If you were a twinborn, what would you like to be?

[BrendenShouse]

16 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Gold healing does not make you immortal. It heals you perfectly, but you still age. 

After a certain point, healing would fail in the face of age, similarly to Atium requiring greater and greater amounts to stay young. 

Wait what? I thought if you were using enough feruchemical healing that it would stop aging because aging damages the cells so it's constantly repairing the damage that causes cellular aging.  

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, BrendenShouse said:

Wait what? I thought if you were using enough feruchemical healing that it would stop aging because aging damages the cells so it's constantly repairing the damage that causes cellular aging.  

Your age is linked to your spiritweb. If I remember correctly we see miles lament getting older in one of his viewpoints. 

Gold healing is based off of a spiritual ideal, and your spirit knows how old you are. 

Again atium works the same way. If your 30 years old you only have to tap 10 years of age to look 20. But the lord ruler would have had to tap nearly 1000 years to look that young. 

Gold will heal you to the peak that it can for your age, but you will continue to age. 

[BrendenShouse]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Your age is linked to your spiritweb. If I remember correctly we see miles lament getting older in one of his viewpoints. 

Gold healing is based off of a spiritual ideal, and your spirit knows how old you are. 

Again atium works the same way. If your 30 years old you only have to tap 10 years of age to look 20. But the lord ruler would have had to tap nearly 1000 years to look that young. 

Gold will heal you to the peak that it can for your age, but you will continue to age. 

Ok, sorry I guess I didn't pay close enough attention while reading.  Is there a way to rewrite your spiritweb without possessing a shard or a sliver?  

[+Extesian]

3 minutes ago, BrendenShouse said:

Ok, sorry I guess I didn't pay close enough attention while reading.  Is there a way to rewrite your spiritweb without possessing a shard or a sliver?  

It's a complicated issue. @Calderis has the right of it, though the way I explain it is that your true age is by reference to the things you're spiritually connected to. Atium can fool you but when you stop compounding it, the Connections you have to other things show that those other things have aged by a certain number of years. When every thing in the Cosmere has aged by, say, 500 years, and you haven't, those Connections provide a kind of universal clock that can't be fooled. So when you stop compounding atium, stop fooling your physical, cognitive and spiritual aspects into thinking time hasn't passed, that universal clock kicks in.

Lerasium rewrites a spirit web. Becoming a Mistborn seems to be almost a side effect, the principal effect though is rewriting the spirit web. 

Quote

INTERVIEW: Oct 15th, 2010

17th Shard Interview (Verbatim)

17TH SHARD

If a Mistborn burns lerasium, as in, not just ingests it, what effect would it grant Allomantically?

BRANDON SANDERSON

That is a RAFO. It would do something, but the thing you've gotta remember is that, when ingesting lerasium for the first time and gaining the powers, your body is actually burning it. Think of lerasium as a metal anyone can burn. Does that make sense?

17TH SHARD

It does.

BRANDON SANDERSON

By burning it you gain access to those powers. It rewrites your spiritual DNA, and there are ways to do really cool things with lerasium that I don't see how anyone would know. Were most Mistborn to just burn it, it would rewrite their genetic code to increase their power as an Allomancer.

Quote

INTERVIEW: Mar 16th, 2012

A "Late-Breaking" Report (Paraphrased)

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

Lerasium overwrites Spiritual DNA. It can do some interesting things, and can overwrite your Spiritual DNA in different ways if you do it right. If a Surgebinder ate lerasium, he would become an Allomancer, but Brandon implied other things could be done.

 

[Calderis]

15 minutes ago, BrendenShouse said:

Ok, sorry I guess I didn't pay close enough attention while reading.

No worries. Like @Extesian's post shows, until you start digging into the rules of the Cosmere (which we tend to call Realmatic Theory, or just realmatics), your assumption was a natural one based off the science we know. 

19 minutes ago, BrendenShouse said:

Is there a way to rewrite your spiritweb without possessing a shard or a sliver?  

Lerasium like stated, hemalurgy (which has obvious drawbacks), 

Emperors Soul spoilers

Spoiler

Soulstamps temporarily rewrite your spiritweb, but must be frequently reapplied, and age is probably one of the harder things to change with them. 

