[OB] I did not die...

[Varenus]

38 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I agree, that line implies that the author doesn't view themselves as a heretic and it is an assumption on the part of others. 

Jasnah is a self-proclaimed heretic, and to her the word simply means atheist. It's nothing worth mentioning. 

Combine this with the other line of having expected to die.... And no. If she thought she was going to die, she'd have fought back instead if waiting for the knife to drop and playing dead. 

I wouldn't assume that the "expecting to die" quote is in direct reference to her being stabbed. From the chapter of the boat scene we got from Jasnah's perspective( yes I know it's not fully canon), it did not seem like she was particularly safe in he cognitive realm. The last thing in that sample chapter was mention of a group of spren ( exhaustion spren?) about to attack her. We know that Jasnah is an accomplished soul caster, but the status of her familiarity with elscalling is unknown, I think. After all, she does warn Shallan regularly about the dangers of Shadesmar, and I would be shocked to find out that Jasnah has such control over the world of spren to be comfortable there for all that time. 

That being said, I am not so certain that Jasnah is the author. The problem is that who else could it be and why is the book called Oathbringer of all things? 

We know that the author can see into Shadesmar and beyond, has had or will have a near death experience, can write or have some one write for them, the book or concept for the book has bin in their head since youth, and is consider by some to be a godless hermitic. 

Upon further inspection, could the author be Dalinar himself? The Vorin church is on its way to opposing him( authoring a book is frowned upon in Vorin society), he has visions regularly, Navani could write the book for him, and its likely that he has or will have a near death experience at least once. He has not one, but three people close to home that could be considered to "see further than him" in terms of Shadesmar (Shallan(?), Jasnah, and Renarin). Also, who else except a bondsmith would name their book Oathbringer, which is both the name of his sword and what he does? The purpose of the book could even be to explain to rulers of Roshar why they need to join with him (which could be why some people are relived to read it). 

[Pattern he/him]

15 hours ago, Fulminato said:

the sunmaker? hardly

The sunmaker was king after the Hierocracy. He is not the original owner of Oathbringer. It happens only to have been his shardblade.
Of course, the Knight Radiant who had Oathbringer as a sprenblade and then betrayed his oaths probably would not have written a book about his blade either.

29 minutes ago, Varenus said:

Upon further inspection, could the author be Dalinar himself?

Dalinar would not have a book brewing in him since youth. Perhaps after he started having visions, but certainly not before.

If Oathbringer is in line with The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance (in-world books), then Oathbringer is also an ancient book. Of all known characters Jasnah would fit best, but although she is in her thirties, she cannot be considered ancient (and really, she wouldn't care if more women called her heretic).

Additionally I want to notice that the book Oathbringer does not necessarily have to be about the shardblade Oathbringer. The names could be coincidentally the same. I hope we will soon get more than the preface of Oathbringer. I'd like to know what the book is about. Possibly the history of the order of Bondsmiths (the sword is no Bondsmith sword, Bondsmiths don't have sprenblades).

 

Edited September 16, 2017 by Pattern

[Varenus]

@Pattern I agree that Oathbringer could very well be an ancient book like the others. In which case, I cannot wait to see how Dalinar got his shardblade and if it came with the name, he named it( which I doubt), or if Gavilar/ someone else named it for him. It seems likely that the connection between the sword and the book could stem from Gavilar's own Bondsmithness. 

I dissagree about the book brewing in Dalinar however. The phrasing is loose enough that he might not have literally been contemplating writing a book. But rather, the events of his youth resulted in the person who would eventually use those experiences to write said book. I think there is definently a parallel between Dalinar writing this book and Nohadon writing The Way of Kings. When Dalinar suggested in his vision that Nohadon write the book, Nohadon scoffed at him and pretty much called it s dumb idea. Dalinar would have done the same thing in his youth, but look at him now. Sure Dalinar was by far a worse person in his youth than Nohadon was at that time, but Dalinar could still channel his youthful experiences and older wisdom in a similar way that Nohadon did with the knowledge he obtained through living through a desolation and ruling successfully afterword. 

