Toaster Retribution he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 When I recently looked at Pais Coppermind page, I saw her being described as a "Vorin zealot". This got me thinking, because we know of a bunch of other zealots, namely the Sons of Honor. So, I am going to propose that Pai was one of their associates. Pais role in the story was to kick of the riots in Kholinar, which she does by protesting against Aesudans mistreatment of the people. This gets her executed, and leads to the riots. We dont know the plans of the Sons of Honor, nor do we know the size or manpower of their organization, but I speculate that Pai knew that she would be executed, and sacrificed herself for a Sons of Honor-plan to take control over Kholinar. The chaos might allow them to assume leadership over the city, which might benefit them in some way. Do you guys think that I am on to something, or was Pai just a random ardent without ties to anyone important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 The Sons of Honor haven't been seen to have a large network of agents (or any secret agents at all). Contrast that with the Ghostbloods, who already had agents (like Kabsal) in the Ardentia. Pai's motives seem to align very well with the Diagrammists; Taravangian doesn't want Alethkar united under Dalinar, so maybe he or another follower of the Diagram is acting against the Queen. I would suggest either of those societies before the Sons of Honor, although I don't think it would be unreasonable for Pai to be genuine, that Aeusudan is the real reason for the uprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crucible of Shards he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) When I read the interlude, Pai struck me as genuinely shocked by the extent of the corruption and depravity of not just the queen, but particularly the ardents who, in her words, are sycophants. Brandon makes it clear that she was aware of Aesudan having significant moral problems, but Pai seemed genuinely blindsided by the pervasiveness of the corruption in the palace. I always understood her to be genuine and nothing more than an ardent from the Devotary of Denial living out her personal code. Edited July 31, 2017 by Crucible of Shards spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 We know that the Sons of Honor want to return the Vorin church to power. I wouldn't be surprised if they were alright with the way things played out in Kholinar, especially with everything happening now, and the letter that we saw Amaram write at the end of WoR. They, whether Pai was involved or not, will probably seize on the unrest and the re-emergence of Voidbringers to put forward a place of power for the church, as the only ones who retain knowledge of their new enemy. That said, I really like Pai as a character. She didn't hide her feelings once. There wasn't any attempt at deception. Her decision to stay and "do good" was obvious. I want to believe she acted alone. I'm sure other groups will capitalize on the situation either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I would tend to agree with @Crucible of Shards that she felt to me as if she was genuinely disturbed by what she saw. I can well imagine how she was broken to discover that the very thing which to her represented a bastion of morality and which she was dedicating her life to was little more than a lie. I would also posit that as @Calderis pointed out the sons of honor may indeed take advantage of the chaos in Kholinar to take control. That said she comes off as truly feeling that she has to stand up for what is right even at the cost of her own life which makes her a rather admirable and genuine character as opposed to a spy/ double agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormblessDave Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) I agree that Pai must have been genuine, the diagram is sure to take advantage of this, and might reattempt a Jah keved situation. What should be interesting is Dalinar's reaction to Aesudan's rule... Edited July 31, 2017 by StormblessDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 It will certainly throw gasoline on the fires which are sweeping across Alethkar and make dalinar's job more difficult if that fact becomes known to the other nations. though taravangian would love for that to get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostlander Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I agree that Pai seemed genuine. To play devil's advocate for a minute, the other ardent who was showing her around seemed to be conveniently fitting her into ardent stereotypes, such as taking a new, plain name. He also was engaging in a lot of wishful thinking and did not seem to be the most reliable narrator. Also, if I'm not mistaken, we don't actually know a whole lot about the Sons of Honor. We know that for at least some of them, bringing a desolation to return the Vorin church to power is a goal. And there is the mysterious Restares, who may run a more organized group than we think right now. But absolutely this is the sort of chaos that various factions will use either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 @Frostlander every also have this http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1166#2 Quote QUESTION Another interesting thing I heard was when he was explaining a little about the secret organizations to a young lady who was a fairly new fan. BRANDON SANDERSON I didn’t hear the exact question, but Brandon spoke with certainty when he said that Amaram and Gavilar were Sons of Honor. I had taken Gavilar’s involvement with a grain of salt to this point. He also said that we know the most about their purpose–to return the Voidbringers as a means of making the Heralds return–and they they were the “most wrong.” He said that we can pretty much infer the purposes of the diagram group through the epigraphs and text. He said we basically don’t know anything about the Ghostbloods’ purposes. (which matches what Mraize told Shallan. I am very excited to find out more about them and if they know Hoid) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking he/him Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 The chaos is certainly good for the ghostbloods as they feed off of that as does the diagram we shall see if the son's of honor has what it takes to make use of the chaos out of Kholinar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everstorm Entropy he/him Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 On July 31, 2017 at 8:57 AM, Crucible of Shards said: When I read the interlude, Pai struck me as genuinely shocked by the extent of the corruption and depravity of not just the queen, but particularly the ardents who, in her words, are sycophants. Brandon makes it clear that she was aware of Aesudan having significant moral problems, but Pai seemed genuinely blindsided by the pervasiveness of the corruption in the palace. I always understood her to be genuine and nothing more than an ardent from the Devotary of Denial living out her personal code. This is exactly how I read it as well. Pai felt like an example of how an Ardent should act in the face of a corrupt government and uncaring faith. She seemed pious and devoted; I didn't sense any ulterior motive in her attitude, just pure disbelief at how negligent Aesudan and the other Ardents were of the Vorin church and their own people. Her decision to write glyphs of the Ten Fools relating each of them to Queen Aesudon was akin to Martin Luther nailing the 95 Theses to the church doors. She intended to make a statement on what she thought was right and was (likely) prepared to die for it. I highly doubt that the Ghostbloods or the Diagrammists were involved in any capacity. Of course, we could be wrong, but that's not what I got from the chapter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking he/him Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 She may well be Zealous, but I don't believe that that Zealotry is anything except the anger of a cleric raging against a system that is abusing and twisting religion to fit its own purposes. @Everstorm Entropy I think that your analogy of Martin Luther is spot on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts