Words of Radiance Reactions (SPOILERS)

[ssd6 he/him]

I tend to agree, love triangles are often frustrating things in my experience. That being said I also really liked the Shallan and Kaladin interaction/development and they both show sides of themselves I really enjoy seeing when around each other. So at the moment I'm caught between not wanting a love triangle and wanting Shallan/Kaladin to get together (which will likely take a love triangle). Also I wasn't really a huge fan of Shallan/Adolin despite it seemingly making both those characters happy, it just sort of appeared out of nowhere for me.

 

 

I agree, I do like the pairing of Shallan and Kaladin now, far more than Adolin and Shallan. Kaladin actually keeps Shallan on her toes in an argument and she puts him in his place too. I think Sanderson at the moment made it pretty obvious that's the direction he's going for. 

- Shallan so far has seen Adolin superficially, every scene with him she talks about his looks and it appears to be a major aspect for her. The first scene where she see's Kaladin in a good light, she thought he was brilliant (plus a few other deep thoughts about his personality) and hasn't really mentioned how he looked to her. Adolin to her seems to be a bunch of generalities, honorable, genuine and so forth, while Kaladin she's specific about what she see's in him. 

- Shallan has been fake around Adolin as well, being someone she was obviously not (at least in their first few encounters with each other), and she's only shown her true self to Kaladin.

- She compares the two and tries to convince herself Kaladin isn't all that great. 

- Future hurdles already in place with how Kaladin killed her brother on the field. 

 

The annoying part for me with this is that it's pretty obvious he's going in the Shallan/Kaladin direction, but he created this superficial relationship at the moment between her and Adolin as a "stop gap". I might be wrong, maybe it develops into something more, but right now it feels like Adolin and Shallan is just a way to slow down Shallan/Kaladin more than something really meaningful. I just really hope he doesn't go the route of having Kaladin pining and hating their relationship, he's done enough of that (as I said before). 

 

The whole Adolin and Shallan relationship developed much too quickly for my taste too. From getting to know one another and then all of a sudden finding safety in one another's presence like they've been together for a long time. 

Edited March 6, 2014 by ssd6

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Yeah, I'll admit, the Shalladin ship is... not a favorite of mine. I think it just feels really obvious to me, and the love triangle thing would be cliché I think. I love the Adolin/Kaladin dynamic in the last half of this book and I would be really annoyed if they started fighting over a girl. And Shalladin just seems like the low-hanging fruit here. Main male protagonist and main female protagonist? It's just really kinda obvious. And obviousness is not something I usually associate with Brandon. So there's a part of me that hopes that we're seeing this crush thing in this early book so that we can get it out of the way and realize "okay no wait, this actually isn't a good pairing for them, glad we got that out of the way."

 

I basically want Kaladin to be bickering besties with both Shallan and Adolin (It'd improve my opinion of the Shadolin ship too). I just kinda want Shallan and Kaladin having a "who can outclever the other one" competition and Adolin's just like "Whoa. Girlfriend is totally having a snark off with Bridgeboy and is holding her own, nice." And then Kaladin goes and complains about "all these dang stupid lighteyes" to Renarin who nods sympathetically but knows deep down that Kaladin's actually besties with both of them and cares about them a lot. Renarin very tactfully does not point out that he is also a "dang stupid lighteyes" because he has learned that Kaladin has excepted him from the "those lighteyes" group and he considers this a very high compliment. That'd be my preferred group dynamic with these Kaladin and Shadolin.

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

Is anyone else a little disappointed there was no spren-spren interaction? After Jasnah's statement in WoK about honorspren and cryptics being at odds, I was really looking forward to seeing how Syl and Pattern would react to each other. It seems with how often kaladin, shallan, and renerin were around each other, their spren really should have noticed each other (I know Syl glimpsed pattern during the arena fight but nothing came of that).

Edit: I should mention this was only a minor thing and overall really enjoyed WoR

Edited March 6, 2014 by Awesomeness Summoned

[Mr Horrible]

@Feather; I get that people seemingly dislike main characters getting together because it is done so often, however I think shalladin should be judged on the characters involved and their interactions rather than if they are main characters or not. On Kaladin's side I think Shallan has shown herself to be one of the few characters to genuiny put a smile on his face (previous to this it was only bridge four). On the other hand Kaladin was the first person Shallan ever shared her real past with, which i personally think is huge. I worry about Shallan getting caught up in her lies in the future what with her alter ego and all. That being said the snark between the two was delicious .

Something i wonder about though is that Shallan really should have put together Kaladin killing her brother by now. She knows Amaram has her brother's shardplate and I thought Kaladin also shared his history in the flood, a major part of which is Amaram killing his squad and taking the plate/blade (he only mentions omitting Syl).

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

Something i wonder about though is that Shallan really should have put together Kaladin killing her brother by now. She knows Amaram has her brother's shardplate and I thought Kaladin also shared his history in the flood, a major part of which is Amaram killing his squad and taking the plate/blade (he only mentions omitting Syl).

Kal glossed over the details of that part of his story in a way that didn't indicate he was the one that killed the shard bearer that attacked Amaram. When he realizes later on that he killed her brother he actually thinks back and confirms to himself that he hadn't told her those details when he related his story to her.

