Nymeros Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 Le sigh.....never change 17th Shard. No I don't think this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bo.montier Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Nymeros said: Le sigh.....never change 17th Shard. No I don't think this is the case. Hahaha, Being a relative newbie here, some of these theories are so out there(to me)...I don't know how people put them together. Doesn't mean they're wrong, but I have no idea how people are getting from point A to point B so many times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuffel Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 I don't buy that Evi is Vivenna. If she was Renarin & Adolin would accidentally change there hair color in times of emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmithki Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Shuffel said: I don't buy that Evi is Vivenna. If she was Renarin & Adolin would accidentally change there hair color in times of emotion. It has been stated earlier (or elsewhere?) from a WoB and from warbreaker that the locks follow the children of whoever is in direct line for the throne or something along those lines. not the children of royalty, so no, they would not as they wouldn't actually have the locks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseSpren Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 I rememember when Zahel saved the priests daughter, he erased her memories of her imprisoning. Dalinar has no memories of his wife... Seems likewise (Sorry for my english) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 1 hour ago, NoiseSpren said: I rememember when Zahel saved the priests daughter, he erased her memories of her imprisoning. Dalinar has no memories of his wife... Seems likewise (Sorry for my english) Dalinar 's Memory Lost is caused by the Old Magic and by the way It's not a Simply Memory loss as every reference (past, present and future) is erased from his Active Mind. It's not related to Awakening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuffel Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 18 hours ago, Blacksmithki said: It has been stated earlier (or elsewhere?) from a WoB and from warbreaker that the locks follow the children of whoever is in direct line for the throne or something along those lines. not the children of royalty, so no, they would not as they wouldn't actually have the locks. I think this is incorrect. I believe the royal locks are genetic passed down from the famous returned(can't think of his name). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 29 minutes ago, Shuffel said: I think this is incorrect. I believe the royal locks are genetic passed down from the famous returned(can't think of his name). The Royal Locks are genetic passed down from Vo's lineage but you express them only if you are in the direct line for the throne. For example when, one of Vivienna's sibling will inherit the throne, all the other siblings will lost the Royal Locks because they are no more in the direct line (in the same way an hipotetical Vivienna's uncle has not the Royal Locks also if he is the king's brother. Already explained because (to me) that happens and others disagree with my point...the fact remains, Vo's descendants on Nalthis gained and losed Royal Locks depending on their position regard the Idris' Throne 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamstick Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 My (current) bet is Shallan's maid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elena Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 I know this theory is wild but I love it anyway. I already love Evi, so I'll just stick to dreaming that could happen. Also, upvote for the amazing thread title. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuffel Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 10/14/2017 at 8:16 AM, Yata said: The Royal Locks are genetic passed down from Vo's lineage but you express them only if you are in the direct line for the throne. For example when, one of Vivienna's sibling will inherit the throne, all the other siblings will lost the Royal Locks because they are no more in the direct line (in the same way an hipotetical Vivienna's uncle has not the Royal Locks also if he is the king's brother. Already explained because (to me) that happens and others disagree with my point...the fact remains, Vo's descendants on Nalthis gained and losed Royal Locks depending on their position regard the Idris' Throne I see your point and it's interesting. I think if this was the case then Vivenna would of lost her Royal locks once Siri became Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Energy Surge Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 25 minutes ago, Shuffel said: I see your point and it's interesting. I think if this was the case then Vivenna would of lost her Royal locks once Siri became Queen. Siri didn't become Queen of Idris. She became Queen of Hallandren. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 On 10/14/2017 at 2:09 AM, NoiseSpren said: I remember when Zahel saved the priests daughter, he erased her memories of her imprisoning. Dalinar has no memories of his wife... Seems likewise (Sorry for my english) Warbreaker Spoilers Spoiler You forget the crucial detail. Vasher was unable to erase the girl's memories himself. The magic system doesn't work that way. He had to come up with the proper command, tell the girl, and emphasize that she "say the words, and mean them." It also used the girl's own Breath, something Dalinar does not have. That is not even remotely similar to what happened to Dalinar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuffel Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Energy Surge said: Siri didn't become Queen of Idris. She became Queen of Hallandren. They were only exiled to Idris, they were originally the rulers of Halladren. Unless I am reading the Halladren wiki wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Shuffel said: They were only exiled to Idris, they were originally the rulers of Halladren. Unless I am reading the Halladren wiki wrong. "Used to be" is not the same as "is be." (which I'm fairly certain is grammatically correct, by the way ) It's perception. They used to rule Hallandren, but they were exiled and now run Idris. So the perception has shifted to them ruling Idris, thus the Locks only follow the ruler of Idris. The ruler of Hallandren has no perceptual ties to Idris anymore. Siri being made queen was a result of an arranged marriage/treaty, not some tradition. Edited October 18, 2017 by The One Who Connects 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuffel Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 On 10/17/2017 at 9:24 PM, The One Who Connects said: "Used to be" is not the same as "is be." (which I'm fairly certain is grammatically correct, by the way ) It's perception. They used to rule Hallandren, but they were exiled and now run Idris. So the perception has shifted to them ruling Idris, thus the Locks only follow the ruler of Idris. The ruler of Hallandren has no perceptual ties to Idris anymore. Siri being made queen was a result of an arranged marriage/treaty, not some tradition. Okay I have been dwelling on this for a few days. I understand perception plays a big part in the Cosmere, a good example of this is Kaladin's slave brands. If a returned returned without knowing he was a returned would he have the 5th heightening? Based on your logic he would not experience the 5th heightening. Please correct me if I misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Shuffel said: Okay I have been dwelling on this for a few days. I understand perception plays a big part in the Cosmere, a good example of this is Kaladin's slave brands. If a returned returned without knowing he was a returned would he have the 5th heightening? Based on your logic he would not experience the 5th heightening. Please correct me if I misunderstood. Every Returned can't know he is a Returned as just as he return to life but yet he gives of the whole Divine Breath's Biochromatic aura. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuffel Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, Yata said: Every Returned can't know he is a Returned as just as he return to life but yet he gives of the whole Divine Breath's Biochromatic aura. Exactly. A returned who doesn't perceive himself as a returned still experiences the 5th heightning. A child of the royal family who doesn't perceive himself as a child of the royal family should still experience the hair color change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Shuffel said: Based on your logic he would not experience the 5th heightening. Please correct me if I misunderstood. You did misunderstand, but not for the reason you think. The Biochromatic Aura is on by default. It takes skill in perception to suppress it, not to activate it. Vasher showcases this quite well, as he begins to grow towards his larger Returned proportions when he isn't concentrating. From the Annotations: Quote Notice how he grows in size here when he isn’t paying attention. That’s his Returned nature beginning to manifest, much like Vivenna’s hair reacts to her emotions, because of the moment of great passion from him during the fight. We posted at the same time, so edited in my response @Shuffel: 5 minutes ago, Shuffel said: A child of the royal family who doesn't perceive himself as a child of the royal family should still experience the hair color change. It's not just your perception influencing what is what. Quote Nepene () In Warbreaker Lightsong mentions that the Returned's forms are dependent on contemporary beauty standards. In The Emperor's Soul Shai implies that if others did not find the Emperor's Soul plausible it would not take as well. Is my reading of their statements correct, is their magic dependent on how others view you as well as how you view yourself? Brandon Sanderson Yes. This is a factor. fixed broken link Edited October 24, 2017 by The One Who Connects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todesengel Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) On 10/14/2017 at 5:16 AM, Yata said: The Royal Locks are genetic passed down from Vo's lineage but you express them only if you are in the direct line for the throne. For example when, one of Vivienna's sibling will inherit the throne, all the other siblings will lost the Royal Locks because they are no more in the direct line (in the same way an hipotetical Vivienna's uncle has not the Royal Locks also if he is the king's brother. Already explained because (to me) that happens and others disagree with my point...the fact remains, Vo's descendants on Nalthis gained and losed Royal Locks depending on their position regard the Idris' Throne Something else to consider about lineage and perception. We know that Denth was part of the royal lineage, because his hair flashed between a variety of colors eventually to white, just before he died. Denth was very likely part of the royal lineage, but certainly not direct in the way described here. I believe that any within the lineage will have the Royal Locks (and will be able to express the color change based on perception), not necessarily in direct line to the throne. So, although Vivenna might believe this to be the case, it isn't necessarily true. Edited October 24, 2017 by Todesengel Added change to reflect necessary perception 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackYeti Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 13 minutes ago, Todesengel said: We know that Denth was part of the royal lineage, because his hair flashed between a variety of colors eventually to white, just before he died. Denth was very likely part of the royal lineage, but certainly not direct in the way described here. What makes you think that he can't have been the son of a previous monarch of Idris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todesengel Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 minute ago, BlackYeti said: What makes you think that he can't have been the son of a previous monarch of Idris? Nothing. I wouldn't doubt it. I see no other explanation, in fact. But my interpretation of what I quoted was saying that only those in direct line to the throne, meaning the children of the current monarch, would be able to express the Royal Locks. I just wanted to bring up Denth to show how the direct line to the throne is likely not the reason why a person can express the Royal Locks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) On 15/10/2017 at 0:36 AM, iamstick said: My (current) bet is Shallan's maid The woman who wants to be Shallan's minion seems likely, though I suspect she might be Liss. Edited October 24, 2017 by Dahak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marethyu316 Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) On 10/24/2017 at 0:33 PM, Todesengel said: Nothing. I wouldn't doubt it. I see no other explanation, in fact. But my interpretation of what I quoted was saying that only those in direct line to the throne, meaning the children of the current monarch, would be able to express the Royal Locks. I just wanted to bring up Denth to show how the direct line to the throne is likely not the reason why a person can express the Royal Locks. I don't have Warbreaker in front of me, so I could be wrong, but did Siri and Vivenna believe that they would lose their own Royal Locks when their sibling took the throne? I thought it meant that their children wouldn't inherit, not that they would lose the ability themselves once they were no longer in the running. That would mean that Denth (in this scenario) only needed to be in the running when he was born. He would retain the ability, but his children wouldn't. On 10/17/2017 at 5:58 PM, Energy Surge said: Siri didn't become Queen of Idris. She became Queen of Hallandren. I think this is important, especially because she wasn't first in line to the throne. There's some ambiguity, because there was an intention to unify the lines, but I think her brother would still be considered the rightful heir. Edited November 1, 2017 by Marethyu316 fixing typos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erunion Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 Do we have WOB that royal cousins don’t have the locks? As in - if the middle sister had kids would they have the locks? However, we can’t jump to the conclusion that Denth was Royal. The Royal Locks are a holdover from their Returned progenitor. Denth is a Returned, suppressing his shape. Likely on one of many different faces. It is entirely plausible that any Returned can have flipping hair at death under the right conditions, and that the same may have happened to Vasher should he have died violently here. Doesnt mean hea NOT royal, merely that that conclusion is uncertain. What is certain however is that the scout is Vivenna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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