What do the links between Orders mean?

[Who Sharded?]

http://coppermind.net/w/images/TWoK_Front_Endsheet.jpg

 

I'm sure this has been discussed but I didn't find anything.  We know that each of the large circles represents an Order of Knights Radiant, and the small circles represent surges.  The links between Orders and surges show which 2 surges the Knights of those Order can access.

 

But each Order is also linked to three other Orders.  Does anyone know why?

[Shardlet]

In a word, nope.  There have been some ideas tossed around, but one guess is as good as another at this point.

[Swimmingly]

Anyone care to summarise the leading theories? I haven't been involved in this before.

[Bloodfalcon]

I'll give you a tiny rundown of the theories I have heard.

 

-The lines represent Orders whose abilities can mesh/enhance one another.

 

-The lines connect Each Order to an opposite Order in terms of thier spren's identification to the Physical/Cognitive/Spiritual realms, Honor/Cultivation, or other groupings.

 

-The lines connect Orders that share things - obviously the Surges, but then another ability or trait with those across the way.

 

-The lines represent relationships between the Heralds

 

-The lines represent a physical puzzle, like a blacksmith's puzzle sort of thing. 

 

It's kind of a mess and that should show there is really no understanding right now. I'll look around for others. There was discussion in one of my topics somewhere....

[Scriptorian]

Could it have something to do with the oh-so-elusive foci for surgebinding? Each order shares a focus with three others?

[Awesomeness Summoned]

There's also the fact that four of the orders (Stonewards, Windrunners, Lightweavers, and Edgedancers) have four of those line connections instead of three.

 

I think the lines represent relationships within the orders. For the most part, short lines are orders that work well together and long lines are orders that are often at odds with each other (as evidenced by the bad blood between Cryptics and honorspren).

[Moogle]

It would be odd for the lines to relate to the relationships between Surgebinders. The Voidbinding chart has the exact same lines. I like this idea of the lines relating to body focuses, though it doesn't really work. 1-6 are connected, 6-9 are connected, but 1-9 are not connected.

 

My question is: why are the Surges connected? Do they relate to each other in some way?

Edited February 5, 2014 by Moogle

[Bloodfalcon]

It would be odd for the lines to relate to the relationships between Surgebinders. The Voidbinding chart has the exact same lines. I like this idea of the lines relating to body focuses, though it doesn't really work. 1-6 are connected, 6-9 are connected, but 1-9 are not connected.

 

My question is: why are the Surges connected? Do they relate to each other in some way?

I thought that was the one that we had figured out. The surges link to both the Orders that can utilize them and the Surges that create an effect when they are paired. Like if one of the three lashings, or something we have not seen, uses both Gravity and Pressure.

[Moogle]

I thought that was the one that we had figured out. The surges link to both the Orders that can utilize them and the Surges that create an effect when they are paired. Like if one of the three lashings, or something we have not seen, uses both Gravity and Pressure.

 

The lines hooking up the Surges to the Orders make sense, but not the Surge to Surge lines.

 

The Three Lashes use independent Surges, so far as I can tell. Two of them relate to Gravity (Basic/Reverse), one to Pressure (Full). They don't seem to work together. The Surges being paired together with lines suggests that the ordering is not arbitrary in any way and that they do pair together nicely. How do you use Gravity and Pressure together?

[Bloodfalcon]

The lines hooking up the Surges to the Orders make sense, but not the Surge to Surge lines.

 

The Three Lashes use independent Surges, so far as I can tell. Two of them relate to Gravity (Basic/Reverse), one to Pressure (Full). They don't seem to work together. The Surges being paired together with lines suggests that the ordering is not arbitrary in any way and that they do pair together nicely. How do you use Gravity and Pressure together?

It's the perfect recipe for creating highstorms! Mwahaha!

[Who Sharded?]

The lines hooking up the Surges to the Orders make sense, but not the Surge to Surge lines.

 

The Three Lashes use independent Surges, so far as I can tell. Two of them relate to Gravity (Basic/Reverse), one to Pressure (Full). They don't seem to work together. The Surges being paired together with lines suggests that the ordering is not arbitrary in any way and that they do pair together nicely. How do you use Gravity and Pressure together?

 

I would guess that a Reverse Lashing is somehow a combination of the two.  Maybe if you use the Gravity surge by itself you affect your own gravitational orientation.  But if you combine it with Pressure, you can use it to affect objects.  With Pressure itself you can only affect objects and not yourself, I believe. 

 

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense when explained that way, but I like to think that each individual Surge gives you one ability, and each adjacent combination creates another one.  It helps the chart make sense to me.

 

And by this logic a Skybreaker would be able to do a Basic Lashing but neither of the other two that Windrunners do.  Hopefully WoR provides more info.

Edited February 5, 2014 by End of Disc One

[hoser]

{Wild Speculation}

Lines all represent abilities:

• surges to orders represent abilities provided to the order by the surge: pressure gives full lashing, gravity gives basic and reverse lashing, transformation gives Soulcasting, etc. .
• surge to surge gives abilities provided to orders accessing both surges (the special abilities provided to each surge): stormriding for windrunners, ranged transformation for elsecallers, etc. .
• order to order represent abilities that the two orders have working together (no examples here because we haven't seen it): if an elsecaller and a lightweaver could scry a remote location if they worked together, etc. 

{/Wild Speculation}

Edited February 5, 2014 by hoser

[marianmi]

Here's a thread: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5613-the-kr-orders-table-and-bonding-spren/

[AerionBFII]

Just to clarify each order has two surges and a third is made by combining the two??

For example; The Order Of Windrunners - Basic Lashing - Full Lashing - Reverse Lashing??

[marianmi]

Just to clarify each order has two surges and a third is made by combining the two??

For example; The Order Of Windrunners - Basic Lashing - Full Lashing - Reverse Lashing??

 

Lashings are not surges.

Order of windrunners: gravity surge, atm pressure surge.

Using gravity & pressure => lashings, flying, etc...

[Moogle]

Just to clarify each order has two surges and a third is made by combining the two??

For example; The Order Of Windrunners - Basic Lashing - Full Lashing - Reverse Lashing??

 

Surges are fundamental parts of reality - Transformation, Gravity, Pressure, Friction - that can be used to manipulate the world. Windrunners use Gravity to do Basic/Reverse Lashings and Pressure to do Full Lashings.

 

More on topic: The new decal here: http://store.brandonsanderson.com/stormlight-archive-symbol-decal-new/ shows the lines linking the various Orders being made by Honorblades. I wonder if that means something?

[AerionBFII]

So a Windrunner is capable of more than the three main techniques??

Depending on how they use them? 

[Moogle]

So a Windrunner is capable of more than the three main techniques??

Depending on how they use them? 

 

A lot of people think that Kaladin is capable of 'pressure waves', like he used to push back the Parshendi after speaking the Second Ideal. That would be a second use of the Pressure Surge. We don't know for sure, but it's highly likely he can do more than just the Three Lashings.