[OB] Oathbringer chapters 13-15

[Daishi5]

1 minute ago, king of nowhere said:

So... does it mean dividing by zero becomes acceptable in human society after performing proper rituals?

Math uh... finds a way.

[PunSpren he/him]

11 minutes ago, Flywinged said:

Really? I just read this as she wasn't looking forward to having to use the blade. 

I may have jumped the gun a bit, But a statement like that, hidden around other tension from another event would fit well with the misdirection Brandon uses to foreshadow without us noticing lol. If we see any more like that we will know we need to pay more attention. For now probably best to wait for more evidence.

[Bcknight2]

4 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

So... does it mean dividing by zero becomes acceptable in human society after performing proper rituals?

Indeterminate.

[yulerule]

I just thought of something - the transformed Parshmen who are probably non-Voidbringers spoke in perfect Alethi. Probably because that's the only language they ever heard. But did they attune Rythyms? Do they even know about Rythyms? Can they speak without Rythyms?

I want to see what happens when a non-Voided Parshendi meets a non-Void transformed Parshmen.

[17th Splinter he/him]

My thoughts

1. Veil is back

2. Shallan's interesting way of dealing with truth

3. Urithiru's hallways are effecting Shallan

4. Pattern's chaperoning - Dividing by zero? - NO MATING

5. Parshendi either have new form, or workform

6. The yellow spren - Probably have one voidbringer with them

7. Cryptics sending another to bond

8. Shallan feels pain when holding the shardblade, unless she is someone else

Overall amazing chapters!

 

Noooo! My upvotes are out!!

Edited September 26, 2017 by 17th Splinter

[Knabepicer]

4 minutes ago, Flywinged said:

I'm wondering if Zahel is going to make another appearance in this book. I'd be interested in seeing his interactions with Shallan. The Sprenblade concept reminds me a lot of the whole Nightblood thing... I wonder if he will avoid the radiants or embrace them because of that.

Nightblood was apparently inspired by Shardblades.

[Argent he/him]

Chapter 13: Chaperone

What a fun chapter! I don't think there are many things I can comment on specifically, but overall, it's just quality fun. I needed that. Pattern's "No mating!" calls are bound to turn into a meme before long (and I am waiting on the fanart). And his "dividing by zero" line almost had me laughing out loud. Just... what a fun a chapter!

One tiny thing I liked from the chapter is that the setting sun is described as "casting ruby and topaz light". Not red and yellow, ruby and topaz - which is so much more in-world. I am a huge fan of those turns of phrase. 

Chapter 14: Squires Can’t Capture

Quote

“So…” the female said. “You’re saying you don’t know how to play the game after all.”

The male began gathering up the cards. “I should know, Khen. How many times did I watch them play? Standing there with my tray of drinks. I should be an expert at this, shouldn’t I?”

Instant sympathy!

Quote

Something zipped through the air, a glowing yellow ribbon, a streak of light in the dim afternoon shade.

Hmm, what is this? The only sensible guess right now is one of those comet spren, but I don't think that's it. Also, did the voice come from it?

Chapter 15: Brightness Radiant

Oh, come on, give me Kaladin back!

Quote

“I know it’s not feminine, but who cares? You’ve got a sword; you should know how to use it, and custom can go to Damnation. There, I said it.” He took a deep breath. “I mean, the bridgeboy can have one, and he’s darkeyed. Well, he was. Anyway, it’s not so different from that.”

Adolin Kholin, progressive. It is easy to like him.

Quote

Thank you, Shallan thought, for ranking all women as something equivalent to peasants. But she held her tongue. This was obviously an important moment for Adolin, and he was trying to be broad-minded.

Shallan Davar, not so progressive. Darkeyes are people too, baby girl, don't be like that!

Quote

“Great!” Adolin said. “Great. I brought the Blade guards so we won’t hurt each other. I stashed them back at the guard post. I’ll go fetch them.”

Oh, because of course he would. Should've seen that. Dueling is his life, of course he would be more than eager to share that with his betrothed. 

Quote

“It’s because you hate me,” Pattern said softly. “I can die, Shallan. I can go. They will send you another to bond.”