Edit: Why do you think Jasnah would not care if more women called her a heretic? Obviously she is more thick skinned than to get annoyed by it, but a large part of her character is fighting against the Vorin church and its perpetuation of sexist ideology. Even Shallan, who was inspired by Jasna and by the books Shallan read by her, still considered her a heretic. It seems like a large enough part of her life to include in a book which, I imagine, will reveal some very interesting information, and most of it is not likely to be Vorin approved.  

Edited September 16, 2017 by Varenus

[Pattern he/him]

2 hours ago, Varenus said:

Why do you think Jasnah would not care if more women called her a heretic?

Because Jasnah is being fine with being called a heretic. She sees nothing bad in it, so she doesn't care if anyone calls her that or not.

2 hours ago, Varenus said:

I cannot wait to see how Dalinar got his shardblade and if it came with the name, he named it( which I doubt), or if Gavilar/ someone else named it for him.

You can read about that in The Thrill, published in the anthology Unfettered II. Spoilers for The Thrill:

Spoiler

The blade came with the name, it is the old sword of the Sunmaker, from whom Sadeas' house derived its name. Suffice it to say that Dalinar got it in a not very nice way.

 

Edited September 16, 2017 by Pattern

[Fulminato he/him]

11 hours ago, Pattern said:

If Oathbringer is in line with The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance (in-world books), then Oathbringer is also an ancient book. Of all known characters Jasnah would fit best, but although she is in her thirties, she cannot be considered ancient (and really, she wouldn't care if more women called her heretic).

Additionally I want to notice that the book Oathbringer does not necessarily have to be about the shardblade Oathbringer. The names could be coincidentally the same. I hope we will soon get more than the preface of Oathbringer. I'd like to know what the book is about. Possibly the history of the order of Bondsmiths (the sword is no Bondsmith sword, Bondsmiths don't have sprenblades).

WotK is written in the shadowdays, WoR a couple of century after the recreance. oathbringer is written by a vorin man/woman. it's for sure a 'jounger' book compared to WotK and WoR. 

Edited September 16, 2017 by Fulminato

[The One Who Connects he/him]

17 hours ago, Pattern said:

I want to point out that the book Oathbringer does not necessarily have to be about the Shardblade Oathbringer. The names could be coincidentally the same.

It could also be by/about the event(s)/person that the Sword gained its name from. The KR didn't name their blades because their Spren already had names. That Spren name would not have been handed down with the blade at the Recreance.

Logically, Oathbringer gained its name at some point post-Recreance, but probably pre-Hierocracy. That name has to have come from somewhere, and we just happen to have a book of unknown age that shares the name. Coincidence? Personally, I don't think so.

Way of Kings was massively important to Dalinar in both books. Words of Radiants was a little less important, but it was still relevant at times. Now we have a book and a Shardblade that share the same name. I think there is gonna be a fair bit of relevance this time.

[Pattern he/him]

6 hours ago, Fulminato said:

WotK is written in the shadowdays, WoR a couple of century after the recreance. oathbringer is written by a vorin man/woman. it's for sure a 'jounger' book compared to WotK and WoR. 

Vorin culture predates the Hierocracy, since that is viewed as a stain in their history. So Oathbringer is surely written after the Recreance but not necessarily after the Hierocracy. If the trend to "younger" books continues, it might be well from the days of the Hierocracy though that is highly speculative. It would also be highly interesting, perhaps shedding light on these days.

 

28 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

It could also be by/about the event(s)/person that the Sword gained its name from.

This is what I see as the most common and likely interpretation. I wanted to point to possible alternatives, to keep our minds flexible.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Pattern

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

15 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Way of Kings was massively important to Dalinar in both books. Words of Radiants was a little less important, but it was still relevant at times.

I think Words of Radiance was mainly relevant for Shallan, who spent most of WoR hunting down a copy then got much of her information of the orders from there by the time they reached Urithiru.

[What's a Seawolf?]

Still think it's Navani.

