[OB] Does anyone else like Jasnah?

[AC12 he/him]

I personally love Jasnah. Brandon does a great job at crafting complex characters and she is one of the best.

Spoiler

I love her conversation with Dalinar in Oathbringer about not letting others define you. Also, I usually hate characters coming back from the dead but this particular case didn't bother me. "Child, I am an Elsecaller." That quote explains it and the simplicity just adds to her overall awesomeness.

 

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I like Jasnah a lot. It helps that I identify with her because I am myself non-religious. (I also read her as asexual/aromantic like me but that's just my headcanon and I could be wrong about that).

She does have personality flaws but I don't find that having flaws stops me from liking her as a fictional character even if I might not like her as a person if I had to talk to her in reality.

[quaggan emperor]

 I love Jasnah Kholin so much.

 She's such a brilliant person, and I love her depiction in the books. A big part of my unconditional devotion to her stems from personal reasons, as she reminds me of a loved one.

 The dichotomy between empathy + emotional intelligence and intellectual intelligence* is a big thing in Stormlight Archive books, best exemplified with Taravangian, but also shown quite well with Jasnah's character. I wouldn't say that she is emotionally unintelligent per se, as she is shown to have awareness of how people react to her and how to present herself to achieve her goals. In Chapter 1 of Words of Radiance, Shallan notices that Jasnah takes time to cultivate her appearance and presence, and they have this whole discussion about authority. She also doesn't broadcast her discovery that parshmen are the Voidbringers to the rest of Roshar because she has enough foresight to know how it would go. Even when accepting Shallan as her ward, rather than dismiss her on the grounds of her lacking education, Jasnah showed impressive judgement by realizing the circumstances surrounding Shallan's learning and admitting her on more shaky, less definable grounds.

 Jasnah has emotions and is capable of showing empathy. She genuinely grows to care for her ward - after Shallan fakes suicide, she waits outside the hospital for her to wake up and shows genuine concern for her. The burden she carries is heavy enough to draw fearspren from her in Words of Radiance. 

 Why is that? The first thought that springs to mind would be that it's disadvantageous. There is no advantage in showing how scared she is to Shallan, considering that Jasnah is her mentor. There is no advantage in wasting time better spent teaching, strategizing, researching, on comforting each other. Jasnah is incredibly dedicated to her goal and spends pretty much every waking minute working towards it. She has no time to waste on emotions.

 The other reason could be simply that emotions aren't her preferred way to do things. Jasnah's weapons are truth and facts, the arsenal of a scholar. Emotion is subjective. Emotions are hazy. Jasnah searches for the one single truth as a Veristitalian. By arming herself with facts rather than opinions, she assures that even if her argument is defeated, a new truth will arise and enriches her knowledge. Even when examining Shallan's education, she shows no interest in something as subjective and hard to judge as art, choosing instead to focus on something she can actually evaluate.

 I do not claim to know whether Jasnah's people problems stem from actual decreased empathy, or simply the most human mistake someone can make: assessing others by one's own standard. This is especially crucial for people like Jasnah: highly intelligent and efficient to the point of appearing inhuman and flawless. It is shown in the scene where Shallan applies to be her ward: to Shallan - who is later acknowledged by Jasnah herself to have potential to be one of the greatest scholars of her generation - Jasnah's standards appear to be impossible to meet. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Jasnah has read every book she mentions by the time she was Shallan's age.

 This whole 'not understanding other people are not as perfect as she is' flaw Jasnah has going is truly amazing. After Shallan's faked suicide, she waits for her outside the hospital room to wake up, and shows real concern. I love this scene so much and it goes such a long way to humanize Jasnah. She apologizes to Shallan, acknowledges her flaws and makes efforts to mend their bond. Rather than a condescending 'she doesn't understand people because they aren't so smart as her' that never leads to anything, here Jasnah is confronted with her lack of understanding potentially leading to Shallan's suicide. While in the end, she was wrong and Shallan acted out of completely different reasons, it was still a moment Jasnah had to acknowledge potential consequences of her misunderstanding.

 This is why Shallan is the perfect character for Jasnah to interact and work with. Shallan trained herself from her childhood to make witty comments without thinking, so even when confronted with the full majesty of Jasnah Kholin, she still speaks her mind. As intimidated and awed as she is, her sincerity makes her so valuable. The downside to the presence Jasnah possesses is that she intimidates people - which makes Shallan, who can speak up despite it, so important. Jasnah is a scholar, a Veristitalian, she wants to know the truth more than she wants to be the one to speak the truth. She can reflect on peer review, even after rejecting Shallan, she keeps her mind open and allows her opinion to be changed.

