Words of Radiance Reactions (SPOILERS)

[bookspren]

So after several days of nothing but reading, I can sum up my reaction to WOR in one word: WOW!!! Never before have I eaten with one hand while holding a book with the other, but I couldn't stop reading long enough to eat. Twenty out of ten stars. The few minor gripes are negligible. So here's a few select reactions.

 

Jasnah dead! NOOOOOOO! She can't be; she's way too cool to be dead. She has to come back.

 

So that's where Gaz went.

 

'Atta girl Shallan. Make Jasnah proud.

 

Hahaha, you stole his boots hahaha. 

 

"Being offensive and asinine is your job?" "No, I'm offensive and asinine on my own time too." still laughing way too hard about this

 

...All right, taking down Szeth..Wait WHAT NONONONONO please no...Oh YEAH!! And Hobber's still alive, nice.

 

Be careful, Shallan, are you sure you know what you're doing?

 

...Wit! and more Wit and even MORE Wit  *fist-pump*

 

...Dalinar, you honestly made Amaram a Radiant after what Kaladin told you. Ugh, I am so fed up with you right now.

 

...the whole chasm scene, just brilliant, hilarious, and poignant

 

Several hundred (worrisome) pages later... whoa Voidbringers, and Szeth, and Elhokar is Dalinar's Tien, and Syl's alive *cries a few tears of joy* and, and Urithiru and and AHHHHHH too much awesome!!! Brain overloaded! 

 

Elhokar and Lopen's mom...just thinking about it cracks me up, that was great

 

Yeah go save your parents and show Roshone who's in charge now. Also Dalinar is arguing with the Stormfather..cool.

 

Whoa, Adolin, that was dark. I mean I hate Sadeas and all, but just stabbing him in the eye 'cause he made you mad. I've got a bad feeling about this. And of course dropping a Shardblade out a window is brilliant move, what could possibly go wrong?

 

Haha, Hoid getting philosophical again and...HA I knew you weren't dead, Jasnah. 

 

Oh and "do you want to destroy some evil?" Not good.

 

Since I could go on for hours, let me just say WOR is one of the best books I have ever read. It took me on a quite the emotional roller-coaster. I will definitely need a reread soon. I must admit I started reading as fast as possible after Syl disappeared because I was terrified she would actually be dead.

Edited March 12, 2014 by bookspren

[Jedidiah]

The entire book was incredible. The scene where Syl "claimed" Kaladin while he said the words was one of the most epic scenes in any book I've ever read. I could hear the music swell (my internal soundtrack to the book, sorry), I got chills, I laughed, I cried, it was great. 

[kaos]

You know, I'm not sure if some one else mentioned this but where did Jasnah get the Stormlight to Elsecall back from Shadesmar? Are there highstorms or their cognitive equivalent there? Do Surgebinders not need stormlight in the Cognitive realm?

 

It was implied she was there for at least a month, maybe more so her spheres probably would have ran out.

Edited March 12, 2014 by kaos

[Guest Shash]

 

@Prognosis; Some of Taravingian's ideas when he's at his most brilliant are utterly awful (wanting anyone below a certain IQ to kill themselves or only allowing smart people to reproduce). As far as I'm concerned this is enough of an indicator to throw his diagram into significant doubt (as well as it seeming to fail to account for Kaladin/the KR).

 

Well the Diagram does account for the Knights Radiant - or, at least, for Surgebinders. And the sterilization of undesirable people actually is a fantastic idea for society. Think about it - for hundreds of thousands of years, it's been a struggle for human beings to survive. Only the strongest did. Now, in the last few hundred years, life has become a cake-walk. You can be a drug addict with six children by four different men with no job and just expect a government handout. In the past, this sort of person would have died. Now we support them, and it's bad for the species. In fact, not only has Survival of the Fittest been worked around - we go to great lengths to ensure the survival of our physical and intellectual inferior. It may be trendy to say, "Oh, yeah, that guys evil! How mean of him to want to better the lives of those who deserve it at the expense of those who don't rather than better the lives of those who don't deserve it at the expense of those who do! What a terrible guy!" But the fact is, it would be inarguably better for the species if the dregs of society were removed.

