The Three Parts of Magic

[Sunblesser]

i've thought of something that could make the case for putting nahel-bond/truthspren in the place of spiritual focus/input for the initiation of Shallans Memory ability.

when she draws, and the truthspren show up, she's not seeing them, not really; not consciously. the spren are providing the spiritual input to try to make themselves known. maybe it's the only way the know how to communicate. there's no reason why forming a nahel bond has to follow a set of rules. it could be different for every order, or even every individual. we can already see that syl and the truthspren are wildly different creatures.

anyway, the way the truthspren tie into her Memories is that they are completely faithful recollections of a moment of time; honest. what we thought cameras could do for journalism. then she recreates them in a beautiful fashion, often due to her creative choice of timing. eventually, after a long voyage of doing this with a multitude of people, not to mention flora and fauna, some truthspren couldn't help but take notice (though i think it's possible that the truthspren are originally from her father's broken soulcaster).

this is all part of forming the nahel-bond with a truthspren, imo. syl starts talking to kaladin after he's done a whack of honourable things, leading people and doing his best to protect them. shallan, thanks to her drawing, and her generally creative/honest personality (she even robbed jasnah honestly), has begun to communicate with truthspren, and will soon learn more. i wonder which kind spren jasnah bonded with.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Sunblesser

[Odium's_Shard]

I think that it is because of the truthspren that her recollections are perfect.

Lets say that they are always around, like, they never leave her. She is Nahel-bonded with them, say.

So, whenever she purposefully blinks, she exploits some sort of link with the truthspren (using the eyes, perhaps?) who then compose a completely truthful image of the time and store it away within the Spiritual Realm, or wherever the seat of a spren's power is. Much like a Coppermind.

In fact, this is an uncanny comparison... Sazed states that when he stores something in a Coppermind, then that information disappears from his mind until he recalls it (perfectly). I cannot remember with passing interest whether Shallan can remember the pictures that she takes until she draws them on the page, but I distinctly remember her saying that after she draws it then the image exists nowhere but the paper, and she completely forgets it.

Perhaps this is how the Memory operates? So it would go like this:

Physical>Spiritual>Cognitive

Blink>Nahel bond>Captured in her mind

or

Physical>Cognitive>Spiritual

Blink>Processes Memory>Spren store it through Nahel bond

For the capture of a Memory. For drawing, this perhaps?

Spiritual>Cognitive>Physical

Nahel bond>Recall through the bond>Draw

Feedback please?

[Aminar]

I think that it is because of the truthspren that her recollections are perfect.

Lets say that they are always around, like, they never leave her. She is Nahel-bonded with them, say.

So, whenever she purposefully blinks, she exploits some sort of link with the truthspren (using the eyes, perhaps?) who then compose a completely truthful image of the time and store it away within the Spiritual Realm, or wherever the seat of a spren's power is. Much like a Coppermind.

In fact, this is an uncanny comparison... Sazed states that when he stores something in a Coppermind, then that information disappears from his mind until he recalls it (perfectly). I cannot remember with passing interest whether Shallan can remember the pictures that she takes until she draws them on the page, but I distinctly remember her saying that after she draws it then the image exists nowhere but the paper, and she completely forgets it.

Perhaps this is how the Memory operates? So it would go like this:

Physical>Spiritual>Cognitive

Blink>Nahel bond>Captured in her mind

Makes sense to me.

I like the coppermind comparison.

or

Physical>Cognitive>Spiritual

Blink>Processes Memory>Spren store it through Nahel bond

For the capture of a Memory. For drawing, this perhaps?

Spiritual>Cognitive>Physical

Nahel bond>Recall through the bond>Draw

Feedback please?

I like it, that fits really well, especially the coppermind comparison.

I agree that she's truth bonded like Mal is honorbonded, and that goes a long way towards explaining the physical consequences of her lies. Nausea and the like.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Aminar

[Odium's_Shard]

I like it, that fits really well, especially the coppermind comparison.

I agree that she's truth bonded like Mal is honorbonded, and that goes a long way towards explaining the physical consequences of her lies. Nausea and the like.

She experiences nausea? That, my friend, deserves an 'internet cookie' (an upvote here)!

Do you think this is worth posting as an individual theory (the Memories theory)? With credit to yourself and Sunblesser, of course.

As well, about the nausea thing, could this be a consequence of going against a Splinter's (yes, leap of reason, spren are now Splinters in my mind, at least Nahel spren) Intent? Because if so, I like it! And this may help confirm to Chaos whether Splinters have separate (or at least sub-) Intents! Honor was shattered.. but when? Before the Radiants? If it was after them, this doesn't make sense. It would have to be before Nohadon (is that it? In Dalinar's vision), because he mention the Nahel bond explicitly.

