gbazz4 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 "But as for the Bondsmiths, they had members only three, which number was not uncommon for them; nor did they seek to increase this by great bounds, for during the times of Madasa, only one of their order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones. Their spren was understood to be specific, and to persuade them to grow to the magnitude of the other orders was seen as seditious. —From Words of Radiance, chapter 16, page 14" I know there has been discussions on the forums about bondsmiths, how there are only 3, and that they are tied to specific spren (which is why there are typically only 3), and which spren those might be, so maybe this has been discussed and i just failed at searching out the proper thread but i thought i would ask if anyone knows the answer to a question. 10 is an extremely significant (maybe even considered Holy) number on Roshar. We have 10 Heralds, 10 Surges, 10 orders of KR, 10 essences, 10 gemstones, 10 months in a year, 10 Silver Kingdoms, 10 Alethi Princedoms, 10 Highprinces, 10 warcamps, 10 heartbeats for a shardblade to form. Given this focus on the number 10, does anyone know why Brandon would simply settle on 3 bondsmiths as the typical number of bondsmiths? Why not choose 10? If they are tied to specific spren why couldn't there be 10 spren? Just curious if anyone has discussed this before? It seems like it would fit properly to have devised the order to have 10 be the typical number of members given the emphasis on 10 in Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 My guess is that it has to do with there being three Shards. Honor is connected to the Stormfather, Cultivation to the Nightwatcher (yes, I believe she can be bonded). The only weak point is how Odium fits into this, but my guess is still that it has to do with the number of Shards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 My personal (and baseless) belief here is that there are 10 Bondsmith spren. The Nahel bond isn't something that a person can just act accordingly and a spren must comply. The Spren has to choose to bond you. So I think the historical limits on the number of Bondsmiths is because there are only three spren willing to bond that can make a bondsmith. You're right. The number 10 is significant, and I think that there are 10 Bondsmith spren. The magnitude and power of those spren though, makes me believe they would not generally be interested in bonding themselves to a mortal. So there's my speculative head canon. The number three is a limit of intent on behalf of the Spren, not number of spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 Honor used to be alive to, as Nale put it, regulate the Oaths. I don't think there are ten Bondsmith spren but if there are, that would be the reason there was a limit before I think - Honor regulating the Oaths rather than the spren. (My new ridiculous theory gives a possible realmatic reason why Honor would regulate the Oaths, I won't cite it here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted July 21, 2017 Report Share Posted July 21, 2017 I think one is for Honor (Stormfather), one is for Cultivation (Nightwatcher), one is for both (or some old Adonalsium spren). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted July 21, 2017 Report Share Posted July 21, 2017 @gbazz4 your proposal of 10 bondsmiths is seditious and must be stomped out before its seeds can bear fruit. Quote Ketek of the Bondsmiths- Three Bondsmiths, be always there - always be, Bondsmiths three. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Thunder Posted July 21, 2017 Report Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, hwiles said: @gbazz4 your proposal of 10 bondsmiths is seditious and must be stomped out before its seeds can bear fruit. Hah! Also, if there are only ever 3 Bondsmiths, and from WoB we know that he considers the heralds to be part of their order, as order head, would that mean that you would have; Stormfather Bondsmith Nightwatcher Bondsmith Herald Bondsmith Perhaps that makes 3? Or maybe there's another kick chull god spren we are yet to meet that the 3rd Bondsmith will bond with.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted July 21, 2017 Report Share Posted July 21, 2017 Since the bondsmiths are of Honor, I think it's more likely that there are simply three powerful spren of Honor that the Bondsmiths bonded to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What's a Seawolf? Posted July 21, 2017 Report Share Posted July 21, 2017 22 hours ago, gbazz4 said: "But as for the Bondsmiths, they had members only three, which number was not uncommon for them; nor did they seek to increase this by great bounds, for during the times of Madasa, only one of their order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones. Their spren was understood to be specific, and to persuade them to grow to the magnitude of the other