[Sabrina Stormshard]

I loved this book. So many Cosmere easter eggs.

 

Some of my faves:

 

Vasher!! All the colour metaphors! Love it!

 

Forget a jaw-dropper this was a book-dropper:

Nightblood being all "Hi Szeth"

 

Radiant Renarin I love me the weird ones  

 

Dalinar BONDED the Stormfather!

 

Finally getting the names of all 10 orders: Windrunner, Skybreaker, Releaser/Dustbringer, Edgedancer, Truthwatcher, Lightweaver, Elsecaller, Willshaper, Stoneward, Bondsmith, and the names and sort-of descriptions of the 10 surges - that said we really need to ask Brandon what he means by 'Axial interconnection'

 

Oh yes, shardblades and spren, finding out why Szeth's truthless and Taravangian’s super creepy master plan.

 

Oh! And Hoid drinking some powder in his wine. Allomancing it up!

 

Going to be re and re-re and re-re-re-reading this for weeks!

[Mikanium]

I missed the powder? When did Hoid do that?

[Sabrina Stormshard]

I missed the powder? When did Hoid do that?

 

In one of the Shallan flashbacks. He's the messenger to Shallan's Dad about Helaran at the (I want to say tournament? fete?) Something like 'he spots shallan and his eyes widened and he dumped powder in a drink' shallans all 'omg poison!' but then he drinks the powder/drink himself 

[pescab]

Everyone is hating on the Shallan/Adolin/Kaladin love triangle, but I'm really into it.  Kaladin/Shallan in the chasms was hot. There was not enough description of how they felt about huddling up so closely in that shardblade-created hole together.

 

 

I like that the live spren shards don't need to be a sword (e.g., a spear for Kaladin).  I wonder what favored weapon forms the other Radiants' spren might take.

 

I'm having trouble keeping track of all of the different conspiracies - the Ghostbloods, the Diagram-ers (do they have a name?), the constables that are with Darkness, whoever Amaram is aligned with, etc.  

[Sabrina Stormshard]

I'm not totally into Kaladin/Shallan (Shaladin? Kallan?) but I'm super looking forward to the confrontation when Shallan realises Kaladin, not Amaram killed her brother.

 

Me? I'm hot for Renarin. Creepy love forever

[Teccam]

Everyone is hating on the Shallan/Adolin/Kaladin love triangle, but I'm really into it.  Kaladin/Shallan in the chasms was hot. There was not enough description of how they felt about huddling up so closely in that shardblade-created hole together.

 

 

I like that the live spren shards don't need to be a sword (e.g., a spear for Kaladin).  I wonder what favored weapon forms the other Radiants' spren might take.

 

I'm having trouble keeping track of all of the different conspiracies - the Ghostbloods, the Diagram-ers (do they have a name?), the constables that are with Darkness, whoever Amaram is aligned with, etc.  

 

I think Amaram's association is the Sons of Honor, isn't it? Wonder what their goals will be now that the Voidbringers are back. We leave Amaram as he sets out for Urithiru, which will certainly make for some intrigue. Not sure how he intends to get there in the first place, and even if he does make it, I can't imagine the welcome will be too cheery.... Which presumably means he'll be trying to fly under the radar. Meanwhile, the Ghostbloods have already proven capable of doing just that. Mraize is definitely in Urithiru and probably looking for things that no one else (except perhaps the Diagram) knows about.

 

I didn't get my book until Sunday evening (Barnes & Noble cancelled my preorder!) and it took until yesterday night for me to finish it. I was up until after 4:00AM and now I'm running on fumes. But so worth it! There were so many amazing moments and sequences in this book. I can see why Shalladin is a lame ship on some level, but I can't help but root for that pairing anyway. I don't want it to get tacky though; tension for tension's sake is usually pretty easy to notice.