Oh, it's interesting that the Cryptics will send another. Also, Pattern's constant willingness to die, it's breaking my heart. Accept him already, Shallan!

Quote

When Adolin returned to the room a moment later, he found a poised, calm woman who wasn’t quite Shallan Davar. Brightness Radiant is her name, she thought. She will go only by title.

So, this is interesting. We saw some of this in Words of Radiance, but it's much clearer now that Shallan, or perhaps all Lightweavers, can (temporarily) change people, including themselves. Shallan in particular seems to be putting together a portfolio of personas - first Veil, now Brightness Radiant. Obviously this is a terrible coping mechanism, though it is something; still, it's going bite her in the rear sometime in the future (maybe she'll have to give it up as her Ideal?), and boy, is that going to suck for her. 

I'm excited to see her portfolio grow though.

Quote

“Pattern,” she said, “can modulate his shape, and will dull his edge to safe levels. I shan’t need such a clunky device.” Indeed, Pattern’s edge rippled, dulling.

Uh, that's a very... formal Shallan. Don't like it. 

Quote

Shallan glanced down, realizing that she’d enhanced her bust in this guise. Not for him, of course. She’d just been making herself look more like Jasnah.

lol

 

[Daishi5]

Just now, PunSpren said:

I may have jumped the gun a bit, But a statement like that, hidden around other tension from another event would fit well with the misdirection Brandon uses to foreshadow without us noticing lol. If we see any more like that we will know we need to pay more attention. For now probably best to wait for more evidence.

The problem is, Brandon's really good foreshadowing is obvious in retrospect but hard to catch beforehand, like that comment I quoted in WoR about the Parshmen only needing to walk away to cause devastation.  At the time, it just seemed like a comment to reinforce how bad things would be when the Parshmen became violent.

[Ryder]

1 minute ago, Flywinged said:

I'm wondering if Zahel is going to make another appearance in this book. I'd be interested in seeing his interactions with Shallan. The Sprenblade concept reminds me a lot of the whole Nightblood thing... I wonder if he will avoid the radiants or embrace them because of that.

Nightblood was created as an attempt to replicate shardblades so it's no wonder they're similar.

[Stark he/him]

Also, noting that the Patternblade is not as long as Shallan is tall, does this make Pattern the smallest shardblade?  Isn't Shallan on the shorter side, and most blades (albeit, dead ones) are about 2m long?

 

Quote

The Blade formed—a long, thin weapon nearly as tall as she was.

 

[Agent34]

I checked Coppermind's Listener page and the only form described as having hair was nimbleform but the "Voidbringers" were described as having bulky frames so I'd say it's a new form.
Edit: This was meant to be in response to a post mentioning form but new messages came in, in the event it seems out of context.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Agent34

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

2 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

the "Voidbringers" were described as having bulky frames so I'd say it's a new form.

Card-playing form?

[17th Splinter he/him]

24 minutes ago, Stark said:

So, total thoughts:

 

I am unbelievably happy that not all listeners have gone dark side.  And that a non-red spren seems to be helping them.  I'm hoping that Kaladin helps these ones, and links back to the end of WoK when he told Dalinar that Bridge four would not fight them.  I want to see what happens here.  And that spren are helping them, that is huge.  And it seems like truespren, sapient in its own right if it is communicating and standing guard, so who is it bonding to?

Truespren? where is that mentioned?

Personally I think it is still a voidspren. The stormforms bonded with angerspren that is why they had red spren. I think a different voidform would have a different spren. But i still want a non voidbringer spren-bonded parshendi

[kari-no-sugata]

3 minutes ago, Emerald101 said:

The really intriguing thing though, is what Shallan does in shifting persona. I'm not 100% sure if this is just a psychological shift, but her heart rate slows down as she does it, I think it may be a specialized use of transformation, in addition to the lightweaving she does. The way Adolin talks about respecting the blade and things is definitely a point in favor of Blade revival.