[ssd6 he/him]

Something i wonder about though is that Shallan really should have put together Kaladin killing her brother by now. She knows Amaram has her brother's shardplate and I thought Kaladin also shared his history in the flood, a major part of which is Amaram killing his squad and taking the plate/blade (he only mentions omitting Syl).

 

 

My guess is he's saving it for the right moment, where Shallan can confront him about it or something to delay the two of them getting together at some point. Seems like another cliche with the whole love triangle, I'm really not enjoying how he's progressing the love story in the series so far, other than Kaladin and Shallan being extremely well written when together in scenes. 

[Azul he/him]

Shallan is also very good at lying to herself so she may not have wanted to put the connections together. 

[Seloun]

My guess is he's saving it for the right moment, where Shallan can confront him about it or something to delay the two of them getting together at some point. Seems like another cliche with the whole love triangle, I'm really not enjoying how he's progressing the love story in the series so far, other than Kaladin and Shallan being extremely well written when together in scenes. 

 

 

Kal glossed over the details of that part of his story in a way that didn't indicate he was the one that killed the shard bearer that attacked Amaram. When he realizes later on that he killed her brother he actually thinks back and confirms to himself that he hadn't told her those details when he related his story to her.

 

This seems pretty explicitly being saved for Shallan's benefit, since the other major time she might have had information to figure this out (the challenge after the 4 shardbearer fight) Kaladin's challenge is phrased in a suspiciously vague manner. It's also really hard to imagine how Kaladin could have explained how Amaram screwed him over without describing his defense of Amaram (that's a huge reason why that event is so traumatizing). Conversely, when he talks to Dalinar he's pretty explicit about it (maybe a slight dancing around - he does mention a more general description first).

 

I have a feeling that this will hit pretty early in the next book. It seems like this bit of drama has to be 'saved' since if Kaladin is around, I think it'd be pretty easy for him to explain what happened. Alternatively, if Dalinar is the one to explain to her what happened, offhandedly without details, when she asks where Amaram went (since of course Dalinar conveniently doesn't know the relationship between Amaram's shards and Shallan), this leads to angst! and drama! as Shallan steeeeeeeeews while Kaladin is also conveniently away on his trip and unable to defend himself. Bonus points if the Ghostbloods provide a fake scenario to really cause her to freak out. Double bonus points of Pattern piles on due to the grudge against Honorspren.

[Zenith]

I have a list of sentences as reactions from when I read them. Full book spoilers, obviously, and warning for excessive caps and boldness.

Sooo, I didn’t start transcribing until chapter thirteen, where Pattern mentions spren…of him. I went, out loud no less, “woahwoahwoahwoahwoahwoahwoah.”That’s… Woah.

HAHAHAHA Shallan has to milk Knobweeds now whilst Kaladin just buys the sap. Irony!

Oh Pattern’s a recording device kthxbai.

AWWWWW YEAAAAAAAAAH. Kaladin decides to stick Amaram with a spear HECK YES. Wait, cancel that, a knife so he feels it going in. YEEEEEEEEAH.

Kaladin accepts Dalinar as honorable? YEEEEEEAH.

ASKDHVNEKVAWEKVNWEKNVAWEKVNAWKNKWEF SUCH CASUAL REVEALS! THE SHARDS WEREN’T ABOMANATIONS WHEN THE RADIANTS CARRIED THEM! THERE ARE MAYBE NO RIGHT PEOPLE FOR THEM ANYMORE MAYBE THERE NEVER WERE AIODFNJKF.NK;LGNFAJK;VN

SJLGHSJKDFBVFHLAKJCVH,BFL WHEN ONE PAGE LATER DARKNESS ARRIVES AJSDFHJK.DFHAK.JDFHASDJK.F HE HAS A SCAR ON HIS CHEEK AND IS WATCHING ADOLIN AND RENARIN AKGBVHJAEK.JFGHAJK.GHJ.AKSGHJK.ASGH when suddenly I found out he’s not planning to hurt them, unless he’s lying. Huh. Oh his name’s Zahel. Oh. He might not be Darkness….but they specifically mention the cheek scar, Kaladin can’t figure his age but thinks seventy is too young. Huh.

Renarin has to be chosen by a master. Please, Kaladin, take him and have him learn the ways of the spear and be buddies. /dreamswithnochance

Hahaha Rock’s the only one not strange. WOAHAOWAHWOAHOWHAofhiohoawefhakusdhfauk.fhawe.ufhUSILHGLUFHLIAUFHAWEUILFHLAWUI EFHAWKHTF,WUFHUAWEJ,FHAWEFWEAWE,FAWE,UFH SYL ADMITS SHE’S A PIECE OF A GOD SO VERY, VERY LIGHTLY BRANDON WHY DO YOU TORMENT ME AAAGH,A,JKSHGSGH,SDJFGH

You know, there’s a strange feeling of my chest. It’s kinda like dreams being crushed, and it’s not even about anything specific. Just the casual way in which all the reveals are given.

Darkness – Zahel took on Renarin. Interesting.