Warbreaker spoilers

Spoiler

The heightenings seem to have some odd effects. The 5th Heightening seems to hold your spirit in a type of stasis, and makes you truly ageless. You become functionally immortal, and if you drop below that heightening, you merely resume aging where you left off. 

So there's multiple ways, and ways to become immortal, but there's always costs to achieve them. 

[BrendenShouse]

14 minutes ago, Extesian said:

It's a complicated issue. @Calderis has the right of it, though the way I explain it is that your true age is by reference to the things you're spiritually connected to. Atium can fool you but when you stop compounding it, the Connections you have to other things show that those other things have aged by a certain number of years. When every thing in the Cosmere has aged by, say, 500 years, and you haven't, those Connections provide a kind of universal clock that can't be fooled. So when you stop compounding atium, stop fooling your physical, cognitive and spiritual aspects into thinking time hasn't passed, that universal clock kicks in.

Lerasium rewrites a spirit web. Becoming a Mistborn seems to be almost a side effect, the principal effect though is rewriting the spirit web. 

 

Ok, so its an unknown for now anyway if you could become immortal from being any kind of twin born.  There has to be a way to trick the spiritual DNA though right?  In Warbreaker if someone holds enough Breath they stop aging.  I know this isn't Mistborn related I'm sorry if I'm not allowed to add this part of the forum.

 

Edit: @Calderis ok thanks for clearing that up.  Sanderson never seems to do anything simplistically and i guess it would've been disappointing if it was any simpler. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by BrendenShouse

[AnonymousFan]

Zinc[F]/Pewter[Allo]

[17th Splinter]

On 8/5/2017 at 5:00 PM, Extesian said:

It's a complicated issue. @Calderis has the right of it, though the way I explain it is that your true age is by reference to the things you're spiritually connected to. Atium can fool you but when you stop compounding it, the Connections you have to other things show that those other things have aged by a certain number of years. When every thing in the Cosmere has aged by, say, 500 years, and you haven't, those Connections provide a kind of universal clock that can't be fooled. So when you stop compounding atium, stop fooling your physical, cognitive and spiritual aspects into thinking time hasn't passed, that universal clock kicks in.

Lerasium rewrites a spirit web. Becoming a Mistborn seems to be almost a side effect, the principal effect though is rewriting the spirit web. 

 

So what if you were able to store connection? Could you make yourself younger, then store your connection to zero and begin aging from there? The way you said it seems like if your spirit has no connection then it doesn't know how old you should be.

[+Extesian]

6 hours ago, 17th Splinter said:

So what if you were able to store connection? Could you make yourself younger, then store your connection to zero and begin aging from there? The way you said it seems like if your spirit has no connection then it doesn't know how old you should be.

Good question. We don't know enough about what storing Connection does I think. Does it store a specific Connection? Does it store all your Connections? Perhaps if you run out of atium and keep storing Connection it would stop your spiritual self from realizing it's aged. 

[AnonymousFan]

52 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Good question. We don't know enough about what storing Connection does I think. Does it store a specific Connection? Does it store all your Connections? Perhaps if you run out of atium and keep storing Connection it would stop your spiritual self from realizing it's aged. 

I feel like it's similar to storing memories, ex: you store a memory to tap them a tank a later date. 

So you could store connection of the land around you, and able to tap that at a later date. I think.

 

Also in this topic of the thread, I think I would like to be a

pewter allomancer/                   zinc feruchemist

[17th Splinter]

On 8/12/2017 at 6:36 PM, Extesian said:

Good question. We don't know enough about what storing Connection does I think. Does it store a specific Connection? Does it store all your Connections? Perhaps if you run out of atium and keep storing Connection it would stop your spiritual self from realizing it's aged. 

What if you zero Identity instead? That might work better if you real age is stored in you spiritual Identity.

Twinborn combination: A Pewter, F Nicrosil 

(I'm thinking a super burst of awesomeness. Super speed, super strength, super healing ect)

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by 17th Splinter

[Nathrangking]

steel compounder could be pretty awesome. 

[+hwiles]

On 8/5/2017 at 5:36 PM, BrendenShouse said:

Wait what? I thought if you were using enough feruchemical healing that it would stop aging because aging damages the cells so it's constantly repairing the damage that causes cellular aging.  