 A big part of her character and something that sets her apart from the 'cold douchey genius' archetype is how she respects people's right to live their lives and freedom to do so. In her words, 'a woman's strength lies not in her role but in the power to choose that role'. Someone so brilliant and talented as her would have no trouble challenging the ardentia to religious debate and tearing down every single flaw in the doctrine. And yet, she doesn't do it. She doesn't preach. She accepts people's right to believe in the god she refuses to acknowledge. She will 'defend' herself if 'attacked', she easily shoots down the arguments of Kabsal and Taravangian, but it is a reaction, not an action. Her views are a bit more modern than most of the other characters when personal freedoms are concerned - a good example would be Shallan's causal betrothal to Adolin. Jasnah is genuinely worried that Shallan would be offended by her making such an arrangement, she sincerely believes that it was a violation on her part. I love the dialogue she has with Shallan, it really shows how clearly Jasnah prefers facts to emotions - rather than apologize for getting Shallan engaged without her consent or knowledge, she begins to outline the advantages in such a deal, benefits Shallan would enjoy, because in Jasnah's mind, those are clearly more important elements than her being sorry.

 Another aspect of Jasnah that I love is her willingness to admit to being wrong. I know, Jasnah being wrong happens so rarely, we don't see a lot of it, but bear with me. It is deeply tied to her being a scholar - the first thing any scholar must learn is to be wrong, to keep an open mind. Because the point of being a scholar is to learn the truth about the world, not decide the truth and enforce it. As a Veristitalian, Jasnah has to accept the truth. Being stubborn and persisting in an error is something I would say is out of character for her.

 Her acceptance of Shallan is the biggest piece of evidence I have. Jasnah rejects Shallan. But she allows her mind to be changed. She listens to Shallan's arguments, views her actions with an open mind and takes her as her ward in the end. She gives Shallan a second chance, first to further plead her case, and at the end of the book she still hears Shallan out after she's tried to hear her Soulcaster.

 Jasnah tries. Showing people her emotions and appreciation of them isn't something that comes easy to her. But she keeps working on it, rather than dismiss emotions as something inferior to her intellect. In chapter 7, she calls Shallan back to apologize for lashing out at her and to give her the things she left. She could have easily asked a parshman or a servant to find Shallan and give her her spheres back, but she instead chose to personally apologize. Shallan was a girl she just rejected, a child of a moderately important Veden house - there was no tangible benefits for Jasnah to acknowledge her faults and apologize to her.

 I love Jasnah's relationship with Shallan because it's so full of those moments. Jasnah values Shallan and struggles with her social shortcomings - something she never had to face earlier, as most of her relationship are either professional or family.

 Now that my rant is over I would like to say that I loved reading this thread and people's interpretations of my most beloved character, both positive and negative. I also hope that my language is acceptable - I frequently accidentally stray into tone I didn't mean to use, so if something I wrote sounds condescending or rude, please let me know and I will change it! 

 

* I couldn't find the proper word, if you know the right one, please let me know and I will edit.

[digitalbusker he/him]

Just driving by to say: anybody who feels the need to repeat the old saw about high intelligence and people skills not going together, please, just don't.

It's a cliche, it's toxic, and even if it's true (which I do not grant), who benefits from spreading it? What possible good is brought into the world from this idea, aside from giving people an excuse to feel better about their perceived lack of Attribute X by consoling themselves that at least they still have Attribute Y?

Take people as individuals. Don't get into the habit of believing you can infer things about somebody from one small piece. That way lies darkness.

[Arash.F he/him]

I am a heretic myself and i think i can partly understand her, since I'm also condemned and blamed by others most of the time for being an atheist! but my favorite one is Kal!

[Totally_Not_A_Worldhopper she/her]

I admittedly used to dislike Jasnah, but after OB, I've definitely warmed up to, and better understand, her. 

Also - I figured she was Demisexual. (Personal opinion, no evidence really).

[Humpty he/him]

I like her character but she makes me nervous.  I also do not really believe she is a real Radiant at all, anyone who seriously suggest Genocide as a legitimate solution to a problem is no radiant in my opinion. .. she seems to be a mere  surge-binder. (SHOCK!! omg your so wrong!!!) not really.... Think about what the first Ideal means for a bit then come back to me and tell me she follows it.

