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Surgebinding without stormlight?


Zmaray

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Brandon has said that various 'hacks' are possible but they would require specialized knowledge. So yes, it's probably something that could be done somehow, but we have no idea how right now. We know that some systems are easier to get Investiture from; it's why a certain someone is on Roshar for example. I think Brandon also called Taldain out as a planet where Investiture is relatively easy to come by but I can't find it right now.

Edited by Weltall
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Basically what Weltall just said.

But because I feel like idly speculating: what if there was a godmetal (say, Honor's, Cultivation's, or the alloy of both) that infused you with stormlight when burnt allomantically? Said stormlight could then be used to fuel surgebinding. Technically this wouldn't be using allomancy to fuel it directly and still involves stormlight, but it would be a lot easier than what you would probably otherwise have to do to hack the systems. 

Just an idea. 

Edit: this also requires you to be both a surgebinder and a full Mistborn. If you've pulled that off, more hacks probably aren't that big a deal. When in doubt: Henalurgy. 

Edited by Scriptorian
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33 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Brandon has said that various 'hacks' are possible but they would require specialized knowledge. So yes, it's probably something that could be done somehow, but we have no idea how right now. We know that some systems are easier to get Investiture from; it's why a certain someone is on Roshar for example. I think Brandon also called Taldain out as a planet where Investiture is relatively easy to come by but I can't find it right now.

Other than Brandon saying that Dayside is more invested than Darkside I don't think I've seen a WoB regarding the Invesiture of Taldain, I did find this one though regarding Investiture uses in other magic systems:
 

Quote

 

INTERVIEW: Jan 24th, 2015

QUESTION

How difficult is it to transfer Investiture from one magic system to another, is it even possible?

BRANDON SANDERSON

How difficult is it to transfer Investiture from one magic system to another. It is possible. It is more difficult with different magic systems. Breaths are easy. Stormlight is fairly easy. Others from there on get pretty hard.

TAGS

 

 
Edited by The Sovereign
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Stormlight is fairly easy.

So I guess this means the reverse is actually easier, and it's not that hard to picture. Instead of drawing on their metals, the allomancer just draws on the "raging storm" inside them. 

Again, assuming you've somehow hacked to get both systems in the first place. 

Edit: actually it's more likely that stormlight would replace the investiture that flows from Preservation which powers allomancy, rather than replacing the metals themselves. I don't actually know what that would look like. 

Edited by Scriptorian
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3 hours ago, Gudbrand said:

Could you somehow use Allomancy to fuel Surgebinding?

We know the reverse is doable, so I imagine that this is also possible.

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[–]youshallannotpass 6 points 1 year ago 

Hi Brandon I love your books particularly war breaker and words of radiance. You are very talented! Two questions: 1.Can Stormlight be used to fuel Allomancy like the mist in the Mistborn trilogy? 2. Will there be a metal called harmonium in the Mistborn world?

Thanks again
 

[–]mistborn[S] 10 points 1 year ago 

  1. This is possible.

 

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I'd imagine that "fueling surgebinding with Allomancy" would require a skilled spren bonded to an Allomancer. We've seen that bonded spren have been particularly attuned to, at least, the mental state of their radiants. Maybe if that radiant used Allomancy, the spren would detect Preservation's power and be potentially able to hijack it for surgebinding... or at least guide their radiant on using it to surgebind.

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2 hours ago, The Sovereign said:

Other than Brandon saying that Dayside is more invested than Darkside I don't think I've seen a WoB regarding the Invesiture of Taldain, I did find this one though regarding Investiture uses in other magic systems:

This is gonna bug me until I find whatever it is I saw that put the idea in my head, I just know it... Or until I can't find it and decide I must have imagined it. To the WoBs!

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22 minutes ago, Weltall said:

This is gonna bug me until I find whatever it is I saw that put the idea in my head, I just know it... Or until I can't find it and decide I must have imagined it. To the WoBs!

You may be right Weltall but I definitely haven't seen one. This is the main one i know. 