[lastofus]

It can't be these guys:

• Heralds: Why do they only address women? Why are they considering themselves heretics? They have seen a woman fighter, a man reading etc... . They are alive since oathpact was made, heretic on what really?
• Taravengian, Szeth or any other male after Vorin doctrine was made. Again the same issue but in reverse. They are from a world when using books are feminine arts. They don't even know how to read. Even if somehow they write in words or glyphs, they are an anomaly, why they can't consider other anomalies? If I can do that so can another man.
• Anyone who's not a native in Roshar. Characters from Mistborn, Warbreaker etc. Again same reasons as above.  And basically they know other Gods and seen males read/write.

I have 3 options here, my theory is that Dalinar's sword is the center of it, so:

1. Jasnah, the "obvious choice". We have seen how she "died", and where she went. She could experience some torture in Shadesmar or even worldhopped somewhere.
2. Some woman close to Sunmaker. I can't put it past Sanderson to introduce a new character, but in book 3? If that's the case we probably see or hear about her in the following chapters.
3. Shshshsh, Dalinar's wife. Everyone thinks she's dead, but no one described how it happened. My theory is that she was captured by Dalinar's enemies, and he didn't back down so they "killed" her. Dalinar being the Blackthorn killed every one. She probably fell down the cliff and people were watching, but you don't need to be on the ground to access Shadesmar. The book can be in Jasnah's hands now as she was the first one from Roshar to visit Shadesmar recently. We don't know the boon Dalinar asked, but the curse is that he can't remember anything about Shshshsh. On the other hand, Dalinar really likes Jasnah because she

   Quote

   “She refused to join any of the devotaries because she did not believe in their teachings. Rather than compromise for the sake of appearances, she has been honest and has refused to make professions she does not believe. I find that a sign of honor.”

   So what about Shshshsh? Could she have the same qualities as Jasnah?

Out of these 3, I think the last one is the most logical choice.

[+robardin he/him]

27 minutes ago, lastofus said:

I have 3 options here, my theory is that Dalinar's sword is the center of it, so:

1. Jasnah, the "obvious choice".  ...
2. Some woman close to Sunmaker. I can't put it past Sanderson to introduce a new character, but in book 3? ...
3. Shshshsh, Dalinar's wife. Everyone thinks she's dead, but no one described how it happened. My theory is that she was captured by Dalinar's enemies, and he didn't back down so they "killed" her. Dalinar being the Blackthorn killed every one. She probably fell down the cliff and people were watching, but you don't need to be on the ground to access Shadesmar. ...So what about Shshshsh? Could she have the same qualities as Jasnah?

Out of these 3, I think the last one is the most logical choice.

I agree on #1 that Jasnah is "the obvious choice" based on what we know from Stormlight 1 and 2.

I also agree that, being wise to Brandon's shenanigans by now, that means it almost certainly isn't Jasnah. Whether or not that means your #2, that it's a whole new character we haven't been introduced to before, eh, that's kind of not his style either, unless as in Mistborn: The Final Empire the author of the in-world work is actually being introduced to us as a character through the chapter headings; or if per your #3, it's a character that's been talked about tangentially or in the third person for some time by the main characters.

But Shshshsh? I dunno. Not if that would require being like Jasnah, at any rate, as Navani describes her as being practically the opposite of Jasnah, in TWoK Ch. 64:

Quote

 

"Everyone loved Shshshsh," Navani said. "I tried hard to hate her, but in the end, I could only be mildly jealous."

"You? Jealous of her? Whatever for?"

"Because," Navani said. "She fit you so well, never making inappropriate comments, never bullying those around her, always so calm." Navani smiled. "Thinking back, I really should have been able to hate her. But she was just so nice. Though she wasn't very... well..."

"What?" Dalinar said.

"Clever," Navani said. She blushed, which was rare for her. "I'm sorry, Dalinar, but she just wasn't. She wasn't a fool, but... well... not everyone can be cunning. Perhaps that was part of her charm."

 

Nice, never inappropriate, sweet but not clever, bullying, or manipulative, where becoming a Surgebinder requires being "broken" in the soul in some way to be able to form a spren bond.