I think you deserve more credit for this than you received; compounding gold heals anything that, on a deep and spiritual level, a person perceives as damage.  A gold-compounder with a rigorous understanding of the science of aging ought to be able to prevent cell damage due to aging, which could allow them to live an incredibly long time relative to a normal human.  However, they still wouldn't be immortal, and their quality of life would still gradually decline due to the ravages of time.  This is because there are aspects of aging that, while not technically damaging in and of themselves, are still bad for you when aggregated.  Through no fault of DNA damage due to cell-division a gold-compounder would still eventually experience blindness, deafness, memory-loss (technically uncontrolled memory-overwriting; their brain would just eventually be "full"), dementia (as well as emotional disorders as new memories and neurological connections randomly replace old ones), stiffening of arteries (could be slowed with a good diet, but my understanding is that it couldn't be stopped completely), and last but certainly not least, elongation (drooping) of extremities (which is theorized to simply be caused by gravity) eventually resulting in loss of mobility.

So Miles might have been able to live a few hundred years, but somewhere between approximately 150 and 300, he probably wouldn't have wanted to anymore.  (maybe longer, I'm not a doctor)

[BrendenShouse]

34 minutes ago, hwiles said:

I think you deserve more credit for this than you received; compounding gold heals anything that, on a deep and spiritual level, a person perceives as damage.  A gold-compounder with a rigorous understanding of the science of aging ought to be able to prevent cell damage due to aging, which could allow them to live an incredibly long time relative to a normal human.  However, they still wouldn't be immortal, and their quality of life would still gradually decline due to the ravages of time.  This is because there are aspects of aging that, while not technically damaging in and of themselves, are still bad for you when aggregated.  Through no fault of DNA damage due to cell-division a gold-compounder would still eventually experience blindness, deafness, memory-loss (technically uncontrolled memory-overwriting; their brain would just eventually be "full"), dementia (as well as emotional disorders as new memories and neurological connections randomly replace old ones), stiffening of arteries (could be slowed with a good diet, but my understanding is that it couldn't be stopped completely), and last but certainly not least, elongation (drooping) of extremities (which is theorized to simply be caused by gravity) eventually resulting in loss of mobility.

So Miles might have been able to live a few hundred years, but somewhere between approximately 150 and 300, he probably wouldn't have wanted to anymore.  (maybe longer, I'm not a doctor)

First off, thank you for thinking it was a good idea.  I understand what you mean about it eventually making you age in other ways.  Perhaps if you understood all the ways your body would deteriorate you could force your perspective to see all of that as damage.  If you couldn't fully mind hack your mind that way there would still be other ways wouldn't there?  If one was a full-born born Post-Atium you could go though surgeries when necessary to fix droopiness and constantly draw the senses, strength, wakefulness, memories, and the others.  Atium would still be the best solution to stop aging but surely a Fullborn would be able to at least survive?  (I know that wasn't what this topic was about so i apologize to the Admins if i cant talk about this here)

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, BrendenShouse said:

First off, thank you for thinking it was a good idea.  I understand what you mean about it eventually making you age in other ways.  Perhaps if you understood all the ways your body would deteriorate you could force your perspective to see all of that as damage.  If you couldn't fully mind hack your mind that way there would still be other ways wouldn't there?  If one was a full-born born Post-Atium you could go though surgeries when necessary to fix droopiness and constantly draw the senses, strength, wakefulness, memories, and the others.  Atium would still be the best solution to stop aging but surely a Fullborn would be able to at least survive?  (I know that wasn't what this topic was about so i apologize to the Admins if i cant talk about this here)

This thread has gone on other tangents before. I think it should be fine. 

I don't disagree it could prolong life. I was just trying to point out that with the evidence we have, aging continues. 

Like I said in my original post, from a purely scientific perspective it makes sense, so it's not a bad idea. The Cosmere just adds spiritual weirdness that undermines the idea. 

I hadn't considered the psychological impacts the way @hwiles did. I wonder, Cosmerically (is that a word?), if that would still be an issue or if the mind would expand in the Cognitive realm. We know there are still neurological problems in the Cosmere, but we also have entities surviving with memories that don't have bodies anymore, so I wonder how crucial the brain truly is to memory and cognition. 

[+hwiles]

31 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I hadn't considered the psychological impacts the way @hwiles did. I wonder, Cosmerically (is that a word?), if that would still be an issue or if the mind would expand in the Cognitive realm. We know there are still neurological problems in the Cosmere, but we also have entities surviving with memories that don't have bodies anymore, so I wonder how crucial the brain truly is to memory and cognition. 