Quote

QUESTION

Can you tell us something about the magic on the Dark Side (presumably referring to Taldain)?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Not nearly as explosive and obvious as the magic on Dayside. Most of the Investiture you’ll find is on Dayside, but there is some stuff going on over there

But then there is this from reddit in 2015

Quote

Q: How significant will the White Sand be to the cosmere? Any hints on the Shard that resides there?
 
A: Moderately. (Its magic has some cool ramifications for off world use, and several characters factor prominently into the Cosmere.) 
 
Q: Is there more than one magic system in white sand?
 
A: Only one in the current outline. 
 
Q: Does the one magic have more than one variation? Because I got the impression that there was something going on on the Darkside? Though I guess the Sky Colors (I think that's what they're called, I read the draft you send out early 2014 so my recollection is a little fuzzy) don't have to be related to magic. Or you could have written them out if they were…
 
A: In intended the colors on Darkside to be more a matter of the ecology than the magic--though, on that planet, magic and ecology are very closely tied together. (Well, I guess most of the magics are.)
 

That's using every WoB source I know of. If you can find something more though I'll be very glad, I'm amazed at how little has been asked about it. I guess coz only a few of us had access to the prose version until recently. 

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From what I can gather, each shard's investiture has a distinct flavor/wavelength/uniqueness to it that makes it more or less impossible to convert one shard's investiture into a different one on any meaningful time scale (obviously, Harmony is slowly becoming more adjoined into a more singular type over an immense period of time and millions of people's perception - although Sazed still talks about managing the difficulty of his dual nature).

So for example you can't meaningfully convert even Stormlight into Breath. "Now hold on!" You say, "What about our Returned friend?" That brings me to my second point, and back to the thread's title: I think it is relatively easier to mimic the effects of a particular investiture as it travels through/is shaped by the magic user's spirit web. In other words, as long as you find a way to internalize and manipulate the given 'alien' investiture, and assuming you can connect (or 'key') yourself to the desired investiture's source planet (because I believe each planet has an important role in how shardic investiture manifests), you should be able to pump any kind of power through your spirit web and achieve the desired affect.

I figure it might be harder in some cases because either obtaining, internalizing, manipulating, or connecting is more difficult in some magic systems than in others. As a brief example, I cite the IRE device. The device contained the power, making it obtainable. The power had gaseous form, like Stormlight, Mist, or Breath, which made it easy to internalize. Kelsier was already passingly familiar with magic use and connections, which helped him be capable of manipulating the internalized power (although in the case of the IRE device I suspect it was more of a "magic use for dummies" situation, where it didn't really need any instruction or input. And Kelsier was connected to Scadrial, and thereby to Preservation. So the device, while not using native Scadrian investiture, was capable of interacting with Scadrial's magic.

Edit: For allomancy to fuel surgebinding, you would need to be capable of obtaining a metal/mist, internalizing (eating and burning/breathing), manipulating it (forcing it through channels in your spirit web that are specific to surgebinding instead of allomancy - you would likely need to be rebroken and patched by a Nahel bond, which could be the limiting factor, and sufficiently connected to Roshar for the planetary input to vitalize your effect. That last part is purposefully hazy, because it's hazy for me too haha, probably someone else can elaborate on that better.

edit 2: Furthermore, I would suggest that Breath is so 'easy' to exchange because everybody's body innately knows what to do with it. Anyone can become an awakener. You dont need to have some special sDNA pathway that you break yourself into like allomancy. Similarly, I personally think having the passive benefits of Stormlight is relatively easy for the same reason: It's automatically manipulated by pretty much anyone... It just requires some prerequisites to internalize by yourself. That's probably why Vasher can use Stormlight to keep himself alive. Maybe he has some fabrial or soulcaster to help internalize Stormlight, and his body knows what to do with it, but he cant use it for Awakening yet because he hasn't figured out how to manipulate it well enough. It would be interesting to know... If Vasher lost his connection to Nalthis, would he still be able to use Stormlight to sustain himself?

Edited by Darkness
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