 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

1 hour ago, Humpty said:

I like her character but she makes me nervous.  I also do not really believe she is a real Radiant at all, anyone who seriously suggest Genocide as a legitimate solution to a problem is no radiant in my opinion. .. she seems to be a mere  surge-binder. (SHOCK!! omg your so wrong!!!) not really.... Think about what the first Ideal means for a bit then come back to me and tell me she follows it.

 

I don’t like Jasnah, but ”Life Before Death” can mean a lot of things. For example, it can be picking the lives of many over the deaths of a few. This is why Malata who is a Diagramist, or Gavilar, who was one of the Sons of Honor, also can be KR, and why people believe that the likes of Mr T or Amaram can (could, in Amarams case) become KR.

[rkae610]

On 12/14/2017 at 8:14 AM, Calyx said:

I don't think not wanting to marry Amaram points in that direction. Guy seemingly was always a douche.

I also love Jasnah! She is a fantastic character, and I feel like most of Shallan's problems could be solved by confiding in her. Jasnah is also clearly the strongest radiant (possibly except for Dalinar) at the moment, and there are indications that she even has her armor.

Oh, wow. I just realized that she always knew far more about who Amaram really was than Dalinar did. Jasnah for the win!

[StrikerEZ he/him]

4 minutes ago, rkae610 said:

Oh, wow. I just realized that she always knew far more about who Amaram really was than Dalinar did. Jasnah for the win!

She probably had ideas of how bad Amaram was, but I think she just really didn't like him. Probably because he was a jerk and a slontze and a douchebag. 

Also, on topic, I think Jasnah will be an interesting character, though I don't really like her yet. 

[Vissy]

Amaram treated Jasnah like a piece of meat, and he refused to take the hint offered to him on a silver platter that she just wasn't interested. Guy was a total loser. 

[Razrback16]

I don't like or dislike Jasnah (not enough information yet for me) - I'm very interested in her though. Very curious to find out her backstory and find out what her sexual orientation is. I am looking forward to more interaction between her and Kaladin in future books.

[goody153]

Admittedly i didn't really find her that interesting at the earlier parts of Stormlight Archives. I thought she was just there for Shallan then Oathbringer happened and well she is intriguing now at least.

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

Jasnah in my viewpoint is an Alpha female . She is powerful and intelligent and analytical . She has demonstrated loyalty to her family and the ability to lead. I think she should of been heir instead of Ehlokar who was childish and a brat. When he threatened to execute Kaladin and refused to help Adolin he was dismissed as deserving any respect in my book. As practical as Gavilar was I don’t know why he didn’t appoint her heir as his oldest instead of Ehlokar Who didn’t adopt any of his fathers personality in my book .

[goody153]

Tbf Elhokar isn't as bad as you would think after the first book. He's just Elhokar, a average but well-intentioned king. His Heart is in the right place and he so much pressure around him (his fathers legacy , actual ridiculously awesome people around him like Dalinar and Kaladin etc). He's just not a great choice for a king in a apocalypse. 

And he even gets better at Oathbringer with him admitting his faults and trying to be better. How many prideful or people in high position do you know who would admit they're wrong and actually tries to learn from their mistakes. That is what makes Elhokar fine. 

Besides the king could've been Sadeas lol

Jasnah is really close to a Mary Sue character so i really hope Sanderson has some means to balance her in the upccoming books.

[Draigon]

@goody153 The term "Mary Sue" has such a wide variation of meaning that it's nearly useless in describing a character. The original use was to describe an author inserting themselves into a fanfic story in an idealized form. It has since been expanded to include "protagonist I don't like", poorly written character, cliched character, idealized character, power fantasy and a bunch of other possible interpretations. While there is some overlap between some of these descriptions, they're not all the same thing. It'd be more useful if you could express the problems you find in Jasnah as a character in more specific terms.

Is she a power fantasy? Well she's certainly powerful, but she was taken out of the main action for nearly all of Words of Radiance. Also the most powerful we've seen her was at a point where all the Radiants were walking around as power fantasies due to readily available stormlight for all.

Is she idealized? Shallan looks up to her, but is chafing at Jasnah's expectations of her. Navani loves her but is frustrated and at a loss for how to deal with her at times. Jasnah herself points out flaws in her personality and makes no claim to be perfect.

