Use of investiture

[Highline he/him]

Can worldhoppers use investiture on a planet other than the planet with which the shard is associated with? For instance can Vasher/Zahel awaken something on Roshar? Could an allomancer burn metals somewhere other than on scadrial? 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Mr.Brough

[Weltall]

We've also seen Hoid take advantage of the passive benefits of BioChroma on Roshar when he mentions that tuning his instrument has become so much easier since he gained perfect pitch. Basically, with a few exceptions Investiture can be used anywhere as long as you have any fuel or other necessary components (Stormlight, metal for Scadrian magic though it doesn't have to be metal from Scadrial etc.) that the magic requires. The noteworthy exception is Selish magic, which has issues owing to the Dor being stuffed into the location-dependent Cognitive Realm, as opposed to the location-independent Spiritual Realm.

[Julio]

Yes. We've seen Hoid use Allomancy on Roshar. 

[Dunkum he/him]

1 hour ago, 18th Shard said:

Yes. Some magics, such as the metallic arts, are accessible everywhere (ala Hoid). Some, such as those from Sel, are practically impossible offplanet, but not actually impossible (i.e. they are so hard that it is currently easier to do it some other way.) Surgebinding seem so far to be the middle of the road, requiring some hacks to the system to hook it up to the right power source, but otherwise not impossible. Awakening has not been seen off planet yet, though not for lack of trying on Zahel's part. It is, in my opinion, probably between Surgebinding and Selish magics in difficulty.

tl;dr - Yes, though it requires hacks sometimes, which can vary from very easy to storming impossible.

I thought the difficulty with awakening wasn't that it was offworld so much as that he didn't know how to hack it to use stormlight as fuel (and/or it can't use stormlight as fuel).  I don't think we have any reason to believe that a worldhopper with a stash of breaths couldnt awaken just as well on another world as they did on nalthis.

[Yata he/him]

On 24/9/2017 at 0:38 AM, 18th Shard said:

Correct. By off world, I meant using a planet's natural investiture (e.g. Stormlight) as opposed to the natural one for the system (Breaths). Sorry if that wasn't clear. The Stormlight should act as a breath equivalent, as they're both investiture (which it does for Returned and Nightblood's consuming, but not awakening). Therefore, there is something different in the 'flavor' or type of the investiture that Awakening requires. We don't know what that is, but WoB implies it is possible to hack stormlight to enable this. 

I believe the problem in Stormlight-Awakening is more pratical than skill-centric. The Breath is sticky and It would remains into the target to fuel the Awakening. Stormlight instead is extremely volatile and leaky. To me the problem is more into the "if I Awake with Stormlight, the Investiture doesn't hold and leak away from the target"

Edited September 26, 2017 by Yata

[18th Shard he/him]

Yes. Some magics, such as the metallic arts, are accessible everywhere (ala Hoid). Some, such as those from Sel, are practically impossible offplanet, but not actually impossible (i.e. they are so hard that it is currently easier to do it some other way.) Surgebinding seem so far to be the middle of the road, requiring some hacks to the system to hook it up to the right power source, but otherwise not impossible. Awakening has not been seen off planet yet, though not for lack of trying on Zahel's part. It is, in my opinion, probably between Surgebinding and Selish magics in difficulty.

tl;dr - Yes, though it requires hacks sometimes, which can vary from very easy to storming impossible.

[18th Shard he/him]

4 minutes ago, Dunkum said:

I thought the difficulty with awakening wasn't that it was offworld so much as that he didn't know how to hack it to use stormlight as fuel (and/or it can't use stormlight as fuel).  I don't think we have any reason to believe that a worldhopper with a stash of breaths couldnt awaken just as well on another world as they did on nalthis.

Correct. By off world, I meant using a planet's natural investiture (e.g. Stormlight) as opposed to the natural one for the system (Breaths). Sorry if that wasn't clear. The Stormlight should act as a breath equivalent, as they're both investiture (which it does for Returned and Nightblood's consuming, but not awakening). Therefore, there is something different in the 'flavor' or type of the investiture that Awakening requires. We don't know what that is, but WoB implies it is possible to hack stormlight to enable this. 

[jons]

Can metal natively forged on Roshar be used to power allomancy?   

I always assumed that the investiture was natively imbued into the metal when it's forged on Scadrial.  Forging iron on Scadrial would have the necessary investiture to power allomancy but iron forged on Roshar would not.  Is this correct?

Edited September 26, 2017 by jons

[+Extesian he/him]

Metal from any source, mined elsewhere or soulcast, is allomantically viable. It's the molecular structure of metals that provide the focus for the metallic arts, not Scadrian metal being invested. With alloys though it needs to be the right composition

Quote

THECHRONICFERUCHEMIST

If I were to Soulcast pewter, the way Shallan does with the blood in The Way of Kings, would an Allomancer be able to use it?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You could create Allomantically viable metals, yes.