DKLBUHJSDFKBVHJKSFDBHSDJKFLBHSDFKLBHSDLFJBHSDFJKBHSLDFJK BRANDON NO BRANDON I LITERALLY JUST BANGED MY HANDS ALL OVER MY TABLE LIKE A KID HAVING A FIT, AND THEY STING SOMEWHAT. GAZ DESERTED THE ARMY. BRANDON WHY ARE YOU SO FLIPPANT WITH YOUR REVELATIONS!

Oh yeah, this should be before the last one chronologically, but he took Kaladin on too. Plus, he says they don’t have the right metaphors. Iiiiiinteresting.

AWWWW KALADIN’S TALKING TO DALINAR ABOUT AMARAM YEEEEEEAH.

Aaaand Dalinar didn’t listen so Kaladin’s going Vigilante. And I’m actually OK with this somewhat.

NIGHTFORM PREDICTING WHAT WILL BE…THAT’S WHERE THEY HAD VOIDBING=FUTURE TELLING OHHHHHH

Also I love how Elokohar loves Kaladin so much, haha.

The rail pulled free of the mountings…like they were falling up…

OK never mind mortar chipped at, carry on.

So decayform is like the lethal temptress….

Gaz spent some time around a lumberyard is all…huh…

This lot is crem, huh…bridgemen were crem…look where they got with a radiant leader.

What if there is something in Gaz’s darkness…

THERE IT IS AGAIN “’Spren are . . . power . . . shattered power. Power given thought by the perceptions of men. Honor, Cultivation, and  . . . and another. Fragments broken off.’ ’Another?’ Shallan prodded. […] ‘Odium’”

Huh, Cusicesh and the Nightwatcher are both considered spren. The Nightwatcher certainly isn’t, she’s Cultivation. I kinda like the theory that Cusicesh is an Adonalsium spren…

AHAHAHAHA Kaladin is more nervous getting on a horse than charging a shardbearer. YES.

Moash…guarding the balcony….Brandon!

Woah, slow down there epigraphs. Our gods were not who shattered these plains? Huhhhh….HUH…..

Huh, Eshonai is out on the plains…

I shouldn’t be drinking water whilst reading this, I almost spewed it out. The plain looks almost man-made…It IS…

WOAAAAAAH THERE. SHALLAN IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN SEE THE LIGHT AND IT’S HER MOTHER’S SOUL

SHALLAN MEETS BRIDGE FOUR LOL

KALADIN’S THERE YEEEEAH

SADEAS VIEWPOINT I SHOULD REALLY STOP WITH THE CAPS NOW.

Sadeas is going Mr. T here…

Hey Gaz is in this drawing.

400 or 500 pages later when I couldn’t record, here’s an overview:

IT’S SZETH AND HE’S ATTACKING AND KALADIN’S ARM NO NO NO NO NO HE HEALED IT! HE HEALED IT! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH

Shallan, give the man his boots back. Now.

YOU CAN MAKE NEW SHARDBLADES. WHAT. WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH.

(One fight against four shardbearers later)

AMARAM LEADS THE RADIANTS. HECK NO, HECK NO, HECK. NO.

ARRESTED!?! YOU. NO. NO NO NO NO. KALADIN, YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION FOR VENGEANCE.

…That fleet story. THAT FLEET STORY. I KNEW there was a reason I liked Wit. I KNEW IT! THAT WAS AMAZING. IT’S….AMAZING.

I…I didn’t mean against Elkohar. Uhm…I don’t know…

You know, I always hate going back to Shallan chapters, my chapters right now are Kaladin > Adolin > Interludes > Shallan > Shallan flashbacks. I didn’t really like Shallan chapters in WoK either.

This interested in a madman…This interested in…Taln?

Also, I forgot, Kaladin mentions that the Braize is indeed that place…

Also, Eshonai’s interludes remind me somewhat of Marsh.

And now, at page 1015….

I…I…I…I…I…I have no words for this. It’s beyond bold, italics, caps, and even underlining. Brandon made the first ideal just so appropriate, and the second is just SO. DANG. GOOD. I mean, rivaling when Kaladin speaks the first ideal, it’s THAT GOOD. That shardblade summoning? MY WORD. Brandon. I literally clapped out loud when I read this. I….can’t even. OH man, OH man, OH MAN. I AM JUST…WOAH.

THE SHARDBLADES ARE SPREN! THE SHARDBLADES ARE SPREN, AND KALADIN’S IS SYL AND SHE JUST TURNED HERSELF INTO A SHARDSPEAR! YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!

IT’S A SHARDSHIELD! YES YES YES YES YES! I KEEP RUNNING OUT INTO THE KITCHEN AFTER CLOSING THIS DOCUMENT ONLY TO RETURN A FEW PAGES LATER!

I KNEW THERE WAS A REASON I KEPT THIS DOCUMENT OPEN. I KNEW IT. KNEW IT. I’M SITTING HERE, BLANKY LOOKING AT THIS SCREEN AS I TYPE. DARKNESS HAS NIGHTBLOOD. NIGHTBLOOD. I’M STARTING TO THINK WHAT’S-HIS-FACE THE TRAINER…ZAHEL…ISN’T DARKNESS. MY WORD, BRANDON, MY WORD. THIS IS…THIS IS…I…WOOOOOAH.