So Kaladin feels bad when he does dishonourable things? Not that he's been doing many of those, well.. ever. This needs backing up...

[Aminar]

I'm certainly cool with having a new theory started.

And I swear I edited away that saying Mal when i typed it. Stupid Tablet. Meant Kal for Kaladin.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Aminar

[Odium's_Shard]

Completely overlooked the Mal>honourbonded. My apologies.

On topic, I will type that up right now.

[nikomis he/him]

In the case of Soulcasters, wouldn't touching their device satisfy the physical part? Don't they have to wear it?

[spacemonkey he/him]

For people using a fabrial, yes. Kabsal mentions that tapping a gem is all that is needed to activate a Soulcasting fabrial. However, it is the specific type of gem used that determines what the end result of the transformation is. Gems are probably the focus for natural Soulcasting as well, as Jasnah needed a garnet (linked with blood on the Soulcasting chart) to cure Shallan when she was poisoned, although the actual activation trigger is obviously something different.

[Windrunner he/him]

It doesn't seem right that it takes certain gemstones to perform different types of Soulcasting if you have natural Radiant powers. Kaladin doesn't have to use a sapphire every time he lashes something. I always thought the gem type only mattered to those who were using fabrials. Is it possible the Jasnah called for a garnet only to keep up the charade that she was using a fabrial instead of natural powers?

[spacemonkey he/him]

Well, Kaladin doesn't need gems, but he doesn't use the same surges as Jasnah. Presumably the Lashings have a different focus. And Jasnah sounded pretty desperate when she was calling for a garnet, which is the same gemstone that Shallan used when she transformed the goblet into blood. I don't think Jasnah would have let Shallan die just to maintain her cover.

[Captain.Kaulu]

Well, Kaladin doesn't need gems, but he doesn't use the same surges as Jasnah. Presumably the Lashings have a different focus. And Jasnah sounded pretty desperate when she was calling for a garnet, which is the same gemstone that Shallan used when she transformed the goblet into blood. I don't think Jasnah would have let Shallan die just to maintain her cover.

Or maybe she just thinks she needs a Garnet like the other Soulcasters, when actually she doesn't ...

... oh wait. This is Jasnah we're talking about here. There's no way she wouldn't have experimented and figured out the limits of her powers!

[spacemonkey he/him]

Also, Jasnah says that Soulcasting fabrials were designed to mimic the natural ability that some of the Knights Radiant possessed. It makes sense that both methods would require gemstones.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Or maybe she just thinks she needs a Garnet like the other Soulcasters, when actually she doesn't ...

... oh wait. This is Jasnah we're talking about here. There's no way she wouldn't have experimented and figured out the limits of her powers!

I think innate Soulcasters don't need a specific gem to transform its element(?), ie a garnet for blood, but having the gem makes it easier. Jasnah has said she isn't very good at soulcasting organics so she would need an aid when soulcasting blood, an organic substance.

[spacemonkey he/him]

Actually Jasnah said that blood was different from an organic substance like jam because it's one of the Essences.

From chapter 72:

"But you said you aren't good with organics," Shallan said. "You turned the strawberry jam into something inedible."

"Blood isn't the same," Jasnah said, waving her hand. "It's one of the Essences.You'll learn this, should I actually decide to teach you Soulcasting. For now, know that the pure form of an Essence is quite easy to make; the eight kinds of blood are easier to create than water, for instance. Creating something as complex as strawberry jam, however- a mush made from a fruit I'd never before tasted or smelled- was well beyond my abilities."

Edited January 18, 2012 by spacemonkey

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Actually Jasnah said that blood was different from an organic substance like jam because it's one of the Essences.

From chapter 72:

Hmm, well I still think it is easier to soulcast an item with the applicable gem and thank you, Essence was the word I was looking for.

[spacemonkey he/him]

It's true that we don't know that specific gemstones are absolutely necessary for Soulcasting, but given we have yet to see Jasnah Soulcast without using a gem aligned with the Essence she wants to transform, I'm operating on the assumption that it is a strict requirement until the books or Brandon state otherwise.

[Windrunner he/him]

She experiences nausea? That, my friend, deserves an 'internet cookie' (an upvote here)!

Do you think this is worth posting as an individual theory (the Memories theory)? With credit to yourself and Sunblesser, of course.