I mean, it could become true; I would be very interested to see how her portrait would change to make it plausible. But from what we know of Shshshsh right now, it'd be an unusual thing to predict.

 

 

 

[Stark he/him]

Yes Jasnah is heretic, according to Vorinism, but then so is Dalinar now.  Jasnah seems like far too obvious a choice.  I don't think a Kholin wrote this book.

 

Szeth is also a heretic, one who kills rather than grow.  One who walks on stones without hesitation.  One who was labelled Truthless.  He was bound by his Oathstone, which he brought to each new master, literally bringing the symbol of his oath.  And he did appear to die, and in the process may have glimpsed the CR.  I discount him as well however, as his mind is likely still too far shattered to write this book, yet.

 

Eshonai is a good choice.  There is the apparent death of falling into the chasms.  There is the metaphoric death of having her personality subsumed by the void.  But she was more explorer than scholar.  And I don't see how the title, Oathbringer, would factor into any of her writings, unless she is the first listener to bond a radiant spren, bringing the oaths to her people.

 

I feel that we need to look at the Sons of Honor as well.  They desire to bring back the Heralds and the Radiants, a heretical point of view at best.  That would have a focus on Oaths, and bringing them back.  It is possible that one of them, Restares maybe, glimpsed the CR after a deal with the Nightwatcher, that changed his life view enough that his previous being 'died'.

 

Or, least likely, but still possible, someone we have not yet met, or heard of directly wrote it.  I mean, WoK and WoR were in worlds books written by none of the main characters.  So that is possible here too.  Though I have heard it mentioned that they think Nohadon was Jezrien.  If we tug that thread a bit more, what if every one of the ten books we will hear about was written by a Herald.  What if the Herald writes the book that shares the title with the book for their order?  Jezrien writes Way of Kings, Shalash writes Words of Radiance, and Ishar, the one who brought Oaths to the orders in the first place, writes Oathbringer?

[lastofus]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

Nice, never inappropriate, sweet but not clever, bullying, or manipulative, where becoming a Surgebinder requires being "broken" in the soul in some way to be able to form a spren bond.

I mean, it could become true; I would be very interested to see how her portrait would change to make it plausible. But from what we know of Shshshsh right now, it'd be an unusual thing to predict.

Thanks for the quote, I had forgotten about this part. But to go with my theory, being a heretic doesn't make you bullying or manipulative, but I concede that until we know more about the past, the probability is way lower than my #2 guess.

Quote

"I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims."

She could still be the one, but either people forgot about her/scared of Dalinar, or only she assumes that.

 

35 minutes ago, Stark said:

Szeth is also a heretic, one who kills rather than grow.  One who walks on stones without hesitation.  One who was labelled Truthless.  He was bound by his Oathstone, which he brought to each new master, literally bringing the symbol of his oath.  And he did appear to die, and in the process may have glimpsed the CR.  I discount him as well however, as his mind is likely still too far shattered to write this book, yet.

Szeth, even if he was sane, certainly wouldn't say just "women". He can read and write, so there's a chance that the culture is different from Alethi, but then why "only women reading it"?

 

35 minutes ago, Stark said:

Eshonai is a good choice.

The wording is Alethi, or at least the same as human beings in Roshar. Nothing alike how Parshendi writes. And again she is not bound by the same ideas as Vorin Church. Why do only women read it?

 

42 minutes ago, Stark said:

I feel that we need to look at the Sons of Honor as well.  They desire to bring back the Heralds and the Radiants, a heretical point of view at best.  That would have a focus on Oaths, and bringing them back.  It is possible that one of them, Restares maybe, glimpsed the CR after a deal with the Nightwatcher, that changed his life view enough that his previous being 'died'.

 

Technically, they want to bring Heralds and the Church back, not the Radiants. So they are fanatics, not heretics. 

 

48 minutes ago, Stark said:

 Though I have heard it mentioned that they think Nohadon was Jezrien.  If we tug that thread a bit more, what if every one of the ten books we will hear about was written by a Herald.  What if the Herald writes the book that shares the title with the book for their order?  Jezrien writes Way of Kings, Shalash writes Words of Radiance, and Ishar, the one who brought Oaths to the orders in the first place, writes Oathbringer?