I JUST RE-READ THAT. I RE-READ THAT. HE GAVE SZETH NIGHTBLOOD. HE GAVE SZETH NIGHTBLOOD. SZETH HAS NIGHTBLOOD RIGHT NOW.

I thought it wouldn’t get crazier. I was wrong. Adolin KILLED SADEAS.

Also, the parshmen are the voidbringers, regardless of whether they want to be or not. I like how he made it one of their forms…

DALINAR JUST BONDED WITH THE STORMFATHER…HE DOESN’T HAVE A BLADE, BUT STILL!

TRUTHWATCHER IS THE FOURTH RADIANT ORDER. IT’S RENARIN. FEATHER IS HAVING SUCH A GOOD TIME RIGHT NOW!

YESYESYESYESYES HOID EPILOUGE YESYESYESYESYSE

JASNAH LIVES!?!?!?!!? WHAT!?!?!?!?!

THEY’RE WORKING TOGETHER WHAT!?!?!?!?!?

[ssd6 he/him]

This seems pretty explicitly being saved for Shallan's benefit, since the other major time she might have had information to figure this out (the challenge after the 4 shardbearer fight) Kaladin's challenge is phrased in a suspiciously vague manner. It's also really hard to imagine how Kaladin could have explained how Amaram screwed him over without describing his defense of Amaram (that's a huge reason why that event is so traumatizing). Conversely, when he talks to Dalinar he's pretty explicit about it (maybe a slight dancing around - he does mention a more general description first).

 

I have a feeling that this will hit pretty early in the next book. It seems like this bit of drama has to be 'saved' since if Kaladin is around, I think it'd be pretty easy for him to explain what happened. Alternatively, if Dalinar is the one to explain to her what happened, offhandedly without details, when she asks where Amaram went (since of course Dalinar conveniently doesn't know the relationship between Amaram's shards and Shallan), this leads to angst! and drama! as Shallan steeeeeeeeews while Kaladin is also conveniently away on his trip and unable to defend himself. Bonus points if the Ghostbloods provide a fake scenario to really cause her to freak out. Double bonus points of Pattern piles on due to the grudge against Honorspren.

 

I think you`re right with your first point about being saved for when Kaladin isn't around; however, I don't think their feelings for one another have developed to the point where it'd be useful early in the next book. For Kaladin it seems he has realized he has some feelings for her but he's already conceded that Adolin and her make a good couple, so he won't be jealous/petty. Shallan seems to be fighting the idea she likes him at all and so far their doesn't seem to be any thoughts of Kaladin when she's with Adolin other than that one scene as they move out on the plateau.

 

Their feelings for one another seem like more of a growing thought for both of them and needs more interaction between the two before it becomes something deeper. I mean Kaladin obviously still hates light eyes to some degree and Shallan is still enamored with Adolin (at least how he looks) to the point she can push any feelings for someone else out. It just doesn't appear their feelings have developed to the point where it'd be a huge issue right now, I think it's more likely to come up when they've both given into their feelings and are on the brink of getting together. There's been too much work put into avoiding the issue up to this point for it to be used so early in a budding romance, at least to me. 

Edited March 6, 2014 by ssd6

[Azul he/him]

upvote for making me laugh so hard Zenith!

 

I pretty much had similar reactions to Kaladin vs Szeth round 1.

 

(Szeth shows up)  YES YES YES (gets up and dances a jig) here it COMES!  Shardspear incoming!

(Kaladin gets cut) what..?? wait?  what?!!  NONONONONONONONONONO!

(Kaladin heals)  YES! oh thank god YES what are you doing to me BRANDON!

[Shards of Mist he/him]

Love the book.  Pacing was a little slow early and a little rushed at the end, but still couldn't put it down at any point in time.  Nothing like going to work with zero hours of sleep because you were up all night reading.  

 

My thoughts: (Spoilers)

 

KALADIN:  His path was what it needed to be.  It was disappointing that he didn't become this awesome destructive force of power earlier, but it would've made things too easy.  I do hope that the darkness inside him is fully gone now and we don't have another book of him fighting himself though.  When Syl disappeared I was worried, although Kaladin now knowing he can kill her will keep him on the right path IMO.

 

SHALLAN:  Glad Jasnah "died" early on.  She needed to become her own person and not just be a clone of Jasnah with annoying quips.  I thought the way she interacted with her spren was well done.  Don't know what to think of her infiltrating the Ghostbloods.  It was obviously useful for building her abilities, but I think this is going to cause issues as she fights the truth and lies about herself in the next books.  I also think it's telling how she hates Pattern.  It an interesting dynamic when compared to how Kaladin loves and needs Syl.

 

DALINAR:  Glad that he realized he was a tyrant.  I also loved how Kaladin realized that Elhokar was Tien to Dalinar.  It'll be interesting to see the dynamic of Urithiru in the next book.  It's obviously not Alethkar and will be a mix of all peoples, once the Radiants figure out how to open the other gates.  Still, will Dalinar finally get over his own issues with ruling.  And bonding with the Stormfather?!!  Didn't see that coming.