That's a fair point; I believe that it's been confirmed that TLR's memory was in fact essentially perfect due to magical shenanigans and not just a myth he encouraged (l'll leave the discussion of the exact mechanics to other threads).  Meaning, he had access to 1,000+ years of photo-perfect recall.  I feel like it would strain credulity to suggest that all of that information existed physically in his brain in the same way that information exists in a normal brain (basically as an intricate 3D spiderweb of connections).  The information storage density of the brain is incredible, but it is finite.  In light of that (as well as copper feruchemy in general), it seems probable that the fundamentals of neuroscience simply aren't applicable in the Cosmere.  If that's the case, then dementia wouldn't be inevitable, however, without specific magical memory preservation shenanigans, I'd imagine that a person in the Cosmere would still gradually forget large swaths of their life-experiences (though only the ones they don't think about regularly or treasure the most dearly) if they lived long enough, which might not drive them insane, but it might put them at a higher risk of experiencing depression and loneliness...

[Calderis]

@hwiles my brain was going in the same direction. Assuming that someone lacks the ability to preserve memories via Copperminds, I agree it would be a slow but natural degradation. 

The way memory functions I think would also slowly twist those memories to create an odd kind of longevity induced dementia of its own. 

The memories thought of most frequently would indeed be preserved, but the act of access a memory affects it. False memories would be created frequently as the anchor points in their life slowly shift to accommodate their perceptions of the portions of memory on which they focus slowly twisting them away from the original memory. 

I... Don't think it would be pleasant in the long term. I feel like the happy memories would become incomparable and the lows would be devastating. 

True but unimportant memories simply fade, and important memories shift overtime to be completely unreliable. And as it's not actually a physical process, there's nothing to "heal" so it would be a permanent alteration that would heavily effect the personality of the person. 

No thank you. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Calderis

[Tate]

Either Pewter/Pewter or Steel/Steel

[BrendenShouse]

7 hours ago, Calderis said:

This thread has gone on other tangents before. I think it should be fine. 

I don't disagree it could prolong life. I was just trying to point out that with the evidence we have, aging continues. 

Like I said in my original post, from a purely scientific perspective it makes sense, so it's not a bad idea. The Cosmere just adds spiritual weirdness that undermines the idea. 

I hadn't considered the psychological impacts the way @hwiles did. I wonder, Cosmerically (is that a word?), if that would still be an issue or if the mind would expand in the Cognitive realm. We know there are still neurological problems in the Cosmere, but we also have entities surviving with memories that don't have bodies anymore, so I wonder how crucial the brain truly is to memory and cognition. 

I understand, i'm behind on the Cosmere i know pretty much everyone knows more than me.  

Spoiler

I just read Mistborn Secret History and i assumed that Spook and hopefully Miles would all be there in future Mistborn series(s)

  I understand how the spirit web would eventually go holy cow you're like 500 years old and then you'd die.  I made that comment without understanding what i was talking about.  

---

[Erandeni]

I'd choose Gold/duralumin, just to know what happens.I don't think we know that much about those metals.

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, Idealistic said:

I'd choose Gold/duralumin, just to know what happens.I don't think we know that much about those metals.

Would you see multiple alternative shadows and the choices that made them, all converging back at some point in your past? 

That would be pretty intense. 

[Stormsurfer]

pewter/steel

[shadowwisp]

Lerasium/Lerasium........am I allowed to do that? 

[Ethan_sedai]

Nicrosil Ferring and an Electrum Misting. Without a specific identity to show you the future of, it would possibly show you the future of everything else. Atium without the atium.

[Ethan_sedai]

On 4/6/2017 at 3:34 AM, Lord Bookworm said:

Since Lerasium is the ultimate metal in allomancy, both of which are preservation. Atium is the ultimate metal for hemalurgy, both of which are from ruin. As follows, harmonium must be the ultimate metal for feruchemy, since both are from harmony. I haven't really decided what this means yet, possibly it means you can store any attribute in it. So, a lerasium/harmonium thing would be the best twinborn ability, since you can literally compound anything. However, compounding it wouldn't really work, since it explodes in contact with water. Perhaps swallowing a capsule of it coated in a non reactive coating of oil?

does that mean that full feruchemists are actually just harmonium ferrings?