[OB] Corrupt Spren Bonds

[Blacksmithki]

In oathbringer we see Renarin has bonded a spren corrupted by an unmade's touch, and it allows him to see the future. This made me wonder if other orders would be capable of bonding a corrupted spren and what unique abilities might come out of these bonds? Or is Renarin a unique case that can not be replicated? Assuming that he is not a unique case this could be very interesting and possibly form new orders of radiants. From what we know the base abilities of Renarin are not removed by this bond and he seems to be in full control other then his episodes.

We already know that truthwatchers bonding a corrupt mistspren have occasions where they can see the future, and this future would appear to very often be correct, but not always.

If we look at corrupted lesser spren that we know or suspect are related to radiant spren and compare the how the distortions work to effects on those spren, and the CR changes to those spren from the few corrupted spren we saw in shadesmar we may be capable of guessing the effects these corruptions have on the nature and effects of the higher spren equivalents of those spren.

I don't have the book on hand, but i will attempt to add what information i can from it regarding the corrupted spren as soon as possible.

What do you guys think? is it possible to have new distinct orders with modified spren? Could this be a boost to the strength of radiants if/when the unmade (i can't remember her name) defects from odium's side like is implied? or is Renarin a one off case that we will never see again? 

I hope i did the oathbringer spoilers tag correctly, please tell me if i didn't.

[The Sovereign]

On 11/17/2017 at 0:15 PM, Blacksmithki said:

In oathbringer we see Renarin has bonded a spren corrupted by an unmade's touch, and it allows him to see the future. This made me wonder if other orders would be capable of bonding a corrupted spren and what unique abilities might come out of these bonds? Or is Renarin a unique case that can not be replicated? Assuming that he is not a unique case this could be very interesting and possibly form new orders of radiants. From what we know the base abilities of Renarin are not removed by this bond and he seems to be in full control other then his episodes.

We already know that truthwatchers bonding a corrupt mistspren have occasions where they can see the future, and this future would appear to very often be correct, but not always.

If we look at corrupted lesser spren that we know or suspect are related to radiant spren and compare the how the distortions work to effects on those spren, and the CR changes to those spren from the few corrupted spren we saw in shadesmar we may be capable of guessing the effects these corruptions have on the nature and effects of the higher spren equivalents of those spren.

I don't have the book on hand, but i will attempt to add what information i can from it regarding the corrupted spren as soon as possible.

What do you guys think? is it possible to have new distinct orders with modified spren? Could this be a boost to the strength of radiants if/when the unmade (i can't remember her name) defects from odium's side like is implied? or is Renarin a one off case that we will never see again? 

I hope i did the oathbringer spoilers tag correctly, please tell me if i didn't.

A couple of the gem epigraphs lead me to believe that some of the Truthwatcher Spren (beyond Glys) are corrupted by Sja-Anat and have been for a long time.
 

Quote

"I worry about my fellow Truthwatchers."

"Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this."

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by The Sovereign
Grammar is important.

[The Invested Beard]

Yeah I have a feeling there are a large contingent of Truthwatcher spren who have been corrupted since the Recreance. Not all though because if you remember, Jasnah figures out Glys is not right by a report from another current Truthwatcher spren description that doesn't match.

[SpeakoftheDeval]

Wasn't there an epigraph in the mythica where Hessi states that sja anat could only corrupt lesser spren, not radiant spren. When I took this into account I figured that mistspren are the lesser spren associated with truthwatchers and corrupting one of those made it sentient and allowed it to form a bond that mimics the real truthwatchers

[The Sovereign]

38 minutes ago, MadhavDeval said:

Wasn't there an epigraph in the mythica where Hessi states that sja anat could only corrupt lesser spren, not radiant spren. When I took this into account I figured that mistspren are the lesser spren associated with truthwatchers and corrupting one of those made it sentient and allowed it to form a bond that mimics the real truthwatchers

This is possible, however, I suspect that Glys is in fact a corrupted Truthwatcher Spren rather than a corrupted lesser Spren. We know from Shallan's observations that the corruption changes the appearance of the Spren. Also the corrupted emotion Spren we see give no indication that they are sentient. By Hessi's own admission, she is not a completely reliable source. 

Quote

"I have done my best to separate fact from fiction, but the two blend like mixing paint when the Voidbringers are involved. Each of the Unmade has a dozen names, and the powers ascribed to them range from the fanciful to the terrifying."

It is possible that she is simply wrong about Sja-Anat only being able to corrupt lesser Spren. Alternately, this could have changed over time. I suspect that later, as Sja-Anat's apparent desire to defect indicates that something about her has changed (perhaps her powers and/or sentience have increased).

Edited November 20, 2017 by The Sovereign

[bo.montier]

1 hour ago, The Invested Beard said:

Yeah I have a feeling there are a large contingent of Truthwatcher spren who have been corrupted since the Recreance. Not all though because if you remember, Jasnah figures out Glys is not right by a report from another current Truthwatcher spren description that doesn't match.