Speaking in general: it's worth remembering just how horrible killing her own mother was for Shallan. She didn't speak for 6 months and was close to becoming truly broken. This is not your common trauma. Now she can't hide from the fact of what she did so it's super painful for her to wield the blade again. It's her trauma in the flesh, basically. So it's no wonder that she's having a panic attack. If Adolin wasn't there she wouldn't even try to do this, but for his sake she effectively takes control by inventing a custom new persona for the task. The new persona isn't Shallan so doesn't have Shallan's fears. Or at least, that's what Shallan thinks, hence she can calm down.

So with regards to your specific suggestions: We have seen Shallan "Transformation" on others it seems but it hasn't really been defined. So I think this is a good suggestion. Is this another example of using Transformation on people? Going by how Brandon tends to setup his magic systems, perception makes a big difference. So how Shallan thinks of something makes a big difference. It would seem likely that it's much harder to transform people than objects (due to existing Investiture), so it's possible that using Transformation on people normally has very weak effects. So it could be just a mental trick or it could be enhanced but it would perhaps be too big a coincidence that Shallan has the Transformation Surge. I guess the question then becomes is just how typical this is of Lightweavers - is this normal or is it extreme?

Regarding Adolin I agree.

[Agent34]

Just now, Toaster Retribution said:

Card-playing form?

Tavernform 

[Nymeros]

40 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Shallan's adopting of the Brightness Radiant persona feels very much like Soulforging, from Emperor's Soul, 

I thought the same. The changes to Shallans personality seems like a magic of its own though it could be that unholy acting talent comes with her mnemonic abilities.

57 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Also the chapter epigraphs appear to not be helpful 

None of them are. Theyre the first thing i read but I never learn anything....beyond that writing the book was totally neccessary....like for reals neccessary.

45 minutes ago, yulerule said:

So we basically get confirmation that some Parshmen transformed into non-Void forms. And that they have at least vague memories from slaveform.

Yep. Though truly I felt this would be the case when the description for the book indicated that the Parshmen would be awakened to the horrors of their enslavement.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Nymeros

[yulerule]

All of Brandon's WoBs about Parshmen implied that the vast majority would turn into Voidbringers, and only those inside during an Everstorm MIGHT (small probability) transform into non-Void forms.

Also, the Everstorm keeps coming. It might transform more of the non-Void into Voidbringers every cycle. It still has red spren zipping around inside.

 

[kari-no-sugata]

15 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

So... does it mean dividing by zero becomes acceptable in human society after performing proper rituals?

Shallan would probably use imaginary numbers.

[kiapet]

The descriptions of the Parshmen sounded a lot like Workform to me- stocky, hair strands, and it was one of the first forms the Parshendi discovered so it's probably simple.

I'm glad Kaladin has met them- he's in a unique position to understand them and possibly gain their trust.

I've always been pro-Adolin and Shallan more than others, but based on these chapters they really work. If they can talk and be honest with each other, they'd actually find they have more in common than they think.

[Asrael he/him]

Not to be crass... But given that spren come from the cognitive realm, and the cognitive realm is composed of the things people think about, and given the overwhelming popularity of sex in the real world...... I'm just saying, Spren shouldn't have much to be curious about, there's probably whole Shadesmar continents devoted to the subject o_0

[WatcherofTruth]

Maybe a small thing but did anyone else notice that Urithiru's walls couldn't be scratched by an ordinary blade? Now I'm even more curious about how it was built, and to find out if the modern radiants can replicate it.

[kiapet]

2 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

Shallan would probably use imaginary numbers.

Imaginary numbers are for taking the square root of negative numbers. As far as I know you still can't divide by zero.

[Darvys]

It's strange, the only explanation i can think of is that there aren't enough voidspren to go around, because what could a parshman do that a voidbringer bound to Odium's will (i assume) can't do better ?

[Steeldancer he/him]

Is no one going to pay attention to the whole "if I die, they'll send another one" thing? Is pattern replaceable? 

Is... syl... replaceable?????

This is huge. I thought if you killed a spren, that was IT. But apparently another one would come. That is downright disturbing. 

[Tai'shar-Malkier]

These past six chapters have been so lighthearted and happy, its great and I love it, but when will the other shoe drop