Michael Portz he/him Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Disclaimer: Beware! Authors imagination in rampage mode due to approaching WoR release! Roshars moons and the other planets in Greater Roshar do play a role in the Stormlight Archive (i.e., Odium is located on one of the planets: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Braize etc.). Will Rosharians actually travel to those places in future books? Iff so, will they do by passing through Shadesmar or by using other realmatic means or will they actually "fly" there via the Physical Realm? Iff so, can Shardplates be used as space-suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromptj he/him Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I think that the third Mistborn trilogy is supposed to be a sci fi/space opera, so I doubt that the Stormlight Archive would go the same way, unless they found some spaceship or if there was a crossover. I think that the travel will be done through Shadesmar unless anyone wants to start an "Urithiru is a spaceship" topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans he/him Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Brandon said that the others planets and moons are "relevant" in this serie. Now what that means are kind a mystery. Side note: Odium are based in another planet in the Gran Roshar Sytem Braise, and the Shardesmere kind allow inter planetary voyage so maybe we will have some action in anothers planets. Second side note:It is also theorized that the damnation and the tranquiline halls are other planets, and that humanity coming to Roshar was caused by Odium/Honor war =) Edited February 25, 2014 by Natans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Brandon said that teh other planets and moons are "relevant" in this serie. Now what that means are kind a mystery. Side note: Odium are based in another planet in the Gran Roshar Sytem Braise, and the Shardesmere kind allow inter planetary voyage so maybe we will have some action in anothe planets. Second side note:It is also theorized that the damnation and the tranquiline halls are other planets, and thar humanity coming to Roshar as caused by Odium/Honor war =) Thanks for the summary ;-) Despite the shadesmar option, how would a KR in an air proof shardplate full set propel himself to one of the moons? Being from a suitable order and with a sufficient store of fused gems, can he use lashings on the interplanetary dust to accelerate? *THINK* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count he/him Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 ok, just for funsies, I did some numbers on travelling by lashing to a moon of Roshar... brace yourself! Assumptions: 1/ Roshar Gravity = 7 m/s^2 (approx. 0.7 times earth gravity) 2/ Distance to Mooon of Roshar = 350,000 km (about the same distance as earth to our moon) 3/ Air Resistance has no appreciable effect on travel time (atmosphere will factor for <0.001% of the journey) 4/ It is possible to make a lashing to a moon of Roshar (seriously doubt this) 5/ You can use Shardplate as a space suit (a with the pressure surge may be able to do this). Actually the calculation is pretty simple since the assumptions above mean that you are basically just accelerating at 1g for the whole distance (no air resistance). By my calculations the trip would take about 2 hours to make. The main problem is that of your speed on arrival. Once you reach the moon you would be travelling at ~22,000 miles an hour. If the moon has an atmosphere, you will probably burn up in it. If not, then you will definitely be paste once you hit the ground. Given that we saw shardplate shattered by a some masonry lashed across a single room. I do not think that this will protect you very much. 2 hours too long for you? Well you could lash yourself 5 times to the moon, that cuts the travel time down to only 55 minutes. But then you would be travelling at ~50,000 miles an hour when you get there. I think Shadesmar would be safer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Szeth lashed that rock to a point in the sky, and you could just use Lashings to reduce your arrival speed as well, though that would lengthen the trip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Several hours is perfectly ok, especially if you don't want the sprens to get their little sneaky noses into it ... Moonlashing is not necessary in my opinion, there should be enough interplanetary dust, even in Greater Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Brandon said that the others planets and moons are "relevant" in this serie. Now what that means are kind a mystery. Side note: Odium are based in another planet in the Gran Roshar Sytem Braise, and the Shardesmere kind allow inter planetary voyage so maybe we will have some action in anothers planets. Second side note:It is also theorized that the damnation and the tranquiline halls are other planets, and that humanity coming to Roshar was caused by Odium/Honor war =) He also mentioned that the planets have something similar to souls of their own, so that might be what he was referring to. Those souls might have something to do with the individual Shards - that would make them all relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I thought that the giant glowing planet/black sun thing in Shadesmar WAS the planet Braise. Because presumably the other planets/moons do not have enough of a cognitive presence to show up in Shadesmar, whereas a planet with a shard on it would. Of course I guess it could also be the amalgamation of the Rosharan's collective idea of celestial bodies? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday he/him Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Why do I keep seeing references to galactic dust in relation with Lashing? It is possible to Lash without having a specific target in mind. Lash yourself as many times as you want to cover the distance. Use a basic Lashing in the opposite direction to arrest forward momentum. Use Szeth's fancy 9/10 of weightlessness in the original direction for a landing an Eagle would envy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Why do I keep seeing references to galactic dust in relation with Lashing? It is possible to Lash without having a specific target in mind. Lash yourself as many times as you want to cover the distance. Use a basic Lashing in the opposite direction to arrest forward momentum. Use Szeth's fancy 9/10 of weightlessness in the original direction for a landing an Eagle would envy. Oooookayyy ... you are shaking my understanding of lashings ... that is a good thing ... "firm" believes must be shaken from time to time :-D Soo ... gravity in the cosmere (?) –at least in Greater Roshar– is a spiritual bond between two things. For all practical purposes –at least my imagination does not go further than that– it behaves JUST like our gravity; i.e. basic rules apply, like 1. the gravitational pull decreases with distance and 2. the gravitational pull between lets say Roshar and all things of similar mass is the same IF LEFT ALONE (*). ad 1.: otherwise the whole structure of the planet system would have to be artificial, and not something, that happened because things were left alone ad 2.: otherwise it would not make sense, to say that the gravity of Roshar is roughly 0.7 of earths gravity (*) This was obviously put in due to the possibility of lashings. And now I am reaching the borders of my imagination. I wanted to put in a definition of lashings in my own words, but found that I don't have the time now and leave that for later. Comments of course welcome! EDT1: Attempt to clarify Edited February 26, 2014 by Atastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quazar87 Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 So you are saying that when szeth lashes to the sky, what he is really doing is lashing to space dust? Just without knowing the specifics? Sounds plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 So you are saying that when szeth lashes to the sky, what he is really doing is lashing to space dust? Just without knowing the specifics? Sounds plausible. Ahm in case you are referring to me ... where do you think I said this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I think that the third Mistborn trilogy is supposed to be a sci fi/space opera, so I doubt that the Stormlight Archive would go the same way, unless they found some spaceship or if there was a crossover. I think that the travel will be done through Shadesmar unless anyone wants to start an "Urithiru is a spaceship" topic. IIRC during the Waygate Writeathon someone asked if there would be a Stormlight/Mistborn crossover b/c that would be awesome, to which BS replied "You will be a very happy person". Can't find the exact quote now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknowingly he/him Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Guys I dont think you lash yourself to an object, I think you lash yourself in a direction. For example if you are standing out side a square building and you are 5 meters away from the corner and you then lash yoyrself in the direction of the wall you will still be 5 meters from the corner but that corner will now be a ledge. If you walk 5 meters forward you are now at the edge of the ledge. If you take one more step forward then you will fall, you will not be pulled toward the wall, you fall at the speed of gravity in the direction that you lashed yourself and you will keep on falling until your stormlight runs out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans he/him Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 IIRC during the Waygate Writeathon someone asked if there would be a Stormlight/Mistborn crossover b/c that would be awesome, to which BS replied "You will be a very happy person". Can't find the exact quote now though. Wow I never saw that one, good catch =) I think that Fabrial tech would be awesome in a sci-fi setting, they are now basically simple magitek, but give a few centuries and things could turn very impessive, like mass accelaration guns, FTL or Shadesmere "Slip space" drives, etc Some fix here and there and your could convert a Shardplate in a power suit and so on =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday he/him Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Ahm in case you are referring to me ... where do you think I said this? There was some confusion. You were talking about using galactic dust to accelerate. It's unnecessary. Lashing does not follow the same dynamics as Steelpush and Ironpull. When Steelpushing you are forcing your body to overcome its inertia and gravity's pull you. You're acceleration decreases the further away you are from your anchor. Lashing redirects gravity to the direction you choose. There is no anchoring point from which you are pushing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) There was some confusion. You were talking about using galactic dust to accelerate. It's unnecessary. Lashing does not follow the same dynamics as Steelpush and Ironpull. When Steelpushing you are forcing your body to overcome its inertia and gravity's pull you. You're acceleration decreases the further away you are from your anchor. Lashing redirects gravity to the direction you choose. There is no anchoring point from which you are pushing yourself. I really think, I have to break cosmere gravity into more tiny pieces, to make it fit into my cerebral structure ... What do you MEAN by "redirecting gravity"???? It sounds, as if you could take any acceleration vector or the corresponding vector of force, modify it arbitrary and re-apply it to the world. This sounds way too much like Harry Potter Magic, and I will not believe, that Brandon would use such a silly concept in any of his worlds. In OUR universe every single piece of mass creates gravity, ie. pulls on