[OB] There's something royal 'bout them locks...

[CosmereQuestioner]

Yes, the evidence that Vivenna = Evi is stacking!

First the name has similar aspects, then there's the emphasis placed on her hair:

"But that hair. It made her stand out, like a candle’s glow in a dark room"

Plus the fact that Brandon told us to keep an eye out, we would see Vivenna in this book.

[SilverTiger]

Evi is of Iriali descent, all Iriali have bright gold-colored hair. Plus, Evi has a brother (Toh) and is described as vapid. I can't imagine Vivenna being vapid.

[Wreith]

So you think she found a Riran willing to lie about being her brother then?

Golden hair is a known Riran trait.

I really doubt Vivenna's appearance will be as central a figure as Evi is likely to be

[Calderis]

Evi is Riran. It's possible she has a touch of Iriali blood that would give her hair a gold sheen on top of  being blond. 

In a culture full of starkly black haired Alethi, who dye their hair to hide foreign blood, someone walking around with such a drastically different hair color is notable in itself. 

Add in that Evi is dead... And I think that's a big nope.

[CosmereQuestioner]

Oh it's far from a lock, but then again i dont see vivenna showing up in oathbringer with a sign around her neck saying "I'm Vivenna guys! See all the 100% indisputable evidence?"

If it WAS Vivenna she would probably pick a race that matches a particular state of her hair.  If shes going with yellow, then riran/ iriali would work. 

Appears vapid...well she's not going to necessarily want to appear as a strong confidant woman at the moment.  Maybe she is appearing weak/dumb for strategic purposes.

Has a supposed brother;  Thats going to be needed in a male dominated society if she wants to get anything done easily.

Vivenna? Maybe, maybe not.

I'm certainly not going to rule it out.

 

[Shardbearer]

2 hours ago, CosmereQuestioner said:

Plus the fact that Brandon told us to keep an eye out, we would see Vivenna in this book.

Where does this come from? I haven't seen a quote like this anywhere.

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

Add in that Evi is dead... And I think that's a big nope.

Is that 100% confirmed? I mean it seems extremely likely given what we know, but it could have been a fakeout death... 

But no, I don't think Evi is Vivenna.

[StormingTexan]

This is why I love Brandon's books so much. We would literally turn a toenail clipping into a mysterious clue. 

[CosmereQuestioner]

You're right, he doesn't say it will be in Oathbringer, my mistake. A year ago he said that the answer of "what happened to Vivenna" - "would be answered soon".

 

[The Invested Beard]

[CaptainRyan]

57 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said:

If I had more upvotes to give then, by Aslan, I would give them.

[JoyBlu]

@CosmereQuestioner

Evi as Vivenna

the hair, the name (same letters in backwards order)  Vivenna 

I really like the evidence supporting your conclusions.

However — why in the world would she want to have children with Dalinar? If Evi really is Vivenna then that means Adolin & Renarin are Idris royalty. ( on Nalthis) And if I remember correctly the Idris people were the first rulers of Nalthis and hade some hereditary power connected to that. That would mean that Adolin and Renarin would have a part of the Nalthis power in their blood.  How Stormlight would effect this power would be interesting indeed. 

 

Part of Dalinar’s curse/boon could be to forget his wife because he loved her and found who she really was and it broke his heart that he couldn’t be a world hopper with her and perhaps she had to leave Roshar for an important reason so she “died”.  Maybe she just had to leave and left Vasher (zahel) to watch over the boys. 

 

So if  Evi is Vivenna then we will see more of her I’m sure — but it does seem like a stretch — but could very well be a real thing. 

Also wasn’t Vivenna really good at controlling her hair color? From what we know now — she could have stolen the shard plate and just claimed to be a princess. No one from her land actually followed her and could have vouched for her. Her brother Toh could have been a world hopper too. They believed that she was who she said she was because she had the plate. I’m also sure Vivenna was well trained in diplomacy/acting! I’ll be watching for more clues to this.

 

 

 

[Govir]

12 minutes ago, JoyBlu said:

Her brother Toh could have been a world hopper too.

Not sure exactly how to do spoilers, but this is for Warbreaker.

Spoiler

From what I remember of Warbreaker, it's even possible that Toh is Vasher. Being a Returned allows him to alter his appearance. In fact, the Returned are the source of the Royal locks (i.e. a Returned and a normal human had a child).

Granted, I don't think it's true. But if Evi is Vivenna, then maybe.

[Wreith]

1 minute ago, Govir said:

Not sure exactly how to do spoilers, but this is for Warbreaker.

  Hide contents

From what I remember of Warbreaker, it's even possible that Toh is Vasher. Being a Returned allows him to alter his appearance. In fact, the Returned are the source of the Royal locks (i.e. a Returned and a normal human had a child).

Granted, I don't think it's true. But if Evi is Vivenna, then maybe.

I feel like Dalinar would have noticed if his Brother in Law drastically changed appearance and became a swordmaster ardent.

[JoyBlu]

48 minutes ago, Wreith said:

51 minutes ago, Govir said:

 

I feel like Dalinar would have noticed if his Brother in Law drastically changed appearance and became a swordmaster ardent.

That’s just it . . . I agree with @Govir 

spoiler for War Breaker

Spoiler

As a returned, Vasher could easily change his appearance and Dalinar (and anyone else) could be reintroduced to the same people as a completely new person without being recognized. It’s Brillant really.  And what better role to look for Nightblood than a man who trains in swords. 