 

ADOLIN:  Really came to like him(much like Kaladin did).  He's still a little too arrogant.  Still a little bit of a dullard, but there's big things in store for him in the future.  The ending with Sadeas was telling.  Adolin will have his own demons now.  Whether that'll invite good or bad things is the question.  Not all the "good" guys can stay good in a war with Odium.

 

SZETH:  Hate that he's still alive.  Severed his spinal cord, tossed by a Highstorm, fell thousands of feet and still revived.  Nin just happened to know exactly where Szeth's would fall after a thousand mile fight and flight against Kaladin.  :rollseyes:  Sorry, not ever gonna buy it.  Sure we needed someone to become a Skybreaker.  Szeth works because of how in Words of Radiance it talks about the debate between Skybreakers and the rest of the KR and it'll be even more pronounced in this version of the KR.  Still can't buy that revival.  Hate it even more because of the severed spinal cord.  It would be nice if killing a man with a Shardblade would be beyond ReGrowth abilities.  (Speaking of which.  Didn't know there were fabrials capable of this.  I'm guessing Nin captured Ym's spren?)  Will I look forward to the reaction of the others when they finally meet up with him again?  Sure, but that doesn't change my feelings on how he was killed and revived.  Furthermore, the whole first two books Szeth had a sword better than anyone else's.  The "greatest sword you could have on Roshar".  Now he has a better one.  another :rollseyes:  Although still geeked about Nightblood being on Roshar.

 

THE REST:  Amaram didn't die - F@$K.  Jasnah's alive - knew it, but YES!!  Gaz - Eh.  Thought I'd care more, but found I really didn't.  Elhokar -  He's got big things down the road.  Loved Lift.  Hope she turns up early in the next one.  

 

The best part of the book was the interaction between all the factions and all their scheming.  Wish it was a larger part of the book.  Taravangian was great.  Will be fun to see his continued attempts to rule the world, which I'm guessing will involve attempts to kill Dalinar/ other rulers.  Should make Urithiru a fun place to live!  Gavilar knew all of them.  Gavilar was apparently involved in all of them.  Don't know how Dalinar is so out of the loop on all of these given that his brother was apparently the common component between them all.

 

Shallan/Adolin/Kaladin:  Storms I hope not.

[Aminar]

Remember. Skybreakers can fly too. He followed at a distance, watching the fight.

[Guest Shash]

Strangely, Bluth's death hit me harder than Jasnah's. Everyone wants to be a hero. Everyone wants to be liked. Bluth's had given up on those dreams (every man dreams of being heroic) and accepted his lot as an underpaid mercenary guarding a slavery, which makes him despicable by association, who would eventually meet his death at the hands of some bandits. He'd almost certainly never live to an old age; never have a family. No wife to love him and no kids to look up to him.

He had no respect for himself.

Then he saw the picture Shallan drew of him. Of who he could have been. Of who he was still capable of being. He didn't outwardly show it, but when he committed to living up to this ideal version of himself, a man who was respected and capable of respecting himself, he probably felt inspiration for the first time in a long while. His head was probably full of all the changes he would make to himself. He was probably planning his new future; picturing the quality woman he would attract. Planning the lessons he would teach his sons, to ensure that they never lost sight of the men the could become and settled for a shadow of their potential.

The fact that he died before he could make any of those changes hit me hard. Maybe I'm reading too much in to it, but seeing him dead with Shallan's picture on his person, which was likely the most precious thing he had ever possessed....it moved me.

The rest of the book was fantastic as well...but this is what I love about Brandon's writing. How he can convey ALL of those ideas about a relatively inconsequential character without boring or bloating the plot is amazing.

[Gancho]

Overall the book did not disappoint - I literally could not sit still while reading the duel. A few thoughts/questions/gripes below:

Syl vs. Pattern - why didnt they notice each other? How come it took Syl forever to go from acting like a mindless windspren to understanding concepts like death, but Pattern progressed do much more quickly and was able to provide Shal with so much more insight advice not just on people politics, but in how to use her powers?

Kaladin

It bugs me that he thanked Dal for believing him! What you mean you believe me after basically telling me to stop being a delusional whiner and then rubbing salt in the wound by naming Amaram a radiant? Gee thanks.

Dal gave Kal every reason up believe there was no hope of justice and helped push him to the point of breaking his bond.

Dal had to suck it up for the greater good after Sadeas betrayed him and got his men killed, but at least after the fact it was acknowledged by those around him. What if instead, Elhokar had told Dal to stop being delusional and then thrown him in jail until he learned to stop spreading lies about a hero like Sadeas? Would he still think it was worthwhile trying to play politics and unite the princes while supporting Elhokar?

I do hope Kal's dark days are over, but I fear he'll find some new tragedy involving Roshone and his parents that will sorely test his oath to protect even those he hates. Not sure if I'll forgive him if he almost kills Syl again though.

Btw - why did Syl scream and the bond almost break when it did? It didn't seem like his attempt to save people from the bridge collapse was really the apex of his moral struggle.

Shallan

I like her progress, but dang she let a lot of people suffer for her over the years without coming forward with the truth (understandable, but still).

