just from the name she took.

That's about it for Stormlight, I think. My track record in Mistborn is much worse. In particular, I spent all of Hero of Ages

Spoiler

thinking the epigraphs were either Vin or Elend.

 

[JoyBlu]

I’m sure that I missed a lot.  Just realized a few minutes ago that Shalash is the daughter of Jezrien. I didn’t know that until a few minutes ago. 

But I did recognize so many amazing connections that I’m still having fun with the book.

 

On 12/30/2017 at 11:56 AM, Brgst13 said:

15. “A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal. ”

— Collected on Palahevan 1173, 73 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a beggar of some renown, known for his elegant songs.[21]

This rattle is believed to refer to the Herald Shalash, the daughter of the Herald Jezrien, Herald of Kings and patron of the Order of Windrunners.[22]Shalash is also Baxil'smistress who destroys art, including depictions of a specific Herald, believed to be those of Shalash herself.

This sample is particularly interesting. If the Rattles are really forward-looking, this suggests that Shalash has recently started her destruction of artwork. Given that Ishar has only recently ignited a religious war, and that statues of Shalash still exist (as they would likely not after 4,000 years of focused destruction), what have the Heralds been doing and where have they been between the last Desolation and now?

 

[Brgst13]

I totally missed that the Wandersail story represented Honor and the Knights Radiant.

[Blazenella]

I caught Mrs.Vivenna when she used the word Crimson to describe a fight

This is gonna be embarrassing, but I noticed all the Heralds in the prologue of WoK, most notably Nale and Jezrien. I also thought it was interesting that Nale was talking to Elhokar, maybe trying to get at some fledgling Radiants?

ALL OF HOID'S EPILOGUES ARE ABOUT ART! 

Also WTF happened to Taln's Honorblade. Last time I checked Dalinar had it.

Edit: This quote 100% parallels Taln and the Heralds

Quote

"Ten spears go to battle,” he whispered, “and nine shatter. Did that war forge the one that remained? No, Amaram. All the war did was identify the spear that would not break.”

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I LOVE YOU TALN

Edited January 5, 2018 by Blazenella

[The Sovereign]

1 hour ago, Brgst13 said:

I totally missed that the Wandersail story represented Honor and the Knights Radiant.

It doesn't...? It is a direct parallel to Szeth killing due to his Truthless nature and then realizing that he was never Truthless so the murders were his responsibility all along.

Edit: After some more thought, there is some parallel between the Emperor and Honor being dead but it more or less ends there. It is a loose parallel. Realistically the Knights themselves knew that Honor was dead as basically any of their Spren could tell them that... The Szeth parallel is much more of a 1 to 1 correlation.

@Blazenella: Take a closer look at the descriptions of the blades from the Kholinar scene in WoK and the blade that Dalinar bonded and then released after Bonding the Stormfather. Dalinar never had Taln's Honorblade.

As for something I missed the first time around: The Sergeant who stops Shallan when she is infiltrating Amaram's manor while disguised as a messenger is Hav, the Sergeant who trained Kaladin in Amaram's army.

Edited January 5, 2018 by The Sovereign
Additional thoughts...

[digitalbusker]

1 hour ago, The Sovereign said:

It doesn't...? It is a direct parallel to Szeth killing due to his Truthless nature and then realizing that he was never Truthless so the murders were his responsibility all along.

Edit: After some more thought, there is some parallel between the Emperor and Honor being dead but it more or less ends there. It is a loose parallel. Realistically the Knights themselves knew that Honor was dead as basically any of their Spren could tell them that... The Szeth parallel is much more of a 1 to 1 correlation.

@Blazenella: Take a closer look at the descriptions of the blades from the Kholinar scene in WoK and the blade that Dalinar bonded and then released after Bonding the Stormfather. Dalinar never had Taln's Honorblade.

As for something I missed the first time around: The Sergeant who stops Shallan when she is infiltrating Amaram's manor while disguised as a messenger is Hav, the Sergeant who trained Kaladin in Amaram's army.

Yeah, there's an obvious Szeth parallel, but the punchline of the Wandersail story is the people flipping out as they realize they're responsible for what they've done. Szeth doesn't do that, because he always felt responsible for the sins he was committing. The Knights Radiant, however, after the revelations about their origin and the lobotomizing of the parsh, do indeed flip the Braize out.

[MonsterMetroid]

1 hour ago, The Sovereign said:

As for something I missed the first time around: The Sergeant who stops Shallan when she is infiltrating Amaram's manor while disguised as a messenger is Hav, the Sergeant who trained Kaladin in Amaram's army.

Wow I never caught that before neat!

I missed that Kaladin lost hoids flute and that it is anything important to begin with.

I also went to the WoR signing in scotsdale arizona and people kept asking questions about Hoid... and I was like who in the heck is Hoid? So yeah missed that too originally lol

[Calderis]

The wanders ail story is not about the Radiants and Honor. Honor didn't die until after the Recreance. It why he has a vision of the event. He  remembers it. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8144

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Dalinar's visions are the memories of Honor, correct?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes. Yes, they are things specifically created by Honor...