I’m still not convinced Vivenna is Evi but it could work

if it is her I’m super curious as to her intentions

 

ok — here is another tin foil thought 

if indeed Evi is Vivenna then maybe Dalinar’s boon/curse was to forget her when she wasn’t on Roshar. Maybe since he is remembering her now, she is back?!!!!!!

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by JoyBlu

[Starla]

Vivenna being his mother might explain Adolin's awesome hair.

[Yata]

If Vivenna is Evi and Dalinar was in someway responsable for her Death or her missing protection.

Do you really expect an intimate friend of her to stay calm and remains at his service. ? He is not really a patient guy.

Much more, all of this happened when Dalinar was quite a monster...I find It really unlikely.

Without considerate the Realmatic ramifications to have Adolin and Renarin as hybrids

[StormingTexan]

 

[jamskinner]

Also shouldn't adolin and renarin be able to change their hair to match emotions if this was true or am I remembering wrong 

[Yata]

1 hour ago, jamskinner said:

Also shouldn't adolin and renarin be able to change their hair to match emotions if this was true or am I remembering wrong 

Perception is a great deal here, in theory they will be unable to do unless someone convinces them they could do it

[BlackYeti]

3 hours ago, jamskinner said:

Also shouldn't adolin and renarin be able to change their hair to match emotions if this was true or am I remembering wrong 

While @Yata is correct in his point about perception, it is irrelevant in this case since Vivenna's children would not have inherited the Royal Locks.

Quote

“It’s true,” Vivenna said. “Being royal is about more than just blood. It’s about lineage and the holy calling of Austre. My children will not have the Royal Locks unless I become queen of Idris. Only potential heirs have the ability to change their hair color.”

Warbreaker - Chapter 22

Brandon has confirmed that this is correct in the chapter's annotation:

Quote

Only Potential Heirs of Idris Have Royal Locks

This is true. It’s not a matter of genetics, but lineage. That’s a subtle distinction. Only the children of the person who ends up inheriting will have the Royal Locks. (Though there are a couple of notable exceptions to this, they won’t show up in this book, as it will take another novel to explain why and how the Royal Locks really work. If I ever write a sequel, that should be in it.)

Edit: before anyone suggests that Adolin and Renarin could be the exceptions that Brandon mentions, keep in mind that the sequel to Warbreaker is Nightblood, which, being set before Stormlight, wouldn't work with the timeline.

Edited October 13, 2017 by BlackYeti

[Yata]

35 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

While @Yata is correct in his point about perception, it is irrelevant in this case since Vivenna's children would not have inherited the Royal Locks.

Brandon has confirmed that this is correct in the chapter's annotation:

Edit: before anyone suggests that Adolin and Renarin could be the exceptions that Brandon mentions, keep in mind that the sequel to Warbreaker is Nightblood, which, being set before Stormlight, wouldn't work with the timeline.

I think this is the exact "perception issue". The Royals not in the right lineage believe they can't have the Locks and this stop them for having the Royal locks

[CosmereQuestioner]

Do we have confirmation that the sequel "Nightblood" will be set before stormlight? 

I had imagined there were things we needed to see in stormlight before he would write it. (Pure conjecture on my part)

[BlackYeti]

3 minutes ago, CosmereQuestioner said:

Do we have confirmation that the sequel "Nightblood" will be set before stormlight? 

We do:

Quote

QUESTION

If you write Nightblood, the Warbreaker sequel, chronologically, will it come before or after Stormlight?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Before. More close to Warbreaker than to Stormlight.

And @Yata, that's absolutely not how I read that WoB, but I'll not force the issue. We can both agree after all that you would not expect Adolin or Renarin to display the Royal Locks. 

[Stark]

For me, I don't really buy that Evi is Vivenna, mostly because I would find it extremely disappointing that she was gone.  But also, Vivena's control of her hair colour was not fantastic the last we saw her, and she likely would have had a significant wealth of breath.  So Evi seems like a poor fit.

On of the things I have learnt about people going under assumed names is that they will take names from their comfort zone, from their country, fitting a pattern, and mostly because their ethnicity will not necessarily match a name to drastically different from their home.

Given that Brandon used a double consonant sound at the beginning of most non-returned names in Warbreaker (Vivenna, T'telir, Dedelin, Llarimar, D'denir) for both Hallandren and Idris, I will personally be on the lookout for some foreigner with an unplaceable accent, weird colour based idioms, a name starting with a double consonant rather than a palindromic structure, inconsistent hair, odd colours, and an inexplicable ability to annoy Zahel more than most.

 

Or, you know, any combination of two or three of those points.  But especially seeing as we have seen Vasher still dressing in scruffy clothes, belted with a simple, likely awakened, rope, still using Nalthian phrasing, I see Vivena having similar patterns.  Yes, she was in a state of self-image transition when last we saw her, but she also has far less experience with World-hopping than Vasher, and she was never good at blending in.

 

So I am looking for someone with a Nalthian name, Breath, Royal Locks, off colour speech patterns and accent, and familiarity with our other Nalthian.  Evi fits none of those, though we have not seen her interact with Zahel.

 

In any case, her name feels more Selish to me than Nalthian or Rosharan.  Which kind of fits that the Iriali, which could conceivably be the palindromic form of the Ire, are theroized to be Worldhoppers travelling the Cosmere, generation to generation, trying to be Adonalsium experiencing itself...

[SilverTiger]

Personally, I think we are going to see Vivenna somewhere near Vasher/Zahel. Although she may not be using color-based phrases, she is probably going to be wearing very plain clothing. Also, Evi had a hard time fitting in, and I can't see Vivenna being so clueless about stuff like safehands.