THECHRONICFERUCHEMIST

But is it automatic?

BRANDON SANDERSON

I would say that the pure metals are, but the alloys are not.

 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 9/24/2017 at 0:03 AM, Yata said:

I believe the problem in Stormlight-Awakening is more practical than skill-centric. Stormlight is extremely volatile and leaky. To me the problem is more into the "if I Awake with Stormlight, the Investiture doesn't hold and leak away from the target"

That makes me curious about how practical this would be.

Quote

Q: Since Stormlight and Breath are both investiture, would it be possible to use Nightblood with the former rather than the latter? Would it be possible to store Stormlight in metal using Feruchemy?
 
A: Mixing the magics is possible, but some are easier and more natural than other. Feeding Stormlight to Nightblood is easy. Storing Stormlight in metal is tough.

I feel that it wouldn't leak from a Metalmind, but I'm not sure why Stormlight in a Metalmind is any different from being in an awakened object.

[Weltall]

If you mean 'being in an Awakened object' by Nightblood then I think there's a fundamental difference in what the Stormlight is being asked to do. Storing it in a metalmind (or any bit of metal) implies that you want it to remain in a state that you can draw it out later and use it in Surgebinding. Feeding Stormlight to Nightblood is very different; it doesn't care about the form of Investiture and just needs some source of it when unsheathed, before turning on its weilder and nomming their lifeforce once it has no external supply.

In terms of using Stormlight in place of Breath as Awakening fuel, it probably has to do with the different nature of Endowment's Investiture that lets Breath be recovered after use with limited-to-no leakage (it's end-neutral) while Stormlight gets consumed much faster while it's busy doing stuff. Even if it is possible to fuel Awakening with Stormlight, it probably wouldn't last very long. The fact that Stormlight is a regularly renewing resource while Breath is a 'one per new human life' thing might be another underlying cause of this, or just a bit of real-world logic whose Realmatic underpinnings we can only guess at.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Weltall

[Yata he/him]

14 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

That makes me curious about how practical this would be.

I feel that it wouldn't leak from a Metalmind, but I'm not sure why Stormlight in a Metalmind is any different from being in an awakened object.

I am not sure about the "not leaking" but regardless, I believe the attribute in Feruchemy to be coded into...."Feruchemical compatible charge"  (without a better term) and the decoded upon tapping (we have a WoB that could confirm this (implicity) as the F-Niscosil could be used to hide from the Life Sense, if the Investiture remains the same, the Life Senser would still detect you as the Metalmind would "bip" his Lifesense.

By the way Breath is a bit weird when it comes to categories, it's Kinetic Investiture that could act under some circumstances as Innate Investiture...Probably I need to think on this more to make a proper model

[YourPancakefulness she/her]

On 9/23/2017 at 2:13 PM, Julio said:

Yes. We've seen Hoid use Allomancy on Roshar. 

When? I don't remember this at all.

[Julio]

1 hour ago, YourPancakefulness said:

When? I don't remember this at all.

It was in Words of Radiance. I believe it was in the Shallan flashback in which Hoid visited her house to deliver a message to her father. 

[YourPancakefulness she/her]

Would someone burning double gold be able to heal a shard blade wound?

[Allomancer Jack he/him]

6 minutes ago, YourPancakefulness said:

Would someone burning double gold be able to heal a shard blade wound?

I sure hope not, Roshar has enough problems already!

[Yata he/him]

1 hour ago, YourPancakefulness said:

Would someone burning double gold be able to heal a shard blade wound?

1 hour ago, Allomancer Jack said:

I sure hope not, Roshar has enough problems already!

F-Gold could heal Spiritual wounds.

[Calderis he/him]

2 hours ago, YourPancakefulness said:

Would someone burning double gold be able to heal a shard blade wound?

2 hours ago, Allomancer Jack said:

I sure hope not, Roshar has enough problems already!

As @Yata said it would work. If F-gold can heal Hemalurgic damage, it can heal Shardblade wounds.

Quote

Kurkistan

Could Miles heal back his Allomancy if it was spiked out of him?

Brandon Sanderson

No, he could not. He would no longer be an Allomancer. Also, he'd probably be dead.

Kurkistan

Thanks!

I'd thought maybe he could just do some super-tapping from his existing Health in his goldminds (since he'd still have his Feruchemy)...

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, I see what you're asking. Using Feruchemy to heal the removed portion of soul. That's actually plausible, not so different from healing other kinds of soul-wounds. If he survived, then yes, this actually might work. (That's why I get for reading the questions so quickly.)