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Does that mean that the Recreance happened before Honor's death... since Dalinar sees it?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes. But Honor's death, like Preservation's death, is a protracted event.

Honor was dying. Not dead. 

[Subvisual Haze]

I didn't make the connection until my second read through of Oathbringer that Taravangian was the one who quite blatantly spells out to Dalinar how spren are captured in gems for fabrials.  A few short chapters later Dalinar will use this knowledge to capture Neragaoul.

I think my mind skipped over it the first time because multiple characters mention spren being captured in gems throughout the book, and Dalinar misdirects us by specifically thanking Navani after the battle (because the fabrial she gave him had its gems exposed during the battle which jogged Dalinar's memory about spren being captured in gems).

I'm actually curious if Taravangian info dumping this information on Dalinar when he did was for narrative convenience, or if Taravangian instructed himself to do so via The Diagram.

[IllNsickly]

9 hours ago, The Sovereign said:

As for something I missed the first time around: The Sergeant who stops Shallan when she is infiltrating Amaram's manor while disguised as a messenger is Hav, the Sergeant who trained Kaladin in Amaram's army.

In the middle of WoR on a reread.

I was like... ‘WAIT... What the Storms!?!’

[Kaleid]

17 hours ago, The Sovereign said:

As for something I missed the first time around: The Sergeant who stops Shallan when she is infiltrating Amaram's manor while disguised as a messenger is Hav, the Sergeant who trained Kaladin in Amaram's army.

 

No way! That's awesome.

[Isilel]

On 5.1.2018 at 7:47 PM, The Sovereign said:

As for something I missed the first time around: The Sergeant who stops Shallan when she is infiltrating Amaram's manor while disguised as a messenger is Hav, the Sergeant who trained Kaladin in Amaram's army.

Indeed, and it made me wonder what happened to him in OB, given that in Kal's memories and in his brief appearance he didn't seem a Thrill addict, so he shouldn't have succumbed to possession. Also, the bulk of Sadeas's army consisted of normal people, even though the way he ran it attuned them to the Thrill. So what is going to happen to survivors?

Oh, and BTW, I suspect that Amaram's flute collection was explicitely mentioned as a foreshadowing for somebody finding Hoid's flute in his effects.

Also, another Kaladin's sergeant Tukks was likely a worldhopper - his appearance looks a bit "off" to Kaldin, he is unusually short and he used some odd expressions, IIRC. Though why  a worldhopper would join an army fighting in some petty conflict and get himself killed in the process is beyond me.

A couple of other things I have noticed on the re-reads of WoK and WoR:

Kaladin remembers in WoK that _Tien_ wanted them to go to the Shattered Plains shortly before his death - another hint that Tien was a budding Radiant and was somehow drawn to Dalinar?

 Parshendi knew about the Honorblades. They were terrified at the evidence of surge-binding from Kaladin and Eshonai tried to calm them down with the notion that he may have had a Honorblade. Amusingly, Mr. T used the same idea as a lie to keep Szeth under his thumb.

Parshendi had very well-made steel weapons decorated with beautiful glyphs when they first met the Alethi... yet they were also completely illiterate and have forgotten even the notion of written language. Venli allegedly re-invented one from scratch. So, where did their weapons come from?

Diagramm is a huge organization with lots of members and resources, despite only existing for 5 years. The guy who recruited Szeth had a Soulcaster, Graves had Shards, all of T's guards who were with him in Vedenar were also members, there was a substantial cell in the warcamps, and, of course, all the "Silent Gatherers". Really odd that there wasn't a single leak.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Isilel

[digitalbusker]

7 hours ago, Isilel said:

Parshendi had very well-made steel weapons decorated with beautiful glyphs when they first met the Alethi... yet they were also completely illiterate and have forgotten even the notion of written language. Venli allegedly re-invented one from scratch. So, where did their weapons come from?

Probably scavenged from the ruins of Stormseat.

[Song]

I can't think of things I missed but somethings take on deeper meaning. Re-reading Way of the King, and seeing how much Adolin wishes he could meet the Blackthorn of the stories, that his Father could go back to the warrior he was, just shows how little he really knew of his Father and his past.

And seeing the way that Dalinar cares so sweetly for Renarin in WoKs is such a stark contrast to what we see in the Dalinar flash backs. 

[Isilel]

12 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

Probably scavenged from the ruins of Stormseat.

4.5 thousands years old steel wouldn't be in particularly good shape, though, even less so in a relatively humid climate. And also, Stormseat was allegedly destroyed during Aharietam, and we have seen in Dalinar's visions that humans only had access to primitive bronze weapons at that point.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

On 1/6/2018 at 7:33 AM, Isilel said:

Oh, and BTW, I suspect that Amaram's flute collection was explicitely mentioned as a foreshadowing for somebody finding Hoid's flute in his effects.

That would be awesome! Nice catch

I missed that Ulim, the voidspren that lead Venli to Eshonai's corpse in Venli's first interlude was a red voidspren. I thought that all of Odium's voidspren were yellow and made a huge speculative mountain out a mole-hill that I didn't even get the details right on. But that's the beauty of the 17th shard, erroneous ideas are quickly corrected and good information reigns supreme.

I also missed that the large army of dark spren milling around the Oathgate in Shadesmar were used to bond with Sadeas' troops to create the Thrill puppet human army at the battle of thaylen fields, first time through I thought it was just the super-powered effect of the Thrill that turned their eyes red.

[maxal]

8 hours ago, Song said:

I can't think of things I missed but somethings take on deeper meaning. Re-reading Way of the King, and seeing how much Adolin wishes he could meet the Blackthorn of the stories, that his Father could go back to the warrior he was, just shows how little he really knew of his Father and his past.

This, we could get out of the narrative from the previous books. It was heavily hinted Adolin only had an twisted vision of his father's former self: he never actually saw the Blackthorn in action, he just heard washed-up tales only made up for him to worship his father even more. OB showed us just how bad Dalinar really was and how Adolin has been emotionally manipulated to hero-worship him and to take every critic as if he was to blame.

8 hours ago, Song said:

And seeing the way that Dalinar cares so sweetly for Renarin in WoKs is such a stark contrast to what we see in the Dalinar flash backs. 

This, I don't think it was possible to grasp within the previous books. My impressions, at the time, were Dalinar doted more on Renarin out of him being sick: a natural response to a disabled child. OB showed us what I read as over-protection for a sick boy instead was over-compensation for having been a crap father to his youngest son. OB also showed how the father and his youngest son bonded in ways Dalinar never bonded with Adolin. My new impressions are Renarin is the only one having really seen his father for whom he was, having seen his father broken down, vulnerable and this, it created "something" in between those two despite Dalinar having basically ignored Renarin all his life. I am not sure what yet, but this is how I am interpreting it at the moment.

Things I have probably missed: how self-focus Dalinar really is and how cold his love his. It feels to me, after reading OB, Dalinar is very inward and will not look into how his actions may influence other people unless it is pointed out to him.

[digitalbusker]

10 hours ago, Isilel said:

4.5 thousands years old steel wouldn't be in particularly good shape, though, even less so in a relatively humid climate. And also, Stormseat was allegedly destroyed during Aharietam, and we have seen in Dalinar's visions that humans only had access to primitive bronze weapons at that point.

The in text evidence for when it was destroyed is a little on the thin side, but even if it was, it had a working Oathgate, so it had access to the best tech and tools of the time. As for how they were preserved... Shrug emoji. But I don't see any hints of a better explanation.

[Kered]

Missed that it was a Sleepless cremling Hoid was talking to at the end of WoR.

Hoid gaining something in every epilogue. A Cryptic in OB, information from Jasnah in WoR and Taln's Honorblade in WoK().

Cultivation's plan for Dalinar. I thought she was just "cultivating" Dalinar, giving into her Intent and not actually opposing Odium. 

The clues of Ash possibly becoming a Dustbringer. 

 

[wotbibliophile]

On 1/7/2018 at 9:48 AM, maxal said:

Things I have probably missed: how self-focus Dalinar really is and how cold his love his. It feels to me, after reading OB, Dalinar is very inward and will not look into how his actions may influence other people unless it is pointed out to him.

I gave you an up vote for this. If there is a Dalinar bashing thread please point it out to me. I really dislike him.

[Bort]

On 1/7/2018 at 11:18 PM, Kered said:

Hoid gaining something in every epilogue. A Cryptic in OB, information from Jasnah in WoR and Taln's Honorblade in WoK().

Hoid doesn't have the Honorblade. Yes, the Honorblade was switched out by someone, but we don't know who. We have WoB that Hoid doesn't have it though.

[Kered]

7 hours ago, Bort said:

Hoid doesn't have the Honorblade. Yes, the Honorblade was switched out by someone, but we don't know who. We have WoB that Hoid doesn't have it though.

I've seen it, but it doesn't dispel the possibility that he had it at one point or was the one that made the switch in the first place. 

[Govir]

1 hour ago, Kered said:

I've seen it, but it doesn't dispel the possibility that he had it at one point or was the one that made the switch in the first place. 

There's a WoB on that as well.

WoB

Quote

 

Questioner 2

Did Hoid switch out the blades?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid did not switch out the blades, but good question.

 

 

[StormingTexan]

I'm sure I missed several things in WoK and WoR but since Ive re-read them so many times it is hard to remember. The thing that drives me crazy though is not figuring out Azure sooner. I mean I suspected EVERY single new female character but her. I knew she was going to be in OB... It wasn't until she made the white on black comment that i figured it out. Brandon literally named her a color and I still didn't catch it..