As well, about the nausea thing, could this be a consequence of going against a Splinter's (yes, leap of reason, spren are now Splinters in my mind, at least Nahel spren) Intent? Because if so, I like it! And this may help confirm to Chaos whether Splinters have separate (or at least sub-) Intents! Honor was shattered.. but when? Before the Radiants? If it was after them, this doesn't make sense. It would have to be before Nohadon (is that it? In Dalinar's vision), because he mention the Nahel bond explicitly.

So Kaladin feels bad when he does dishonourable things? Not that he's been doing many of those, well.. ever. This needs backing up...

Sorry for backing up so far, but I just had a cool thought. People have theorized that Dalinar belongs in Order 8 Resolute Builder. Has anyone else noticed that Dalinar feels nausea, while killing Parshendi, which is destructive and the opposite of builder? He is also at his most uncertain, because he doesn't know if he's going crazy, and uncertain is the opposite of Resolute!!! Does anyone know if Kaladin feels sick while not protecting/leading? Maybe this has something to do with his depression, because he's bonded to Syl, but not following the attributes of his order.

In an unrelated note, I don't know that its for certain Honor is Shattered, though it seems very likely.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Windrunner

[Aiken Frost he/him]

Does anyone know if Kaladin feels sick while not protecting/leading?

Well, I think he is so miserable through the whole book precisely for not doing that.

[Aminar]

Sorry for backing up so far, but I just had a cool thought. People have theorized that Dalinar belongs in Order 8 Resolute Builder. Has anyone else noticed that Dalinar feels nausea, while killing Parshendi, which is destructive and the opposite of builder? He is also at his most uncertain, because he doesn't know if he's going crazy, and uncertain is the opposite of Resolute!!! Does anyone know if Kaladin feels sick while not protecting/leading? Maybe this has something to do with his depression, because he's bonded to Syl, but not following the attributes of his order.

In an unrelated note, I don't know that its for certain Honor is Shattered, though it seems very likely.

I can get behind that. The thrill protected him from the effects then, but as he got stronger the thrill became less protection... I feel like this is either total bunk, or really important.

[Odium's_Shard]

I can get behind that. The thrill protected him from the effects then, but as he got stronger the thrill became less protection... I feel like this is either total bunk, or really important.

I get behind it also, even though I've been away so long as to comment on a reopening of my previous comment...

I also had a thought that lends to this theory. If, when Dalinar isn't being a Builder, he feels less Resolute (nausea, feels like he doesn't want to continue), then, have we any evidence that when Shallan has been dis-Honest, she feels less creative? This could signify a very important link between the primary and secondary attributes of the Orders.

Also, when she isn't being creative (instead has dull thoughts, morning dampening, etc.) does she do disHonest things? When Dalinar isn't Resolute in what he is doing, does he do 'more harm than good' so to speak, or isn't being constructive (as I am going to take 'Builder' to mean).

We could be on to something.

[spirit he/him]

Does anyone know if Kaladin feels sick while not protecting/leading?

The other bridgemen nodded at that. The rest had gathered, carrying weapons. It was time to go.

Kaladin tried to squelch the feeling of despair inside him. This Dalinar Kholin was probably just like the

others. Like Roshone, like Sadeas, like any number of other lighteyes. Pretending virtue but corrupted

inside.

page 600

the thought of not protecting makes Kaladin despair but it doesn't seem to effect his leadership

[NewbSombrero he/him]

I am also prone to think of the Physical characteristic as being the Stormlight, with the Spiritual being the Power of Creation (or Honor/Cultivation/Odium) behind the Stormlight. Just becuase it is mystical doesn't mean that it isn't physical

I actually have been theorizing that Stormlight may be the Spiritual component in Surgebinding because in one of the Q&As Brandon said that Awakening and Surgebinding share some defining characteristics. (I'll find the exact quote later when I'm on my own computer. Can't figure out how to find things on my friend's Mac.) My thought has been that Breath and Stormlight parellel each other in this similarity.

[The Grand Conspiracy]

 touch is necessary for Lashings and Soulcasting. 

doesn't Jasnah shoot out a bolt of stormlight when she turns those to bandits into smoke? That didn't require touch

[natc]

Well it does for everyone else so far as we can tell. She even touched the jam.

Some suspect Transportation was involved.

[Navy Seon he/him]

Another thing I notice as I write this is that in Awakening, Allomancy, AonDor, and Soulcasting the physical component is used up. I'm not sure what this means, but it is an interesting point.

 

 

 

I dont think aons are really used up. its more of permanent effect. aondaa last for a second its purpose to blast someone but aonashe lights up forever as long as we know.