Her interactions and dialog were much better in this book. Those forced attempts at being clever in the last one were brutal - I listened to the audiobook a few weeks ago in lieu of a reread and wanted to stab my eardrums at some points, especially with Kabsal.

Not sure why everyone is hating on the Shalladin vibe. They make plenty of sense, plus Shal is basically the only woman in the story at this point. The idea of Jasnah/Kal is much worse, just because something is unexpected/unconventional doesn't mean it's a good story.

I'm really curious about where the story goes from here. At the end of the last book, I felt like I had a decent sense of the various factions and what the storyline would be in WOR, but right now I can't say the same about the next book.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Really, like I said before, it's not a characterization issue that makes me dislike Shalladin. It's a metatextual issue. Despite the fact that I found it well written for the most part the fact that they have been these two main characters and the fact that it seems to be setting up a love triangle still seems really boring and obvious. And, when I say "well written for the most part" I mean that there were some passages that felt forced to me, but I will also be the first to admit that when you don't ship something and there's shippy stuff between them on screen/page, you become hyper aware of things that aren't 100% perfect. So I'm probably being unfair with that one. But yeah, metatextual. It seems obvious and there are more interesting ways that I would have preferred to see that dynamic played with.

[Cromptj he/him]

I'm really surprised at how many theories turned out to be right.

[deddinty]

My own experience reading this: it was exactly the book I wanted to read, which is very rare with sequels.  Normally I enjoy being shocked and surprised by how much a sequel is different from what I expect, but this wasn't and I loved it more for that.

 

Also props to Brandon for at least making Shalladin plausible for a dedicated anti-Shalladin party.  I just hope the love triangle gets about as much attention in future books as in this one, though if it makes Shallan and Adolin act less sickly sweet I'll welcome it.

 

It's amazing how real the characters feel, in their bad choices.  They're not being obstinate and closed mouthed for "we can't just move the plot along that fast" reasons.  

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

the thing that both surprised me the most and pleased me the most was that by the end of the book, none of the main characters who have started forming the Nahel bond (Jasnah excluded) are "secret" about it anymore. Everyone who needs to know, does. I'm SOOO glad that didn't drag on through books 3 or 4. 

[don_karma_II he/him]

Did anyone notice that Pattern says that If You're looking for void spren you have to look in the mirrors. And Elokhar says the sprens from the mirror disappear when Kaladin is around!!! Elokhar sees Void spren?

[Falcon777]

Amazing Book! Seriously, it was one of the best reads I've had. I'm a big fan of beginnings and endings, so I can't necessarily say that I liked it better than TWoK, but that might change.

 

Perhaps the two places that I had some of the biggest reactions are

1:When Shallan forces Adolin to say "So yes, I, Adolin Kholin-cousin to the king, heir to the Kholin princedom-have shat myself in my Shardplate. Three times, all on purpose." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFLOL!!!!! I was laughing so hard for so long...oh my gosh, EASILY the most funny part of the whole book. It's incredibly hilarious, and as such is genius. Perhaps the nice thing about this series concerning this aspect is that, as epic fantasy readers, I'm not so sure that we are necessarily expecting humor. So, when it comes in the next books, and it will, it doesn't necessarily have to be "better" or "more grand" than the previous times.

 

2. NIGHTBLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!! Holy smokes!!! I was literally lying down on my bed when I read that, and then I jumped up and exclaimed "HOLY SMOKES! OH MY GOSH!!! IT'S THE SWORD!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!" I personally like this a lot. The reason for this is that this particular go around for the desolations is Honor's last attempt at stopping Odium for good. It's also Hoid's most direct attempt at destroying (not just stopping) Odium. Given Odium's nature, goals, and past actions, I personally like the bleeding of the cosmere. This series OUGHT to be the series where things from the other worlds come in. It's literally the stage of the universal battle of good vs evil, Honor Vs Odium. So yeah, major major props to Brandon for that.

 

Unfortunately, the second major reaction leads to a bit of a dissapointment for me. Sort of. The thing about the Knights Radiant is that they are attempting to imitate what the Heralds could do using the Honorblades via spren (or rather the spren are attempting to imitate, but mostly same thing). Szeth IS faster than Kaladin...but he doesn't have anything MORE than Kaladin. All of the abilities are the same, and Szeth has to use up MORE stormlight in the process as well. I don't know about you, but that's kind of underwhelming to me in terms of the greatness of the honorblades. Kind of. Szeth, while wielding the Honorblade, IS a badass as far as powers go. But once Kaladin get's past his issues, he is quite capable of matching the Shin. The only thing I can think of that could possibly make a large difference is if the Honorblades have more to them when they are held by the real heralds (notice that there is more than one that is still around, despite the fact that only Taln went back to Damnation). I really hope that there is more to the Honorblades than what has been shown. Also, it's quite cool to see Kaladin get the Honorblade since he is a Windrunner and Szeth is a Skybreaker.