I read that passage as Jasnah's source having only read about it, not having actually seen one...

[The Invested Beard]

55 minutes ago, bo.montier said:

I read that passage as Jasnah's source having only read about it, not having actually seen one...

You may be right. I'll have to go back and check.

[rjl]

Interesting point on this is Glys' reaction to discovering that Renarin has a corrupted spren - he seems to imply that he knows that this has not happened before. (sorry I can't look up the exact quote as only have the audio book at the moment)

Yet then we have this quote "Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this."

[PatronOfRot]

I wonder if he'll have trouble manifesting shard plate. Will he need corrupted lesser spren?

[Willow]

2 hours ago, The Sovereign said:

It is possible that she is simply wrong about Sja-Anat only being able to corrupt lesser Spren. Alternately, this could have changed over time. I suspect that later, as Sja-Anat's apparent desire to defect indicates that something about her has changed (perhaps her powers and/or sentience have increased).

I think you're right about Glys actually being a Truthwatcher spren, but it means 'the official knowledge' what the Unmade can do is wrong - or simply outdated. Sja-anat actually provides us with some interesting information about her talents:

"Odium suspects that you survived. He thinks something strange happened to the Oathgate because of our influence - we've never managed to Enlighten such powerful spen before. It's believable that something odd might happen."

Interestingly, she calls it 'Enlightening' instead of corrupting, and she also mentions this is the first time they've managed to influence a spren this powerful. Depending on whether Oathgate spren are simply powerful 'lesser spren' or actual 'true spren', this might mean that something new and interesting has happened to Glys to corrupt him. If the Oathgate spren are powerful lesser spren, it means Sja-anat couldn't have corrupted Glys the normal way, as she says she's never done that before, which makes me very curious to see what actually happened.

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Willow

[The Sovereign]

5 minutes ago, Willow said:

I think you're right about Glys actually being a Truthwatcher spren, but it means 'the official knowledge' what the Unmade can do is wrong - or simply outdated. Sja-anat actually provides us with some intersting information about her talents:

"Odium suspects that you survived. He thinks something strange happened to the Oathgate because of our influence - we've never managed to Enlighten such powerful spen before. It's believable that something odd might happen."

Interestingly, she calls it 'Enlightening' instead of corrupting, and she also mentions this is the first time they've managed to influence a spren this powerful. Depending on whether Oathgate spren are simply powerful 'lesser spren' or actual 'true spren', this might mean that something new and interesting has happened to Glys to corrupt him. If the Oathgate spren are powerful lesser spren, it means Sja-anat couldn't have corrupted Glys the normal way, as she says she's never done that before, which makes me very curious to see what actually happened.

 

Thank you, I had actually intended to reference this quote but couldn't it and didn't want to misquote it.

[FollowYourMuse she/her]

I do not have books handy, but I think I remember Sja-anat tells Shallan to ask her son when she is trying to convince her she isn't the enemy. Is she talking about Glys, and is it all she corrupts are her children or is Glys her son like Syl is a daughter of the stormfather?

Added Quote

Quote

We were made, then unmade, she agreed. But no, not an enemy! The figure turned humanlike again, though the eyes remained glowing white. It pressed its hands against the glass. Ask my son. Please.

“You’re of him. Odium.”

The figure glanced to the sides, as if frightened. No. I am of me. Now, only of me.

OB Ch 84 Page 817 Kindle

. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by FollowYourMuse
Found quote

[Egomere]

15 minutes ago, FollowYourMuse said:

I do not have books handy, but I think I remember sja_anat tells Shallan to ask her son when she is trying to convince her she isn't the enemy. Is she talking about Glys, and is it all she corrupts are her children or is Glys her son like sly is a daughter of the stormfather?

With the current availble info. I would guess she was talking about Glys; but it may have been Son not in the literal sense but in a metaphorical sense due to her having corrupted him. This I feel would fit with the fact although Renarin has a corrupted spren he isn't actively working for Odium - I feel due to seeing the visions of the 'future' is was because of despair that he didn't do anything and then due to Jasnah sparing him he realised he'd been 'taken' in by Odium - explaining his ambivalence and failure to warn people. So Sja-anat was telling Shallan to talk to Glys because although he is 'corrupted' he's not a voidspren dominated by Odium.

[Kasimir he/him]

8 hours ago, rjl said:

Interesting point on this is Glys' reaction to discovering that Renarin has a corrupted spren - he seems to imply that he knows that this has not happened before. (sorry I can't look up the exact quote as only have the audio book at the moment)

Yet then we have this quote "Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this."

But there are gaps in Glys's memory, aren't there? He can't remember how he's been corrupted, for instance. Perhaps he wouldn't be able to remember if there were others like him.