every other piece of mass in the universe. The "direction" is always to the center of the piece of mass in question (aka "Come to me, you sweet little piece of mass!"). Resulting acceleration of an object is always the sum of all "pulls". Obviously gravity is something different in Greater Roshar (or even in the Cosmere), or isn't it? It is claimed, that it is a (spiritual) bond between (two?) objects. I really think, we should view those bonds as vectors as well; just to make things sane. It has a direction, and any object can have arbitrary many bonds to other objects. If left alone, these gravity-bonds do behave just like our own good ol' gravity (aka the "depending on mass" and "diminishing with distance" stuff) Entrance "The Lashings"! Lashings reorganize those bond-vectors. Question: What does "reorganizing" mean? Suggestion: "To lash" means to multiply a constant scalar to one or several bond-vectors. The more the constant deviates from 1.0, the more stormlight you have to apply. Claim: And that is all the deviation from our standard-understanding of gravity that we need to explain lashings. Examples: Multiply the bond vector by 2, with which you pull on a piece of chocolate in front of you => Chocolate comes to you. Multiply all the bond vectors originating from a certain object by 3.5 => All things around the object start moving too it and –after reaching it– cling to it. Multiply the bond vector originating from Roshar and ending at yourself by something negative => You start moving to a certain point far above Roshars surface Multiply all bond vectors ending on Sadeas besides the one originating from this huge chasmfiend by 0.0 => One problem less Sorry for my much too unsorted rantings ... *SIGH* edt1: Typo Edited February 27, 2014 by Atastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havon Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 It might be that the Dread... Err, I mean Odium forced the Rosharans to travel through a tear in reality down a golden staircase to escape the tranquilline halls. Or... i might be getting this confused with Faust's Magician series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Or maybe, you know, a magic that lets you redirect gravity simply does it, the same way Steelpushes and Ironpulls don't actually use magnetism. There is a limit to how "hard" magic has to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) Or maybe, you know, a magic that lets you redirect gravity simply does it, the same way Steelpushes and Ironpulls don't actually use magnetism. There is a limit to how "hard" magic has to be. As I said, in my view (!) that is Harry Potter Magic level and not worthy of Brandon Sanderson. The logic behind it must be right. "Redirecting gravity" for sure is not, at least not with the cosmere-related explanations I found so far. Don't get me wrong, I can read and enjoy stories, where some kind of magic energy influences the real world, even if it comes out of nothing. Or if all magic is constantly hidden around the corner, like in LoTR. But if an author redefines a fundamental force like gravity, I expect him to have this thought through. Why should he otherwise even USE the term "gravity"? He suggests, that this has something to do with our own gravity. Out of interest: Does Brandon Sanderson use "magnetism" anywhere around Scadrial/Mistborn novels? I never noticed and it never played a role in my picturing of the stories. And finally: Peace!!!! I don't even know why this is so important for me ... should I start worrying?? edt: addendum Edited February 27, 2014 by Atastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 As I said, in my view (!) that is Harry Potter Magic level and not worthy of Brandon Sanderson. The logic behind it must be right. "Redirecting gravity" for sure is not, at least not with the cosmere-related explanations I found so far. Don't get me wrong, I can read and enjoy stories, where some kind of magic energy influences the real world, even if it comes out of nothing. Or if all magic is constantly hidden around the corner, like in LoTR. But if an author redefines a fundamental force like gravity, I expect him to have this thought through. Why should he otherwise even USE the term "gravity"? He suggests, that this has something to do with our own gravity. Out of interest: Does Brandon Sanderson use "magnetism" anywhere around Scadrial/Mistborn novels? I never noticed and it never played a role in my picturing of the stories. And finally: Peace!!!! I don't even know why this is so important for me ... should I start worrying?? edt: addendum But the explanation is probably more to do with force-rewriting Spiritual links using Stormlight as a semi-physical "scaffold" governed by the spren bond and guided by Intent, which collapses under the pressure of Roshar's own prevalent spiritual link over time, as well as evaporating naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday he/him Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Swimmingly has it right. BS does a good job of sticking to physics usually, but the simple facts are that he uses Spirit Web to explain away alot of the "Harry Potter magic" we see. I mean looking at Lashings and Syl WoR spoiler: Syl flat out says that Gravity isn't real. It more of an agreement between friends. This indicates that it is much more of a spiritual thing involving magic ideas (spren). It's Harry Potter magic. But there's an explanation behind it rather than "repairo ocullis. Look! magic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 In the end, this is fantasy as opposed to hard sci-fi. Though that may change by the 3rd Mistborn trilogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I bet we see some Shadesmar travel, but I'm not seeing windrunning as a method of travel to the moon.(Although possible it seems unlikely.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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