Is she cliched? I think this is more of an opinion question. Depending on how widely or narrowly you define a character you can reduce them to a cliche or grow them to encompass multiple cliches or even flip the cliches on their heads and still be considered a cliched character.

Is she poorly written? I don't consider myself an expert in analyzing writing, so the best I can do is say that I find Jasnah to be an interesting character that I want to know more about. She's not been the focus of the story yet and as such we only have limited exposure to who she is. What we've seen though has been enough to draw me in looking for more, and only time will tell whether Brandon delivers on this. 

Is Jasnah a "protagonist I don't like"? For some people I'm sure she is. I like her and so this definition doesn't work for me. As we try to figure who these characters are we're going to have a like/don't like reaction. It's completely normal that not everyone will fall on the same side of this equation.

All that to say, using the term "Mary Sue" doesn't actually tell us what you think about Jasnah. The easiest default is to assume you don't like her character, but I'd rather know what do you actually mean you say "Mary Sue"?

[Calderis he/him]

@Draigon thank you.

I think @Greywatch would thoroughly appreciate your post as I've heard her thought on the term "Mary Sue." 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I don´t think Jasnah is a Mary Sue. But what I think @goody153 means (and I´m guessing here), is that Jasnah appears to have a lot of strenghts, and not that many weaknesses, at least not weaknesses that affects her or the story in huge ways (yet). She is incredibly powerful, and knows how to use her powers better than most other Radiants we have (Szeth is probably more skilled than her because of Honorblade-training, and Kaladin might be on her level as well). She is incredibly intelligent, and seems to be the person a lot of people turn to for advice all the time. She is great at debating, great at commanding, and is now given the position of queen because Adolin decided he didn´t want the throne. She can go about lecturing or insulting most people, and gets away with it. She is most often praised by the other main characters (except for Shallan and Kaladin) for being amazing. Yes, she does have a weakness in that she is pretty cold, and not great at interacting with people, but we never see those weaknesses impact her in any major way. I am frustrated by this sometimes, and I think it is why some people might want to call her a Mary Sue, even if she isn´t one.

[goody153]

@Draigon I can't think of a word that encompasses more similar what i think about Jasnah other than "Mary Sue" currently so yea i'm using that word as of now for convenience of the idea that i'd like to convey. 

Anyways like @Toaster Retribution says it's not like i think Jasnah is really the "Mary Sue" or the "awesome idealized self-insert character" but her lack of glaring flaws that convincingly affect her or that she is simply too good at things that truly matter when you would assume she should not be that good at that aspect.

One issue of her overall Mary Sue quality that i could specifically cite is during the battle at Thaylen City where while her ownage through soulcasting was absolutely totally reasonable since she is basically the longest Radiant of Team Dalinar(which i also suspect that she is the Radiant who already earned Shardplate), she's a practiced soulcaster, Dalinar boosting everybody through Honor's Perpedicularity and that elsecallers being the best interms of soulcasting(correct me if i'm wrong with this one since i remember this being stated but not sure if it was from ).

So the problem with that one scene where she sweeps a clump of Odium corrupted Sadeas troops with one hand using a Shardblade in a single fluid motion. Now that itself doesn't sound unreasonable if that was Adolin, Szeth, Dalinar or the other good/trained swordform shardblade wielders. The problem was that it was Jasnah who did it somebody who doesn't have the proper shardblade training(nobody knows she has a shardblade or was she willing to reveal to somebody who trains her), the very showcase of natural aptitude for physical combat(she is not Kaladin or Szeth) and the extreme lack of experience of physical confrontations which does really affects your actual fights through(mindset, judgment of distance in combat, range of weapons, reaction time etc that there could be an entire different post about this)

She literally did something that only a shardblade wielder who has experienced dueling/battle alot would do, somebody who's has the mindset of somebody already used to physical confrontation(this matters BIGTIME there's a distinct confidence and mindset for those who are already attuned to facing physical confrontations and those who don't which separates Shallan/Navani from Adolin/Dalinar/Kaladin) which doesn't make sense with her character and most importantly she did it against soldiers trained their entire lives without getting a single spear wound in response without being Kaladin/Szeth levels of training/confidence/proficiency.

Stormlight doesn't grant you competence or skills so stormlight can never be a reason for it.

That was the clearest very uncharacteristically mary sue action she has done that made me raise my eyebrows the first time i've read it even when all i felt about reading that parts of Oathbringer was just absolute hype. 