[kaos]

   

Well the Diagram does account for the Knights Radiant - or, at least, for Surgebinders. And the sterilization of undesirable people actually is a fantastic idea for society. Think about it - for hundreds of thousands of years, it's been a struggle for human beings to survive. Only the strongest did. Now, in the last few hundred years, life has become a cake-walk. You can be a drug addict with six children by four different men with no job and just expect a government handout. In the past, this sort of person would have died. Now we support them, and it's bad for the species. In fact, not only has Survival of the Fittest been worked around - we go to great lengths to ensure the survival of our physical and intellectual inferior. It may be trendy to say, "Oh, yeah, that guys evil! How mean of him to want to better the lives of those who deserve it at the expense of those who don't rather than better the lives of those who don't deserve it at the expense of those who do! What a terrible guy!" But the fact is, it would be inarguably better for the species if the dregs of society were removed.

Not really. What would happen is that you would, at best, bring up the average temporarily. But then things would just even out again. People would still [REDACTED FOR LANGUAGE] end up as the "dregs of society" whether through their own fault or someone elses. People would still take advantage of one another, fortunes could still flip surprisingly because life is volatile and while predictable to some extent still has random elements.

 

Take Tarvas suicide plan. Even if everyone below a certain curve did take themselves out of the gene pool there's no garuntee that the next generation would necessarily be better than the one before. At best you would increase the average iq by a couple of points maybe. But even if it worked perfectly you would eventually just feel the same as you did when you started and be forced to "move the goalposts" again to the point where .

 

Plus society (or at least most societies) only work if someone is at the bottom. By getting rid of the bottom you won't necessarily make everything beter, you would just end up bringing "bad" higher up. And human nature would still shine through. Killing off all the criminals just means there is an opening for more criminals to take a bigger slice of the pie with less competition and stupider prey because they got used to life with no criminals. And eventually things would just even out again. 

 

Smart Tarva is arrogant and also in many ways stupid. His plan was unfeasible and the fact that he was too stupid to see all the ways it could wrong just underscores how mistaken he is about how useful raw brainpower is. Unless you get so smart you can successfully predict the future I guess. You would have to take into account human nature to make the Diagram as spot on as it apparently was meaning super smart Tarva was at least smart enough to realize his own shortcomings and compensate for them. 

 

Ugh, I hope that's coherent. Also in retrospect I don't think your post was about Tarva and his relative intelligence at all? Whatever.

Edited March 14, 2014 by FeatherWriter
Please watch your language.

[Moogle]

At best you would increase the average iq by a couple of points maybe. But even if it worked perfectly you would eventually just feel the same as you did when you started and be forced to "move the goalposts" again

 

While I'd like to note that I think T's plan for the suicide of half of his city was stupid, I think you're underselling the effect it would have on the population if everyone were a few IQ points higher. Also, IQ is 50% (or more) heritable, so it would also be far more dramatic than just a "few points".

 

Plus society (or at least most societies) only work if someone is at the bottom. By getting rid of the bottom you won't necessarily make everything beter, you would just end up bringing "bad" higher up. And human nature would still shine through. Killing off all the criminals just means there is an opening for more criminals to take a bigger slice of the pie with less competition and stupider prey because they got used to life with no criminals. And eventually things would just even out again. 

 

I'm confused by this assertion. You're saying that because people are now smarter on average, criminals will now have stupider prey?

 

Your first point on societies only working if someone is at the bottom seems to be a statement without anything backing it up. Could you expand more on this point?

 

Smart Tarva is arrogant and also in many ways stupid. His plan was unfeasible and the fact that he was too stupid to see all the ways it could wrong just underscores how mistaken he is about how useful raw brainpower is.

 

I think it has less to do with raw brainpower being useless and more that Taravangian's curse makes him insane (until he's Diagram-level, then he's insane enough to actually make decent ideas).

[kaos]

1. While I'd like to note that I think T's plan for the suicide of half of his city was stupid, I think you're underselling the effect it would have on the population if everyone were a few IQ points higher. Also, IQ is 50% (or more) heritable, so it would also be far more dramatic than just a "few points".

 

 

2. I'm confused by this assertion. You're saying that because people are now smarter on average, criminals will now have stupider prey?

 

Your first point on societies only working if someone is at the bottom seems to be a statement without anything backing it up. Could you expand more on this point?