Now that's strange. Dalinar "saw" Nohadon, if he were in fact Jezrien the scene would be totally different. Anyway, again, why in world would a Radiant omit men? It doesn't make any sense.

[Stark he/him]

@lastofus  I will point out that I have discounted both Szeth and Eshonai for a few reasons.  The Sons of Honor, developing a writing system that cuts out women, could be viewed as heretical by some of the more conservative Ardents.  And their fascination with the return of the Radiants would be definitely heretical, given the church's view on them post Recreance.  So I think they are still valid.

 

As for the Heralds, well, we have seen that they have numerous names, and have taken different guises.  Dalinar did see Nohadon in a vision.  But that does not mean he would instinctively know he was talking to a Herald.  But you are right, the Nohadon we saw in the vision was not behaving the way we would expect a Herald with more knowledge of the situation to respond.

 

That said, these visions are constructs of Honor's devising, acting a bit like pre-programmed holodeck tapes.  Dalinar has agency within them, and the people inside respond to him.  That does not strike me as memories being replayed, but constructs.  We have no guarantee that Tanavst made interactive recordings of memories, or designed his own narrative from scratch.  We don't know if these scenes happened as displayed for real, or even at all.  We know the first is a pure construct thanks to the Stormfather.  Others could be too.

 

We can't tell for sure.  Yet.

[BlackYeti he/him]

It's got to be Kelsier writing the book, doesn't it? Just reading through the epigraphs and imagining him writing them, it's spooky how much of it fits.

Disclaimer: I don't actually think that it's him, I'm just very surprised that I haven't seen anyone proposing him yet. But if it somehow does turn out to be him, I reserve the right to say: "I told you so!"

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 9/18/2017 at 7:47 AM, lastofus said:

Taravengian, Szeth or any other male after Vorin doctrine was made. Again the same issue but in reverse. They are from a world when using books are feminine arts. They don't even know how to read. Even if somehow they write in words or glyphs, they are an anomaly, why they can't consider other anomalies? If I can do that so can another man.

The instructions Szeth is given by Taravangian are in the "warrior's script of his homeland." Szeth can read, and most likely write in that script. Szeth does not appear to be from a culture where books are a feminine art. He also isn't an anomaly, given warrior's script.
Taravangian can both read and write in Alethi Women's Script, and possibly write in Shin warrior's script too. Shin is certainly an anomaly, and Women's Script was self taught(I believe).
Amaram can write in Stormwarden Script, but that's actually cheating.

I don't see why "anomaly" came up, but I might be misremembering the epigraphs. Why is the anomaly argument relevant?

[StormingTexan he/him]

As I’ve read them I’ve felt like it is 90% Jasnah but the 10% left over feels 100% not Jasnah. 

Edit: The only thing besides some odd wording that excluded Dalinar for me was the line about the other realms (can’t remeber the exact wording but eluded to Shadesmar) but I think this can now be explained with the upcoming vision invasion via Stormfathernet so I’m going to say it’s Dalinar.

Edited November 5, 2017 by StormingTexan

[Calderis he/him]

On the topic of males reading and writing, I don't think the Shin are an anomaly. 

The Azish all read and write. It's a requirement for their process to become prime in writing an essay. 

Literacy being solely female seems to be a purely Vorin tradition. 

[lastofus]

7 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

The instructions Szeth is given by Taravangian are in the "warrior's script of his homeland." Szeth can read, and most likely write in that script. Szeth does not appear to be from a culture where books are a feminine art. He also isn't an anomaly, given warrior's script.
Taravangian can both read and write in Alethi Women's Script, and possibly write in Shin warrior's script too. Shin is certainly an anomaly, and Women's Script was self taught(I believe).
Amaram can write in Stormwarden Script, but that's actually cheating.

I don't see why "anomaly" came up, but I might be misremembering the epigraphs. Why is the anomaly argument relevant?