Don't get me wrong but i don't think of her as the "perfect" or a "bad" character it's more like abit "unbalanced" would be more appropriate as to how competent she is from her lack of convincing flaws. 

Sanderson has created some really incredibly competent characters that well really awesome as well. Those characters are Kelsier, Dalinar and Kaladin. Infact they are actually extreme levels of competent at what they do or competent at many aspects but they have very convincing flaws and clear failures that makes them much more feasible as characters. Simply because they're quite balanced as character they're showcased as somebody complex rather than a "Mary Sue".

Jasnah is basically Elend/Shallan unflawed as of the moment but we may not have to worry about that since her flashback book is not yet there and Stormlight has 7 more books to showcase her. I have confidence about Sanderson regarding this matter.

I mean if he could turn Lord Ruler into an incredibly complex character in posthumous fashion when he first portrayed him as the basic Lord Tyrant we are all familiar with or if he could turn Taln from "just interesting" into "WHAT AN AMAZING PERSON" in like a couple of lines. Jasnah should be in the good hands.

TLDR: Jasnah needs more relevant faults that convincingly affects her and showcase the aspects she hasn't been as not good at to become a awesomely competent and complex character like Kaladin/Dalinar/Kelsier and not closer to Mary Sue characters like Kirito(from a popular anime SAO or just any basic Mary Sue characters that are plentiful from that form of media).

Edited July 20, 2018 by goody153

[Draigon]

@goody153 Thanks, this does a much better job of explaining what you felt was a bit off with Jasnah, and I agree that we haven't seen anything to explain her level of martial prowess. The closest hint we have of that is her showdown with the muggers in Kharbranth and only in that she was completely calm and controlled in a combat situation. For now our imaginations can fill in the gaps, but I agree with you in expecting Sanderson to address this at some point as we get know more about Jasnah.

[Vissy]

8 hours ago, goody153 said:

@Draigon I can't think of a word that encompasses more similar what i think about Jasnah other than "Mary Sue" currently so yea i'm using that word as of now for convenience of the idea that i'd like to convey. 

Anyways like @Toaster Retribution says it's not like i think Jasnah is really the "Mary Sue" or the "awesome idealized self-insert character" but her lack of glaring flaws that convincingly affect her or that she is simply too good at things that truly matter when you would assume she should not be that good at that aspect.

One issue of her overall Mary Sue quality that i could specifically cite is during the battle at Thaylen City where while her ownage through soulcasting was absolutely totally reasonable since she is basically the longest Radiant of Team Dalinar(which i also suspect that she is the Radiant who already earned Shardplate), she's a practiced soulcaster, Dalinar boosting everybody through Honor's Perpedicularity and that elsecallers being the best interms of soulcasting(correct me if i'm wrong with this one since i remember this being stated but not sure if it was from ).

So the problem with that one scene where she sweeps a clump of Odium corrupted Sadeas troops with one hand using a Shardblade in a single fluid motion. Now that itself doesn't sound unreasonable if that was Adolin, Szeth, Dalinar or the other good/trained swordform shardblade wielders. The problem was that it was Jasnah who did it somebody who doesn't have the proper shardblade training(nobody knows she has a shardblade or was she willing to reveal to somebody who trains her), the very showcase of natural aptitude for physical combat(she is not Kaladin or Szeth) and the extreme lack of experience of physical confrontations which does really affects your actual fights through(mindset, judgment of distance in combat, range of weapons, reaction time etc that there could be an entire different about this)

She literally did something that only a shardblade wielder who has experienced dueling/battle alot would do, somebody who's has the mindset of somebody already used to physical confrontation(this matters BIGTIME there's a distinct confidence and mindset for those who are already attuned to facing physical confrontations and those who don't which separates Shallan/Navani from Adolin/Dalinar/Kaladin) which doesn't make sense with her character and most importantly she did it against soldiers trained their entire lives without getting a single spear wound in response without being Kaladin/Szeth levels of training/confidence/proficiency.

Stormlight doesn't grant you competence or skills so stormlight can never be a reason for it.

That was the clearest very uncharacteristically mary sue action she has done that made me raise my eyebrows the first time i've read it even when all i felt about reading that parts of Oathbringer was just absolute hype. 

Don't get me wrong but i don't think of her as the "perfect" or a "bad" character it's more like abit "unbalanced" would be more appropriate as to how competent she is from her lack of convincing flaws. 