orders was seen as seditious. —From Words of Radiance, chapter 16, page 14" I just got to this part on my reread. The quote seems to imply (three not being uncommon for them) that other numbers were possible. And if they 'didn't seek to increase it by great bounds', then it was possible to have more than 3 Bondsmiths. I guess the question is why only three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Thunder Posted July 21, 2017 Report Share Posted July 21, 2017 47 minutes ago, What's a Seawolf? said: I just got to this part on my reread. The quote seems to imply (three not being uncommon for them) that other numbers were possible. And if they 'didn't seek to increase it by great bounds', then it was possible to have more than 3 Bondsmiths. I guess the question is why only three. My complete guess would be as they seem to be leaders/kings, or strategic masterminds etc. - too many chefs spoil the stew. Also, they probably didn't want the general populous, or themselves to believe that they were better or higher than others by having many within this highly appointed order. I have no proof of this, just my theory/gut feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Wax Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 On 21/07/2017 at 6:37 AM, Toaster Retribution said: My guess is that it has to do with there being three Shards. Honor is connected to the Stormfather, Cultivation to the Nightwatcher (yes, I believe she can be bonded). The only weak point is how Odium fits into this, but my guess is still that it has to do with the number of Shards. I am beginning to wonder if the third is a 50-50 of Honor and Cultivation. 1 for Honor 1 for Cultivation 1 for Honor-Cultivation 50-50 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azul Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 5 hours ago, axcellence said: I am beginning to wonder if the third is a 50-50 of Honor and Cultivation. 1 for Honor 1 for Cultivation 1 for Honor-Cultivation 50-50 This has always been my theory as well. Something I always found very interesting was in one of Dalinar's first flashbacks. The wife, Taffa, at one point exclaims "Three Gods, Heb". At first it seems most likely this could be a reference to Honor, Cultivation and Odium, but if it did I would find that very odd, as it feels many exclamations such as this tend to use more benevolent deities. I have felt perhaps this is reference to 3 powerful spren, maybe even the same spren tied to bondsmith. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Azul said: This has always been my theory as well. Something I always found very interesting was in one of Dalinar's first flashbacks. The wife, Taffa, at one point exclaims "Three Gods, Heb". At first it seems most likely this could be a reference to Honor, Cultivation and Odium, but if it did I would find that very odd, as it feels many exclamations such as this tend to use more benevolent deities. I have felt perhaps this is reference to 3 powerful spren, maybe even the same spren tied to bondsmith. I always found that exclamation odd, but never made that connection. I like it. Have an upvote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 13 hours ago, What's a Seawolf? said: I just got to this part on my reread. The quote seems to imply (three not being uncommon for them) that other numbers were possible. And if they 'didn't seek to increase it by great bounds', then it was possible to have more than 3 Bondsmiths. I guess the question is why only three. Maybe a super-spren like the Stormfather is capable of bonding multiple Radiants at once, but it's dangerous for them? The Stormfather survived the Recreance despite being bonded, right? Maybe he wouldn't have if there had been more Bondsmiths, and then Roshar's ecology and Investiture cycle would have been thoroughly wrecked. On 7/21/2017 at 2:46 AM, Velvet Thunder said: Hah! Also, if there are only ever 3 Bondsmiths, and from WoB we know that he considers the heralds to be part of their order, as order head, would that mean that you would have; Stormfather Bondsmith Nightwatcher Bondsmith Herald Bondsmith Perhaps that makes 3? I never thought of that... it makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 Quote Q: The pocket companion states that there are three spren that can bond a person to make them into a bondsmith, the Stormfather being one of them. As far as I recall the books implied that the number was low, and implied heavily that it was around that number in an epigraph, but didn't actually have a straight confirmation. So, should I take that as canon? A: Yes, you can take that as canon. They came to me for that information. source Three Bondsmith spren, three Bondsmiths. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes three possible Radiants of one Order mean three possible spren of that order. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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