 

 

3. I think it has less to do with raw brainpower being useless and more that Taravangian's curse makes him insane (until he's Diagram-level, then he's insane enough to actually make decent ideas).

1. You may be right. I admit, I don't know how effective only smart people breeding would be. I assume that IQ would be less a factor than personal motivation, interests, etc. People are often different and I personally believe that circumstance contributes as much to IQ as parentage. I don't have any hard evidence to back it up though, and the feasibility of the plan is, again, non-existent. I admit I could be wrong on this point though.

 

2. I am saying that if you managed to kill off all the criminals in a generation people would lose the habits that kept them protected from criminals. Then someone would notice the opportunities he would have if he became a criminal and bam, criminals are back. Unless a group constantly deal with a problem the group would lose the skills it needs to deal with the problems. If you don't practice you can only get worse. Of course this applies to criminals as well, and the new generation of them would probably suck at it. But as they got better and society got better at repelling them you would just reach equilibrium again, with the added bonus that whatever magical way you got rid of them in the first place probably won't work again as they will be prepared for it.

 

As for society thrives on someone being at the bottom, well, and this is American society specifically I am talking about, resources are scare. If they weren't scarce we could, conceivably, have a perfect society. However since there is a limited amount for everyone everyone is going to be fighting for what they can. And people who have the most resources have the ability and inclination to protect their resources and gain more. However the only way to do that is to, proverbially, take it from someone else. Taking it from someone with as much resources as you is harder and more dangerous so it is much easier and expedient to take a little from a lot of people under you. If everyone at the top does this, and they will because they have no reason not to, the people at the bottom are left with less resources to change their situation and have to use the resources they do have to just survive. It's sort of a Catch 22. You can only get a lot of resources if you already have a lot of resources. This is hella simplified (for example I didn't mention how it's necessary for a stratification of society (i.e. The Incredibles Principle: If everybodies special then no one is.) If everyone is rich the no one is or vice versa for poor.), but I think you can sort of get the gist of what I am talking about.

 

3. Valid interpretation.

[amberauthor]

SZETH HAS NIGHTBLOOD?!?!?! (seriously. this is a big deal. possibly the biggest deal in the whole book)

 

 

I don't know why we aren't freaking out about this more... Nightblood is on ROSHAR. that menas the freaking Heralds have been worldhopping.

 

What the HECK happens to a sharblade and nightblood when they meet?!

And if it is a live Shardblade, like Syl and Pattern... Would there be a difference? When Szeth said he didn't have a Shardblade, Nalan threw him Nightblood.

Also, in Warbreaker, anyone who held Nightblood ended up killing themselves. Casher was the only one to unsheath the sword, and Nightblood (quite quickly, might I add) consumed Vasher's Breath. So what happens to someone on Roshar, who presumably, does not have any Breath weilds Nightblood the same way Vasher did?

Edited March 14, 2014 by amberauthor

[Teccam]

 

SZETH HAS NIGHTBLOOD?!?!?! (seriously. this is a big deal. possibly the biggest deal in the whole book)

 

 

I don't know why we aren't freaking out about this more... Nightblood is on ROSHAR. that menas the freaking Heralds have been worldhopping.

 

What the HECK happens to a sharblade and nightblood when they meet?!

And if it is a live Shardblade, like Syl and Pattern... Would there be a difference? When Szeth said he didn't have a Shardblade, Nalan threw him Nightblood.

Also, in Warbreaker, anyone who held Nightblood ended up killing themselves. Casher was the only one to unsheath the sword, and Nightblood (quite quickly, might I add) consumed Vasher's Breath. So what happens to someone on Roshar, who presumably, does not have any Breath weilds Nightblood the same way Vasher did?

 

 

Why should Nightblood's presence on Roshar indicate that the Heralds have been worldhopping? I don't think there's official WoB/WoP on Zahel being Vasher, but it's all but certain regardless. It seems more likely that Vasher brought Nightblood when he came from Nalthis to Roshar.

