[OB] Why a Reverse Everstorm is significant

[ZenBossanova]

When Hoid pointed out to Jasnah that the Everstorm was going in the wrong direction, both of them realized it was very significant? But why? 

I think, that if the Everstorm was going along with the Highstorm, then Parshmen/Parshendi would only have limited choices or opportunities to do anything other than Voidform. 

But if the two storms are going in opposite directions, then many Parshendi, if not all, will have opportunity to see what life is like in both forms. They will have a real choice and a real opportunity, for other forms. They will have a choice which side they are on. 

This is why Kaladin's time with the Parshmen is so significant. 

[Shadowfax]

I think that's a very meta way of looking at it. I think they simply noticed a giant storm and saw it was not going the right direction. The significance of that indicates it wasn't a highstorm. Story-wise, it does give the Parshmen a chance to exist without having been through both storms one after the other, but I highly doubt that was in-world character thinking.

[ZenBossanova]

5 minutes ago, Shadowfax said:

I highly doubt that was in-world character thinking.

I don't think for a moment it was anyone's plan. But it is going to be a very important coincidence. 

Also, why would Jasnah say that everything she learned from the Highspren was potentially wrong, when she hears about the storm. 

[Shadowfax]

Just now, ZenBossanova said:

Also, why would Jasnah say that everything she learned from the Highspren was potentially wrong, when she hears about the storm.

We won't know until we learn what Jasnah had learned from the Highspren to begin with. We have no idea what they told her, or how outdated their information is. The Stormfather even commented on how this Everstorm is different. The Highspren, if they're the ones who survived the Recreance, live in the CR and wouldn't necessarily be up to date with what's going on in the PR.

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

Also, why would Jasnah say that everything she learned from the Highspren was potentially wrong, when she hears about the storm. 

Because in the past there was no Everstorm. The significance isn't in the storm going the wrong way, it's in a new storm. 

[Yata]

Jasnah is surprised because from the Spren's reports the Listeners-> Voidbringer didn't happen in that way and there were no Everstorms in the previous Desolations.

 

She spent time to recover informations and they could be all' useless (probably not all', but the Everstorm indicates a variability the previous Desolations had not)

Edited October 12, 2017 by Yata

[Aleksiel]

On one hand there hasn't been an everstorm before, so that makes its existence significant. Its direction is, too, because cities are built for highstorms coming from one direction, thus it's devastating to be hit by a storm from another.

[ZenBossanova]

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

Because in the past there was no Everstorm. The significance isn't in the storm going the wrong way, it's in a new storm. 

This is not the impression I had. I thought Desolations always had one.  Why do you say that there was no Everstorm before? 

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, ZenBossanova said:

This is not the impression I had. I thought Desolations always had one.  Why do you say that there was no Everstorm before? 

I'd suspected it before from what Jasnah said, but in the chapters, the Stormfather directly tells Dalinar that the storm is "something new, but old of design." 

It's new. The idea has been in the works for ages, but it's never before been implemented. 

[ZenBossanova]

So it is a new version of an old thing. No one said it had never been "implemented". 

[Blacksmithki]

5 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

So it is a new version of an old thing. No one said it had never been "implemented". 

Jasnah also said that the everstorm was not how it had happened (Desolation) in the past in the epilogue of WoR

[StormingTexan]

I also thought the main issue was with it going the wrong direction is the damage it will cause because everyone builds for a storm in one direction. For example windows are only put on leeward sides of houses. 

[Blacksmithki]

2 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I also thought the main issue was with it going the wrong direction is the damage it will cause because everyone builds for a storm in one direction. For example windows are only put on leeward sides of houses. 

That is a direct and major issue with it, however, it is clearly a major part of returning the desolation as it would appear the storm at the minimum marks the coming of a desolation and at most is how it will start and be the source of voidspren

[Aminar]

17 hours ago, Aleksiel said:

On one hand there hasn't been an everstorm before, so that makes its existence significant. Its direction is, too, because cities are built for highstorms coming from one direction, thus it's devastating to be hit by a storm from another.

This. This is the answer. 

The Everstorm has never been part of a desolation before so that's not it. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Aminar

[Kingsdaughter613]

I'd argue that our information is too vague; it's very possible that there was something similar to the Everstorm in the other desolations, but this one is different than the others. 

Actually, when I first saw Jasnah's line I read it as: in prior desolations the Everstorm came first, transforming Parshendi into Voidbringers. Someone or something else caused the storm then. In this time, the Parshendi transformed first and then summoned the Everstorm, which is not how this usually works.

I have to reread WoR though, so take the above with a grain of salt. I haven't read the book properly since it came out.

[Wreith]

As Calderis already said, the Stormfather specifically says this storm is something new.

[Kingsdaughter613]

There is evidence that something similar has happened though, which I literally just bumped into while rereading WoK. I took a picture of the relevant quote.

[Wreith]

8 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

There is evidence that something similar has happened though, which I literally just bumped into while rereading WoK. I took a picture of the relevant quote.

That's in reference to the Desolations, which previously didn't include a new storm as far as we know.

[Kingsdaughter613]

No, Jasnah adds 'the word Desolation is used twice in reference to their appearance.' Desolation is a REFERENCE not a description. 'Their appearance' has to do with Desolations. They are not the same thing.

And the description of something 'like a highstorm', but 'always unexpected' certainly sounds like either the Everstorm, or something very similar.

I wish we could see the rest of the document.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Kingsdaughter613

[Wreith]

3 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

No, Jasnah adds 'the word Desolation is used twice in reference to their appearance.' Desolation is a REFERENCE not a description. 'Their appearance' has to do with Desolations. They are not the same thing.

And the description of something 'like a highstorm', but 'always unexpected' certainly sounds like either the Everstorm, or something very similar.

I wish we could see the rest of the document.

"Their appearance" is in relation to the Voidbringers whom Jasnah is researching, not the Desolations

[Kingsdaughter613]

Not all the descriptions were of voidbringers. Jasnah was researching Desolations in general, voidbringers in specific. Regularly, on a set schedule like a Highstorm, is generally not how armies work. It is, however, almost word for word how people are describing the Everstorm.

This description does not sound like it is talking about Voidbringers. Even if Jasnah thinks it is, it's not like in-world theorists have never been wrong before.

[Wreith]

7 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Not all the descriptions were of voidbringers. Jasnah was researching Desolations in general, voidbringers in specific. Regularly, on a set schedule like a Highstorm, is generally not how armies work. It is, however, almost word for word how people are describing the Everstorm.

This description does not sound like it is talking about Voidbringers. Even if Jasnah thinks it is, it's not like in-world theorists have never been wrong before.

In that same chapter, Shallen reads Jasnah's notes about the line in the epigraph.

Quote

Innia, in her recordings of children's folktales, speaks of the Voidbringers as being "Like a highstorm, regular in their coming, yet always unexpected"

"The word Desolation is used twice in reference to their appearance..." Is Jasnah's note about that book in the context of her discussion of Voidbringers

[Kingsdaughter613]

She could still be wrong, and the description seems wrong for that. I seriously wish we had more than just an excerpt.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, and hope OB sheds more light on the matter.

[Grythe]

Assuming it is the first desolation involving a storm..

In previous desolations Odium used stone as a conduit for investiture (the thunderclasts). The storms seem to be associated with investiture through Honor's influence (the stormfather and Syl being mistaken for windspren). I wonder if the significance of a storm bearing voidspren is that after splintering Honor, Odium is able to invest in Roshar in a similar way to Honor, having taken in some of Honor's power (i.e. Via the storms). Given that Odium's intent is against Honor's it may mean his Odium controlled Honor investituture happens backwards in the physical realm (backwards highstorm).

I think the events Jasnah is referring to are earthquakes. I'm referencing 2 quotes from Dalinar's visions in WoK.

Quote

"The destruction spread far, lining the sides of the primitive streets. Had the city been hit by an earthquake?" Way of Kings, Chapter 60

Quote

"He backed away as everything began to shake, a massive earthquake accompanied by the terrible roar of dying rocks." Way of Kings, Chapter 75

A desolation preceded by an everstorm implies the worst desolation yet because it is a combination of Odium and Honor's investiture. This might be what Hoid is alluding to. 

Edited October 21, 2017 by Grythe

[Leyrann]

4 hours ago, Grythe said:

Assuming it is the first desolation involving a storm..

In previous desolations Odium used stone as a conduit for investiture (the thunderclasts). The storms seem to be associated with investiture through Honor's influence (the stormfather and Syl being mistaken for windspren). I wonder if the significance of a storm bearing voidspren is that after splintering Honor, Odium is able to invest in Roshar in a similar way to Honor, having taken in some of Honor's power (i.e. Via the storms). Given that Odium's intent is against Honor's it may mean his Odium controlled Honor investituture happens backwards in the physical realm (backwards highstorm).

I think the events Jasnah is referring to are earthquakes. I'm referencing 2 quotes from Dalinar's visions in WoK.

A desolation preceded by an everstorm implies the worst desolation yet because it is a combination of Odium and Honor's investiture. This might be what Hoid is alluding to. 

Odium doesn't want to pick up any power of the other shards, however, as he knows that would change the way he himself would be, and he does not want that.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=675#12

I'm curious, by the way, where the connection of Odium with stone comes from. I haven't seen anything that points one way or the other, but many people here seem to think it quite likely, so I was wondering if someone could point me towards some theories or something.