Let's say I am the "anomaly". I can read and write in a language that ONLY a specific gender/race/etc can communicate with. Is it that easy to discard myself and any other "anomaly" that came before or comes after me and only target that specific people?

If the writer is male, and didn't ask a woman to write the text for him, he should have known that other anomalies like himself can and will happen. So they wouldn't write "I know that many women who read this", and instead would have said "I know that people who read this" or anything equivalent to that. That's my argument.

Plus I don't think the text is in glyph language, I think you don't either. So probably the writer is not Amaram at all.

 

EDIT: In other words, why do you write about something when you, yourself are the contradiction of that.

Edited November 5, 2017 by lastofus

[Ansalem]

12 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

The instructions Szeth is given by Taravangian are in the "warrior's script of his homeland." Szeth can read, and most likely write in that script. Szeth does not appear to be from a culture where books are a feminine art. He also isn't an anomaly, given warrior's script.
Taravangian can both read and write in Alethi Women's Script, and possibly write in Shin warrior's script too. Shin is certainly an anomaly, and Women's Script was self taught(I believe).
Amaram can write in Stormwarden Script, but that's actually cheating.

I don't see why "anomaly" came up, but I might be misremembering the epigraphs. Why is the anomaly argument relevant?

Szeth can also write the Alethi Women's Script. When he killed Gavilar, he wrote Gavilar's last words to Dalinar. Everyone assumed Gavilar learned to write in the late part of his life and wrote it himself, which means it must have been written in Alethi. If it had been written in Shin, no one would have thought Gavilar wrote it, they would have suspected the Shin assassin. It would have sparked discussion and speculation by the Alethi instead of people just assuming Gavilar wrote it, think it's odd, then move on.

So, Szeth can read and write in at least two languages.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

3 hours ago, Ansalem said:

Szeth can also write the Alethi Women's Script. When he killed Gavilar, he wrote Gavilar's last words to Dalinar.

Indeed he did. Thank you for reminding me of that. It's been too long since I reread to look for smaller details

8 hours ago, lastofus said:

Plus I don't think the text is in glyph language, I think you don't either. So probably the writer is not Amaram at all.

You would be correct. I mainly brought him up as another example of males who can read/write.

8 hours ago, lastofus said:

If the writer is male, and didn't ask a woman to write the text for him, he should have known that other anomalies like himself can and will happen. So they wouldn't write "I know that many women who read this", and instead would have said "I know that people who read this" or anything equivalent to that. That's my argument.

Taking a glance at the wiki pages for various works of literature wasn't too helpful. Does anyone know if a book dictated by a male would have that male listed as the author? I ask this because if works dictated by a male have that male listed as the "author," then a book written by a male would not actually stand out unless the author points it out himself(for whatever reason).

• [light-bulb moment] The "women who read this" tidbit could be a clue about the intended(or expected) audience of the book. In this case: the Vorin crowd, where women read and men don't.

We can contextually use the women line to imply it's being written in a Vorin nation or for a Vorin readerbase, but there aren't many extra secrets to glean beyond that. The following line is a segue into the next train of thought, so the only context we can gain is from the preceding lines.

