Seeker861 Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 After reading Oathbringer I began to think that each Order of Radiants acquire their Squires through different methods. Windrunner Squires clearly need to feel a strong bond with their Knight. Skybreakers appear to be able to "deputize" individuals to make them a Squire, like Ki did with Szeth. And it seems like Shallan only gets them after she reveals the secret of her being Veil, so maybe Ligthweavers need to share secrets or just be honest with their potential Squires. Is there anything here or am I overthinking this? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemetha he/him Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 I think you're overthinking it. I think it's more simple than that. A person has to be in the zone of influence of the knight, share the same basic ideals of the knight, perceive the knight as a leader or mentor, and the knight be sufficiently progressed in their oaths. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ytsken Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 50 minutes ago, Seeker861 said: Windrunner Squires clearly need to feel a strong bond with their Knight. I'm not so sure this one is true. A number of Kaladin's new squires are people whom he didn't know very well (Lyn) or even like (Colot). So while it is possible that they might have admired Kaladin from afar, it's unlikely they felt a strong bond with him. However, I'll grant that he is an inspiring guy and that might he have drawn potential squires who were inspired by him. In the same way, Shallan may well have inspired Vatah and Elhokar... both were men who felt like they were living a lie... and she showed them that doesn't mean you can't be a hero. So ultimately, I agree with Aemetha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comby23 he/him Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 Whilst I agree with Aemetha that being in the promximity/zone is important, I suspect that it also has something to do with the squire also needs to believe in the Radiant's Ideals. For example with Bridge Four, they each strongly believe in the protective ideals of the Windrunners during their time as Khloin bodyguards. As Ytsken says, Vathah is like Shallan in that he perhaps felt he was living a lie. I could be totally wrong here, but something about that feels right to me... though I'm not sure exactly how that works perfectly for other orders right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemetha he/him Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Comby23 said: I suspect that it also has something to do with the squire also needs to believe in the Radiant's Ideals. Yes, that's what I meant by this: 17 minutes ago, aemetha said: share the same basic ideals of the knight 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TequilaJack Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 Proximity Belief in Ideals Trust of the Radiant All 3 are mandatory imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comby23 he/him Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 Ahhhh sorry! Need to read things more clearly. Not awake enough for this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn he/him Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 I feel its actually kind of easy to be a squire because all the scout ended being squires without being from bridge 4 previously. I saw it as if you are somewhat in the right direction and you are close to a KR, you end up as a squire. That can also be true to windrunners only because they have the + squires abilty. The process itself is a lot faster than attracting a spren as Vatah was pretty quickly a squire himself. Also, is there a number of ideals required to make squires? Because the scouts were squires just after bridge 4, and Kals + bridge 4 bond is way deeper. 2 hours ago, TequilaJack said: Proximity Belief in Ideals Trust of the Radiant All 3 are mandatory imo. Not sure about the trust of the radiant part. Kaladin doesn't go around trusting everyone and we don't know about Teft and bridge 13 either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urtan Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Maybe it is just the decision of the Knight. But.... We know some orders have more (or stronger) squires than others. I suspect Connection is going to come in play. We know that at least some surges use Connection in their inner workings. Shallan connects with people in her paintings. Dallinar uses Connection to speak foreign languages. Squires are Connected to their Knights. Their souls touching in spiritual realm giving them access to their surges. Maybe Windrunners have access to more surges utilising Connection. We know adhesion uses it. What if gravitation uses it too (making people gravitate to you)? We saw squires of 2 different orders so far. Skybreakers and Windrunners. Skybreaker squires are said to "leak" too much stormlight, which doesn't seem to be a problem with Windrunner squires. What if division doesn't use Connection? Maybe it is purely physical realm surge (breaking molecular bonds) making the squires intrinsically less Connected to their Knight. That means they have to want to be a squire and uphold the ideals of the Knight, the Knight must want THEM as a squire and the strength of the Connection dictates the capacity of the squire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 I do think that the method of gathering squires is different between the Orders. As OP pointed out, Skybreakers, for example, has a very formal way of doing things. Windrunners, meanwhile, seems to be more ”oh, I share the ideals of the KR and I’m hanging out with him, and now I can FLY!” So I think the process depends on your Order. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchcry he/him Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Urtan said: Maybe it is just the decision of the Knight. But.... We know some orders have more (or stronger) squires than others. I suspect Connection is going to come in play. We know that at least some surges use Connection in their inner workings. Shallan connects with people in her paintings. Dallinar uses Connection to speak foreign languages. Squires are Connected to their Knights. Their souls touching in spiritual realm giving them access to their surges. Maybe Windrunners have access to more surges utilising Connection. We know adhesion uses it. What if gravitation uses it too (making people gravitate to you)? We saw squires of 2 different orders so far. Skybreakers and Windrunners. Skybreaker squires are said to "leak" too much stormlight, which doesn't seem to be a problem with Windrunner squires. What if division doesn't use Connection? Maybe it is purely physical realm surge (breaking molecular bonds) making the squires intrinsically less Connected to their Knight. That means they have to want to be a squire and uphold the ideals of the Knight, the Knight must want THEM as a squire and the strength of the Connection dictates the capacity of the squire. We saw a Lightweaver squire, too (Vatha). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 On 12/4/2017 at 2:40 PM, Seeker861 said: Is there anything here or am I overthinking this? I personally have always assumed the same although we could both be wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless he/him Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Agreed, after reading that strength of squires is the Windrunners' Resonance, I always thought of it as Spiritual Adhesion + Gravitation. I think aemetha & tequila jack's summation/simplification works, substituting the "trust of the Radiant" to "trust in the Radiant" for the latter's summation but Seeker861 does have a point, the method of acquisition might vary between the Orders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Hel Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Didn't those not of Bridge 4 have trouble becoming squires until they actually joined Bridge 4? Maybe its a sense that the Radiant has claimed them as a squire and they've accepted it? So, Vatha didn't until Shallan decided to trust her group and treat them like trusted underlings, and Kaladin even if he's willing to train others only really sees Bridge 4 as his. It doesn't matter how long you're in Bridge 4 or if he even completely knows you, being in Bridge 4 is a major distinction to Kaladin. Skybreakers being the longest surviving group and most legalistic just happen to still know the rules to it and are able to do it the simplest way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammac Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Darth_Hel said: Didn't those not of Bridge 4 have trouble becoming squires until they actually joined Bridge 4? Maybe its a sense that the Radiant has claimed them as a squire and they've accepted it? So, Vatha didn't until Shallan decided to trust her group and treat them like trusted underlings, and Kaladin even if he's willing to train others only really sees Bridge 4 as his. It doesn't matter how long you're in Bridge 4 or if he even completely knows you, being in Bridge 4 is a major distinction to Kaladin. Skybreakers being the longest surviving group and most legalistic just happen to still know the rules to it and are able to do it the simplest way. I agree and there must be a mechanism for the Radiant to end it also. If a windrunner squire has access to surges without oaths then they could use them how they pleased. I'm going to say mutual trust and like mindedness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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