 

I think there must be a difference between a KR spren blade vs. a dead/traditional Shardblade. When spren die, don't they either (a) revert to the simple minds like their unbonded cousins, or (b) return to power the Shard from which they came (presumably by returning to the shardpool)? Since the Shardblades left over from the last Desolation are essentially dead spren as is, I feel like Nightblood wouldn't affect them much differently than a normal sword. But I wonder if he might "kill" Syl if he ever cut her in Blade/Spear form....

[taliefer]

this book was "wow". ive never had a book make me physically ill (in a good way) like it did when dalinar allowed kaladin to be imprisoned. i felt sick to my stomach, i could feel kaladins...i dont know the word. it was powerful.

 

i also thought kaladin "ate" syl during that fall since she screamed and he immediatly felt the little jolt of stormlight,  and was horrified.

 

and then it just got awesome from there on out. from pits in my stomach to a smile in my soul.

[FeatherWriter]

 

Why should Nightblood's presence on Roshar indicate that the Heralds have been worldhopping? I don't think there's official WoB/WoP on Zahel being Vasher, but it's all but certain regardless. 

 

I don't have a link, but that one was definitely confirmed by Peter at least.

[Golden Knife]

Listened to the audio book, so it took days to get through (though I did stay up far later than I should have to finish the last several hours) which tempered my reactions somewhat, I think. Also, first post on these forums, please be kind...

Wow, oh no, nononononono, and Yes, finally! at appropriate moments.

Kaladin delivers the grumpy and the badass, Adolin the cheery and the badass, Shallan the overcompensatingly clever and the terrifyingly cold badass. I still quite enjoyed the developing dynamic with these three. Kaladin understands your social awkwardness, Renarin, because outside of being The Captain, he has similar problems! Behold his Grumpy Glory!  Dalinar (still badass) and Renarin (trying!) clearly had things going on, but they were somewhat out of focus in this book- hopefully more with them next time.

I really wish we could have seen more of Dalinar's plans and thoughts about the Amaram & Kaladin situation, because when and why he decides to move beyond a simple investigation of Kaladin's claims to a Secret Test of Character for Amaram seems like a vital piece of information for Kal and Dal's relationship going forward.

I was rather annoyed that the only thing holding Shallan back from being Roshar's most Stupendous Badass was her own mind/ tendency to disassociate: none of her external conflicts ended badly for her. She bullies Tvlakov into doing her bidding, Turns the Deserters to her Side, plays at politics with HighPrinces, infiltrates the Ghost Bloods, etc etc without much more than temporary wobbles. Compared to Kaladin (and Dalinar, in tWoK)'s failures and the consequences (Chaos of the Sidecarry in battle and being strung up in a HighStorm; getting caught between two promises and losing Syl; Trusting Sadeas and getting betrayed at the Tower).... Shallan doesn't fail at anything important. I expect/hope that she'll get knocked down more in the next book.

 

RE: the ends

 

Ah, Jasnah, you'll have to up your game to reclaim Shallan as your ward, I think.

 

Nightblood....!
I think I might be the only one who immediately assumed the Szeth was brought back as some form of Lifeless, perhaps having his own Breath-equivalent and thus most of his mind returned to him? Or a Returned, dependant on Stormlight instead of Breath- not true resurrection, but something like it- I am not copacetic with Fabrial-based Resurrection, but Fabrial Created Lifeless, that seems plausible. Came Back Wrong(er) + Szeth-the-MAD-Truthful = Flying Zombie assassins!

And what is with Author's love of Zombies? Really, has that question been asked: Mr. Sanderson, you never call your zombies the Z-word, but they do show up a lot: Elantrans, ForgedEmperors, Lifeless, Mistwraiths/Kandra- Hang on, just realized the dead shardblades are actually spirit-zombie swords! OMG Shardblades are ZOMBIE SWORDS!!! One moment while this post goes off the rails completely.....

 

I repeat, Dead Shardblades are Zombie Swords. ZOMBIE SWORDS!!!!

[FlatLine]

I didn't realize that the end sword was nightblood. It's been too long since I've read his other books, need to go do that... It'll be interesting to see how it interacts with this new world. I would think that it would kind of shape to it. It's now a shard blade, but it isn't a dead spren, it has it's own conscious. So it's like a spren to Szeth, which means he could get surge powers, though I wouldn't bet my money on it. Interesting stuff. Also I'm guessing Szeth is going to be very evil now, mostly because he didn't feel sick around nightblood. I'm just imagining what the next book will be like, to much awesome! 