• I'm certain that some people will feel threatened by this record.
  • It's a record of something, sometime, someplace or someone. A record of something is generally non-fiction. The existence of this record will threaten some people, and the author knows this. Whatever the subject of this record, it's a big deal to some people.
• Some few may feel liberated.
  • The existence or content of the record might let some people feel liberated. Liberate is generally used to mean freeing from something, be it prison, slavery, or social roles/pressures. Given the usage of "few" and "may," I have my doubts that this book will contain something to upturn society as they know it. It might be a big deal, but I don't think we have another Arts and Majesty on our hands.
• Most will simply feel that it should not exist.
  • The author believes that the majority of people will consider the record as either pointless, unnecessary, or wrong. With the heretic line later on, that "wrong" may be replaced with sacrilegious. Something that the masses think doesn't merit being recorded, isn't worth the time spent recording, or shouldn't be kept on record.
    • The first two would imply the subject of the record is something trivial or irrelevant. The third implies the subject is something people want to forget about entirely, or something people want to remain ignorant about. Personally, I'd put my money on option three.
• I needed to write it anyway.
  • Even in the face of majority opinion being between meh to unhappy about the record, the author felt that it had to be written. "Needed to" should preclude the possibility that the author is writing it to be stubborn, but I'm bringing it up to be thorough.
• I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims.
  • The author does not see themself as a heretic, but acknowledges that most everyone else(that he knows, in his nation, in the world? lacking in scope) sees them as one. The author feels that many of the women who read the book will consider it as proof of heresy. The usage of women specifically could mean one of three things:
    1. The author expects/intends the book to be read in Vorin nations, where (almost) exclusively women can read.
    2. Something in the content of the book will affect women specifically, but not bother male readers.
    3. Male doing a Female-only activity, Female doing a Male-only activity? Either within the content or by creating the record itself.
  • The usage of "many" is interesting. The usage of most in a prior sentence to imply majority but not here implies that a good number of women will see the book or its content as heretical, but not the majority. Whether this book or its contents are heretical will be a subject of debate, not something widely agreed upon.

All in all, I think we are looking too deeply into specific wording. The line hardly even stands out when viewed in the full preface.

[lastofus]

9 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Taking a glance at the wiki pages for various works of literature wasn't too helpful. Does anyone know if a book dictated by a male would have that male listed as the author? I ask this because if works dictated by a male have that male listed as the "author," then a book written by a male would not actually stand out unless the author points it out himself(for whatever reason).

• [light-bulb moment] The "women who read this" tidbit could be a clue about the intended(or expected) audience of the book. In this case: the Vorin crowd, where women read and men don't.

 

Gavilar's biography while he was still alive which was written by Jasnah, and another written by Navani after his death. But in Jasnah's book, he's mentioned in first person, but the book itself is written by Jasnah.

[The light-bulb moment] I thought that was common knowledge. I based everything that I have written here til now on it. :-/

Edited November 6, 2017 by lastofus

[The One Who Connects he/him]

6 hours ago, lastofus said:

[The light-bulb moment] I thought that was common knowledge. I based everything that I have written here til now on it. :-/

People have primarily been using that line to imply that the author is Vorin, which is not the same thing as saying the book is written for a Vorin audience.

It's like saying a book where they spell color as "colour" means that the author is automatically British, where it could just as easily be a Chinese fellow who wanted to publish in Britain.

The way most people see it, it's gotta be a Vorin figure. The way I worded the light-bulb moment, even Szeth or the Aziri Prime could theoretically have written it.

[aemetha he/him]

Quote

"I’m certain some will feel threatened by this record. Some few may feel liberated. Most will simply feel that it should not exist."

A religion disabused.

Quote

"I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims."

What is more heretical than killing god?

Quote

"I can point to the moment when I decided for certain this record had to be written. I hung between realms, seeing into Shadesmar—the realm of the spren—and beyond."

The more invested a person the longer they hang.

Quote

"I thought that I was surely dead. Certainly, some who saw further than I did thought I had fallen."

A certain someone has previously been quoted as saying a certain other someone sees the future more clearly than he.

Quote

"I did not die. I experienced something worse."

He became less, so much less.

Quote

"That moment notwithstanding, I can honestly say this book has been brewing in me since my youth. The sum of my experiences has pointed at this moment. This decision. Perhaps my heresy stretches back to those days in my childhood, where these ideas began. I ask not that you forgive me. Nor that you even understand. I ask only that you read or listen to these words. In this record, I hold nothing back. I will try not to shy away from difficult topics, or paint myself in a dishonestly heroic light. I will express only direct, even brutal, truth. You must know what I have done, and what those actions cost me."

Lucidity and regret after a long period of delusion.

Quote

"For in this comes the lesson. It is not a lesson I claim to be able to teach. Experience herself is the great teacher, and you must seek her directly. You cannot have a spice described to you, but must taste it for yourself. However, with a dangerous spice, you can be warned to taste lightly. I would that your lesson may not be as painful as my own."