 

As to the romance...meh. At first I was quite glad to see that Adolin and Shallan got along well. I could see the superficiality to it (what there was), while Shallan and Kaladin seem to have a certain depth. Also, there is the fact that Kholinar is in riots, so Adolin's title of being son to one of the high princes isn't really as significant as being a knight radiant at the moment (especially since the next desolation is around the corner). HOWEVER, I think that there is definitely a strength of commitment that Adolin has given to his relationship with Shallan. It COULD break, but I think Adolin is going to work harder for that relationship to function and stick than his previous ones. Besides, the poor guy literally doesn't have any other options. Kalladin has plenty since he's basically the leader of the Windrunner order.

 

Unfortunately for me, I have a tendancy to find little bits and pieces of spoiler material before I fully read the book straight through, so I knew about Jasnah being an Elsecaller before she was shown to return in the epilogue. The funny thing about it was that when the scene came where Jasnah was being killed, I only skimmed the read and didn't let myself reread that portion. I knew that being an Elsecaller would have allowed Jasnah to teleport/planeshift away from the boat, but the significance of her death was too important for me to possibly spoil by reading any possible foreshadowing. Wierd, huh? Another funny thing about it is that I really took Jasnah's death with a bit of dissapointment: I had wanted her to stick around and had felt that her character was killed off too quickly. So, when the epilogue came, I was pleasantly surprised and had to change my view on the feeling of the book. Wierd, huh?

 

As to the pacing of the book....yeah, it is a bit slow at first and a bit rushed at the end. I wasn't enthused about the time skips during the marching, though I understand why it had to happen.

 

And as to Kaladin:.........I've got mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, humans are incredibly liable to forget things. We do it all the time, and often we have to learn lessons multiple times before we will hold onto them. So, on top of the fact that Kaladin needed a reason to learn the third ideal, yeah I can understand his forgetfullness. Had he spoken the third ideal earlier, then the atmosphere and plot of the book would have been very different. But on the other hand, it has been pointed out that the third ideal of the windrunners is really just a subset of the first ideal of the Knights Radiant. AND, Kaladin had the full meaning of the first ideal explained to him. So, it does seem a bit odd that he would abandon his first two ideals so easily (and so quickly). On top of that he also doesn't really push Syl to explain the difference between being a Windrunner and a Skybreaker. She practically spells it out for him when she says he's not a Skybreaker after he mentions wanting to get veangence. It kind of seems like it should have been obvious that the former order is about mercy while the latter is about justice, but I suppose I have to give him the benefit of the doubt; he isn't living in the modern world like we are, so he doesn't have access to the plethora of books that we do and can't compare his life to that of other characters doing similar things.

 

Apart from that one issue (which forms most of what happened in the book), I like how he acts. He's quite protective of Dalinar, Adolin, and even the king earlier on. He doesn't really hesitate to jump into the fight with the four shardbearers, despite not having any plate, so that's cool. And of course his second fight against Szeth is AMAZING!!!! Interesting that the damage done by an Honorblade can be healed by Stormlight....

 

Shallan: I really like the character development here. Her backstory was significantly more obvious to me than Kaladin's, but that doesn't mean that her progression as a person and a Lightweaver weren't very well thought and and written. So, yes, I like her a lot more than I did before. She's not my favorite, but she's no longer on the list of characters that are irritating to me.

 

Dalinar: WOOT WOOT!! Bonding with the STORMFATHER???!!!! WOOOOOOWWW!!! Amazing! I'm really glad to see that Dalinar is going to live, and that he is now a Knight Radiant, specifically a Bondsmith. It's totally fitting for his character and his goals of uniting Alethkar.

 

Wit/Hoid: well done again sir. I definitely look forward to more of that coming.

 

Adolin: Adolin, Adolin, Adolin: what are we ever going to do with you? Perhaps you'll be a Dustbringer or Skybreaker? Otherwise I don't see you having the authority to kill off Sadeas. Obviously it's done in a veangeful manner, but seriously? That action took me by surprise. I can't exactly say I feel sorry for Sadeas, but killing people because they goad you is NOT a good thing. Sigh...well, except for that particular scene, I really like Adolin. He might even be my favorite character, though he's vying with Dalinar for that spot. His skill with Blade and Plate just makes him too much of a warrior tied to the fighting styles of the knights of old in England, France, and Germany for me not to really, really like him. The Stormlight Archive IS an epic fantasy, but it's just got so much about knights and chivalry that it's hard not to like the one guy that really seems to portray that sort of character; he's got his problems, so he's still human. But he's worked through most things that keep him from acting in a chivalrous manner. So yeah, I really like his character.

 

Jasnah: ME NEEDS TO KNOW MORE ABOUT ELSECALLING!!!! Teleportation ftw!

 

Szeth: Ah, FINALLY!! He finally acknowledges that everything he did was wrong and that he WASN'T Truthless. The Voidbringers and Knights Radiant really are back and his call to take up arms really was correct. It's really cool to see that he gets some absolution there. And being a Skybreaker? Very, very fitting. Despite my love for the Cosmere, I AM actually hoping that Nightblood doesn't completely overshadow the Honorblades. The latter are from this world, so it seems to me like they ought to be stronger here than Nightblood.

 

 

There's so much more that I would like to write, but I need to get this post out. And eat lunch. Yes, lunch would be good.