 

I totally had Jasnah dead and I was fine with it, maybe because I didn't have the first book fresh in my mind. So it was a surprise at the end. 

 

Adolin became my favorite character. I just loved how he ended up not being your typical light eyes. There were just little things that showed that he was different. Do we know if he gets his own book? I feel like he has a lot of secrets left untold. 

 

I probably missed a bunch of other things in the book too, like who was Jasnah going to get assassinated at the very beginning? 

 

It sounded like the Parshendi killed Graviler because he wanted to bring back their gods (and desolations), they didn't want that, but isn't that what they ended up doing with creating storm form? 

 

Overall a pretty darn good book, though I wish it wasn't so long of a series, it makes it hard to fully grasp whats happening. 

 

Oh one thing I didn't like: How it counted down and then nothing really happened even with the ever storm, but I guess crap will go down once it comes back. The end was really rushed is what I'm saying. 

 

I'm super mixed up with all the different organizations, so if someone could list those, that would be great. I like how we don't really know who is good and who is bad.

 

Well thats some of my very confusing thoughts....

[Cheese Ninja]

I do find Szeth's resurrection interesting, because I think there's a lot that Nalan's leaving out.  Szeth had taken a Shardblade slashes to his body, then to the spine, had his eyes burnt out from that, and then fell into a Highstorm on the Shattered Plains.  Next thing he's aware of, he's waking up in the Frostlands, which are several days travel away, and Nalan's slipping something into his pocket. (Which Szeth assumed to be a fabrial and Nalan implied as such.)  I was wondering if it involves Nalan's larkin, either for some unique quality of the larkin, or if it is possible to recover all the Stormlight a larkin has consumed to use to power some rather more extraordinary magic.

[AerionBFII]

So annoyed that Kal lost Hoid's flute had a load of theory's that are ruined now haha

 

Wonder if the Heralds have been spotted in different series? Will Hoid and Jasnah go Bonnie and Clyde?

so many questions! Best book i've ever read! Feeling more anticipation for Stormlight 3 than i ever felt for all 7 Harry Potter books!

[Teccam]

So annoyed that Kal lost Hoid's flute had a load of theory's that are ruined now haha

 

Wonder if the Heralds have been spotted in different series? Will Hoid and Jasnah go Bonnie and Clyde?

so many questions! Best book i've ever read! Feeling more anticipation for Stormlight 3 than i ever felt for all 7 Harry Potter books!

 

Brandon said at the Scottsdale signing that Hoid is very angry about Kaladin losing the trailman's flute, and that if Hoid manages to recover it, he would not give it to Kaladin again. When Hoid played the flute in WoK, it seemed like he was lightweaving. So did the flute itself grant Hoid lightweaving, or is it significant to Hoid for some other reason?

Edited March 15, 2014 by Teccam

[FeatherWriter]

I'm pretty sure Hoid has the ability to lightweave on his own. But I'm guessing the flute had some sentimental value, and I don't think Hoid gives his gifts lightly or to people he thinks might leave them behind. Silly Kaladin.

[FlatLine]

Brandon said at the Scottsdale signing that Hoid is very angry about Kaladin losing the trailman's flute, and that if Hoid manages to recover it, he would not give it to Kaladin again. When Hoid played the flute in WoK, it seemed like he was lightweaving. So did the flute itself grant Hoid lightweaving, or is it significant to Hoid for some other reason?

 

I believe Hoid has light weaving abilities and that his flute allows him to make his illusions just like how Shallan has to draw for hers to work. 

[Era]

I think i know how jasnah survived. She was half in shadesmyr and the blade passed straight through her. Then she fully went into shademyr to escape.

 

I remember the scene when she killed those people in the alley, she transformed them all in an action sequence, i dont see how she could have done it if she went into shadesmyr each time, time would have to be a lot slower there which cant be true because she finally comes out at the end of the book and is too late.