Warning that investiture is more than just power. It is corrupting intent as well.

Quote

"I am no storyteller, to entertain you with whimsical yarns. I am no philosopher, to intrigue you with piercing questions. I am no poet, to delight you with clever allusions. I have no doubt that you are smarter than I am. I can only relate what happened, what I have done, and then let you draw conclusions. I will confess my murders before you. Most painfully, I have killed someone who loved me dearly."

His power stripped bare, he can no longer protect the one he loves. It's a metaphor, he hasn't actually killed her, he's just indirectly responsible for her yet unrealised death.

Quote

"I will confess my heresy. I do not back down from the things I have said, regardless of what the ardents demand."

This is an allusion to the ardents demands not being consistent with the things he has said, not the ardents demanding of him.

Quote

"Finally, I will confess my humanity. I have been named a monster, and do not deny those claims. I am the monster that I fear we all can become. So sit back. Read, or listen, to someone who has passed between realms. Listen to the words of a fool."

Whatever the secret was that broke the knights radiant is what he refers to here. Something so monstrous every knight radiant except the one chapter that holds that what is directed of them is more important than what is right abandoned their oaths.

The oathbringer was Honor. He was the origin (bringer) of the oathpact. The author of the book is Tanavast, the missing vessel of Honor stripped of Honors power.

FYI I haven't checked a single WOB to evidence this theory, I just thought it was fun to creatively interpret the epigraphs this way. Feel free to immediately debunk it.

[lastofus]

19 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

People have primarily been using that line to imply that the author is Vorin, which is not the same thing as saying the book is written for a Vorin audience.

It's like saying a book where they spell color as "colour" means that the author is automatically British, where it could just as easily be a Chinese fellow who wanted to publish in Britain.

The way most people see it, it's gotta be a Vorin figure. The way I worded the light-bulb moment, even Szeth or the Aziri Prime could theoretically have written it.

I see what you mean now, sorry that I didn't understand it at first. Still, it doesn't make any sense, the diversity isn't that much. We haven't even seen authorship from men in "modern ages" anywhere in Roshar (Some man who isn't from Vorin culture). OK STORM I GOT A STRANGE IDEA NOW.

• [my-light-bulb moment] What happened to previous Radiants? What happens to their spren when Radiants themselves die (either in battle or old age)? Do we know any Radiant who died of old age? IF their spren dies with them or returns to the same state (not a weapon I mean) does that mean that the original owner of Oathbringer betrayed his/her oath? Does that mean HE/SHE(probably) wrote the book about the shardblade before dying?
  • Some Radiants will feel threatened and others liberated. (Probably a in-fighting between them?)
  • The author is a godless heretic, he betrayed their religion, Tranquiline Halls etc... 
  • People thought the author had fallen (like fallen angels).
  • What decision? To kill the spren, to leave its body behind.
  • We have seen how good(?) the radiants are, not it's in reverse. Maybe being a Radiant is both a curse and a boon, like what the Nightwatcher offers.
  • " your lesson may not be as painful as my own.", New Radiants beware...
  • No storyteller, no philosopher, no poet... it's the opposite of the Way of Kings. Nohadon was all and more than that.
  • The author killed someone close to him/her, do we have anything closer than a spren to one's self in Roshar?
  • "Finally, I will confess my humanity. I have been named a monster, and do not deny those claims. I am the monster that I fear we all can become."
    • Monster that betrayed mankind
    • a monster that others can the new Radiants can become
• EDIT: So a WoB says that Radiants can die (still nothing from old age but we can assume it's true), and it doesn't effect the spren in a terrible way (becoming sword maybe). They probably lose their conscience or something like that, so:
  • The original owner of Oathbringer definitely betrayed their oath. Could it be that the spren/sword was named before dying?
  • I think in this case, Sunmaker wasn't the first one to name it and only found and bonded the legendary blade.

 

2 hours ago, aemetha said:

Feel free to immediately debunk it.

I really want to take you on that offer, but don't have the time right now. I should be a good discussion.

Edited November 7, 2017 by lastofus