Sel Timeline

[Helwar]

I don't have Elantris on myself now to check and was discussing with a friend about the Reod.

I'm quite sure that the passing of Odium through Sel was too long ago, way before the time of Raoden, spintering Devotion and Dominion (people say D&D... I can only think of Dungeons and Dragons with those letters), and creating the AonDor, thus, in a way, creating elantrians that can use it. This is right, isn't it?

What caused the earthquake, the Reod? My friend defends that it was Odium's passing that caused the Reod, the earthquake, while splintering the other Shards. In her opinion, Elantrians existed before the splintering, he thinks they would not be randomly created just because a sudden surplus of energy in the Cognitive... And it would be "too bad" that an earthquake just randomly happens to break the focus point of the magic in that world.

She kinda has a point... 

What is exactly the timeline here?

• Devotion and Dominion get to Sel, Odium breaks them, Elantrians appear to make use of the AonDor, Raod randomly happens
• Devotion and Dominion get to Sel, Create Elantrians, Odium breaks both the shards and the land, causing the raod.
• Third option?

[Calderis]

As far as I know, we don't know what caused the earthquake, but it definitely was not Odium. The Dor as we know it exists because of the splinterings of D&D and their power being forced into the Cognitive Realm.

The Dor as we know it was created by that process and is why the magics on Sel are location dependant and all nonSelish magics aren't. 

This means that AonDor, Dahkor, etc. All formed after the Dor was created.

Odium has been trapped on Roshar for at minimum 4500 years from the current point in SA, as we know he was there prior to the last desolation. 

I'm not sure of the exact time line, but Elantris has been said to happen hundreds and not thousands of years before the mistborn trilogy. Wax and Wayne happens roughly between the first half and last half of SA, so Odium splintered D&D and left at least a couple thousand years before the events we see, in Elantris. 

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Calderis

[The One Who Connects]

46 minutes ago, Helwar said:

What caused the earthquake, the Reod? [...] What is exactly the timeline here?

The Reod was only 10 years prior to the book taking place. Odium was long gone when that happened. As for the cause, we've no solid idea yet. You can search around and find all manner of ideas and theories.

---

If you want a much more detailed history of Sel and surrounding events...

On 2/10/2017 at 3:02 PM, The One Who Connects said:

The Shattering was 6,000 years before Prelude in Stormlight. [2]

[...]

Mistborn Era 1 takes place around 300 years before Stormlight(because Alloy happens around that time)
Elantris takes place "far earlier. It's quite... It's not thousands" compared to Hero of Ages. I'll use 1,400 years because it'll be convenient in a minute.
That puts Elantris a few centuries before Rashek's Ascension. The physical city of Elantris was built "hundreds of years if not over a thousand years" before the book takes place. If we put that at another 1,400 year gap, that puts the total time-gap at 3,100 years before Stormlight Archive. (Around the same time Odium got trapped, see? Convenient)

Only Elantrians can draw Aons, and since the city is built as an Aon, the first Elantrians predate it. This is important, because we are assuming that the Aons being based on the land happened after D&D got splintered and shoved into the cognitive (where location and space matter) The early Elantrians learned the language by trial and error, which should preclude the possibility of divine shardic assistance.

We have a 2,800 year timeframe left. Subtract from this however long of a time you think it would take for the early Elantrians to map out the Aons and build the city of Elantris. Take away an additional span of time after D&D were splintered for Elantrians to start appearing (maybe 200-300 years?)

•                   0 AS (After Shattering):                      The Shattering Happens
•               Date Completely Unknown:                D&D go to Sel at some unspecified time after the Shattering
•               Date Completely Unknown:                Odium visited Sel and killed D&D, creating the Dor
•        Roughly 2,800 AS, Roughly 6000 BE:        Odium gets trapped on Roshar
•               6,000 AS, Roughly 3,000 BE:               Stormlight Prelude, Final Desolation
•         Unknown AS, 10 BE(Before Elantris):        The Reod
•           Unknown AS, 0 AE(After Elantris):            Elantris(Book) happens
• B/w 1,000 and 1,400 AE, 0 AH(After Harmony):  Ascension of Harmony
•               Roughly 10,500 AS, 300 AH:                Stormlight Archive(Books) happen

[Helwar]

That's what I thought. Still, the creation of such a structured magic system (Aons are the most flexible magic system we know of, but they have a strong structure), happening without divine intervention is weird, to say the least. And that random earthquake just in the right place is super fishy...

But alas, we just don't know enough.

Thanks for the answer @Calderis

[Calderis]

@Helwar well, forgery is also extremely flexible and only really limited comparatively because of the way it must be applied to an object/person. 

I suspect the same is true for both ChayShan and Dahkor. 

The focus of Sel's magic is forms. So with AonDor it's the Aons themselves, Forgery the stamps, Dahkor seems to be the Fjordell runes grown into the bones. With ChayShan the Kata like martial Arts forms. 

Investiture seeks sentience, and Odium shoved the Shards into the Cognitive Realm so that the Shards couldn't be picked up or attain sentience of their own. But there was still some guidance to the magic system. The forms are based on the land they formed around, and the AU essay Khriss wrote about Sel implies that the land itself is becoming sentient.

So there may not be an actual Shard on Sel, but the land itself is taking on the role in the magic. So it's not completely unguided. 

[Helwar]

That was WAY more than I expected, thanks!

[The One Who Connects]

Just now, Helwar said:

That was WAY more than I expected, thanks!

I'd had to reference that post of mine more than once, and timeline issues are a source of major annoyance on here(evidence: this thread ) so I want to get it out of the way once and for all. You'll find countless others on here that are equally overboard about other subjects.

[+Extesian]

I'll just add this, from Arcanum Unbounded, to the excellent answers, on how early D&D were splintered. 

Quote

I believe that early on, the Shards took an unconcerned approach to humankind—and society was shaped by the slow, steady discovery of the powers that permeated the landscape. This is difficult to determine for certain now, however, as at some point in the distant past, both Devotion and Dominion were destroyed. Their Investiture—their power—was Splintered, their minds ripped away, their souls sent into the Beyond. I am uncertain whether their power was left to ravage the world untamed for a time, or was immediately contained. This all happened during the days of human prehistory on Sel.

So it was during the days of human prehistory, that's pretty old given the advanced state of civilization at the time of Elantris. 

[Yata]

3 hours ago, Helwar said:

 And that random earthquake just in the right place is super fishy...

The earthquake or Better the chasm, would cause that effect on Selish's magic regardless where happen.

If that happen into MaiPon, the Forgery will stop to work.

If that happened into Fjordel the Drakhor Will stop to work...and as the Monk are body integrated with their magic. I think this could cause something similar to the Reod.

PS: Always from your quoted post, no magic system is designed by Shards. They naturally come to be from the Shards' Investiture interacting with the Planet where they Invest into

[ParadoxicalZen]

Elantris was created long before the Arelene people arrived on the shores, as per the History of Aons WoBs...however given how old this information is, it is possible Brandon may have tweaked this. Its on my list of questions for further info