Sanderson has created some really incredibly competent characters that well really awesome as well. Those characters are Kelsier, Dalinar and Kaladin. Infact they are actually extreme levels of competent at what they do or competent at many aspects but they have very convincing flaws and clear failures that makes them much more feasible as characters. Simply because they're quite balanced as character they're showcased as somebody complex rather than a "Mary Sue".

Jasnah is basically Elend/Shallan unflawed as of the moment but we may not have to worry about that since her flashback book is not yet there and Stormlight has 7 more books to showcase her. I have confidence about Sanderson regarding this matter.

I mean if he could turn Lord Ruler into an incredibly complex character in posthumous fashion when he first portrayed him as the basic Lord Tyrant we are all familiar with or if he could turn Taln from "just interesting" into "WHAT AN AMAZING PERSON" in like a couple of lines. Jasnah should be in the good hands.

TLDR: Jasnah needs more relevant faults that convincingly affects her and showcase the aspects she hasn't been as not good at to become a awesomely competent and complex character like Kaladin/Dalinar/Kelsier and not closer to Mary Sue characters like Kirito(from a popular anime SAO or just any basic Mary Sue characters that are plentiful from that form of media).

I've had the same thoughts about Jasnah but you put them more competently than I could manage. Yes this is exactly what I think is the problem with Jasnah's characterization in Stormlight. This is a bit of a recurring theme with Sanderson characters to be fair; a lot of his characters showcase natural aptitude for combat or for any task that the plot demands really, when the plot demands it of them. I think this may just be a corollary effect of Sanderson's difficulties with portraying characters as people instead of as plot vessels. Adolin occasionally suffers from this same effect at times, too, except with him it manifests as not so much natural aptitude but as a lack of weaknesses where he has been stated to have some. 

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

On 7/15/2018 at 10:36 PM, rkae610 said:

Oh, wow. I just realized that she always knew far more about who Amaram really was than Dalinar did. Jasnah for the win!

Amaram in my book. Was not that bad. He was the epitome of an Alethi commander. They are all shrewd , political and ambitious . What Sadeas did to Dalinar was considerd acceptable way to deal with a rival by Alethi standards. One thing I liked about Amaram was he told Dalinar the truth . Dalinar was a hypocrit. Don’t get me wrong I love Dalinar, it’s just due to his curse/boon situation he forgot how many hundreds he slaughtered to get his shards . What Amaranm did was no different than what many lighteyes have done to gain shards. And finally let’s not forget Anaram and Gavilar ( Jasnah father) were thick as thieves . They were both Sons of honor. And Gavilar knew all about Amaram and still considered him a match for his daughter. Had Dalinar not embarrassed and punished Amaram for his actions with Kaladin I doubt Amaram would have joined Odium. He expected Dalinar to take his side . He said honestly that he modled his career after Dalinar actions. Some might say he was oh so wrong. Look at what Dalinar did on the rift . He shot down people waving a white flag . Who were trying to tell him his wife was in the building he was burning down . So don’t judge him until you consider that Dalinar was his idol and he has seen Dalinar do worse!

[Vissy]

Yeah that's a good point. In the end, though, Amaram didn't really understand Dalinar. He modeled himself after a fictitious man.

[goody153]

Yeah i kinda agree. Well we still don't know enough about Amaram apart from his "the ends justify the means" method with intentions he believes as right and for the benefit of Alekthar if not Roshar. 

I see him as another Kelsier(not the same personality) but if the circumstances and allegiances were different he could've simply been another redemption character of the right side(like Elhokar or Dalinar) with the "you can be a better person if chose to now".

I believe Jasnah seems to be the link with him that will reveal more about whether he is truly just misguided person or a pig hypocrite who's just really pretending to be a righteous person.

[Ashspren]

Jasnah is my personal goddess.

Just had to get that out of the way.

Anyway... to all the people who talk about Jasnah’s impossible prowess, think back to a conversation she had with Shallan in the beginning of WoR. Power is just an illusion. I think that sometimes, we let her illusion of power get to us, too, rather than just characters in-world. She isn’t all that powerful, she just acts like it. It’s actually something I admire about her— she is able to shoulder her problems and comes off as smart, strong and capable, even if she’s dying inside. After all, she’s a Knight Radiant. She’s broken in some way, and therefore far from perfect.