 

Falcon777

[junior]

KALADIN:  His path was what it needed to be.  It was disappointing that he didn't become this awesome destructive force of power earlier, but it would've made things too easy.  I do hope that the darkness inside him is fully gone now and we don't have another book of him fighting himself though.  When Syl disappeared I was worried, although Kaladin now knowing he can kill her will keep him on the right path IMO.

 

 

I don't think that we're done with Kaladin's inner darkness, yet.  Remember that he's returning to his home town.  That will most likely involve a confrontation with Roshone, who's currently the nobleman ruling Kaladin's home town.  And given what we've seen of Roshone both in WotK and WoR, I doubt that Roshone has left Kaladin's parents alone.  I'm sure that he's pulled some additional stunts in order to get his hands on the stones that Kaladin's father was "given".  It's entirely possible that what happened to Moash's parents has since happened to Kaladin's parents.

 

Also, Kaladin was asked to visit the capitol city after he visits his home town.  Given what we saw in Lahn's interlude, I suspect that Kaladin's going to become extremely angry once he finds out what triggered the riots in the capitol.

 

 

Gaz - Gaz hasn't been mentioned much in the comments about the book, but I think he bears looking at.  His conduct in this book seems to bear out the idea that he was more or less caught between a rock and a hard place in WotK.  He didn't like his job, but he was stuck with it whether he liked it or not - due to both the war and his debt.  And a particular troublemaking bridgeman wasn't helping things at all. 

 

In this book, once Shallan recruits him, he comes across as a puppy.  He's *very* eager to please Shallan - seemingly more so than even the other former deserters.

 

While I suspect that he's going to do his best to avoid the bridgemen, I don't think that will be entirely possible (given that the bridgemen are guarding Shallan's causal betrothed).  I suspect that both Shallan and Adolin will do their best to keep fighting between Gaz and the bridgemen to a minimum, but sooner or later I suspect that Gaz and Kaladin are going to need to work out their differences.

[junior]

Did anyone notice that Pattern says that If You're looking for void spren you have to look in the mirrors. And Elokhar says the sprens from the mirror disappear when Kaladin is around!!! Elokhar sees Void spren?

 

iirc, the incident that you're referring to is an insult directed at a specific individual.  The individual in question kept accusing Pattern of being a void spren, so he essentially threw the accusation back at the individual.

[lummi he/him]

I like Shalladin , it makes sense to me that they end up together + they scenes were very well written. In the end I challenge every person who says they don't fit together to a duel in the traditional alil’tiki’i fashion!

[Young Wolf]

I loved the book. I actually read it all as soon as I got my hands on it, not bothering to sleep or eat for 18 hours(not advised since this leads to huge headaches). I was worried that ,despite assurances, Brandon might slow down the plot to make the series stretch to the planned 10 books but this one was even faster than the first. 

Kalladin: He made me mad at him so many times. Such a stupid stubborn fool - If he had managed to kill Syl(who is my favorite character in any fantasy series - period) I would have forever hated him. It was heart rending to see Syl defy the StormFather a second time to come to him. I really hope his inner darkness is gone now - though how he will react to Roshone and Laral will be interesting(She wanted him to become Lighteyes and now he is one), maybe she will end up being his romantic interest(I'm grasping at straws here - I sincerely dont want to see a Shallan-Kaladin-Adolin love triangle) 

Shallan: She also grew up a lot in this book, and while Kalladin spent most of the book being stubborn and refusing to change, Shallan's growth was right from the start to the end. She had her own brand of stubbornness though in refusing to remember the past. She was the star of the book no doubt(though I am still more interested in Kalladin's storyline than hers). I loved her interactions with Kalladin - both as a Horneater Princess and in the chasm. The only gripe I have with her story is how easy it was for her to get Adolin to fall in love with her. He's a known womanizer who has been with every lighteyed woman in his father's camp and none of them tried to play hard to get?

Adolin: He honestly came across as the nicest guy in this book. Even when he didnt like Kaladin - he was open about it and didnt try anything against him(even warning Kaladin against riding that damnation horse). His voluntary imprisonment was awesome as well. However I cant help but feel that the way the story is going Adolin is going to join Odium - especially if Kaladin-Shallan relationship develops. Seeds of it were laid when he killed Sadeas(as satisfying as that was, it was still unsettling).

Dalinar: Didnt really see him do much - Bonding the Stormfather and how he handled the Amaram situation was awesome though. Can anyone tell me what a Bondsmith actually does? And whose Shardblade is he using - because that sure isnt Taln's honorblade?

Szeth: dissapointed in his story - it was too easy to make him believe Kalladin had an honorblade. That entire situation was unnecessary and seemed like stalling to me. Then when he died I wanted him to stay dead - damnation Nalan. And what is NightBlood and why is it so awesome(I havent read Warbreaker)? 

Jasnah: Again disappointed - I didnt want her to die but after she did she should have stayed dead. Too many people are coming back from the dead if you ask me, Next thing we know Gavilar is still alive and directing the Ghostbloods or something. 

 

Also was wondering does anyone here seriously ship Syl-Kalladin? I would like to join that bunch - though I have no idea how it would work considering Kal cant even touch her when she's not a killer shardblade.