SylphrenaHonorSpren Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 I just received quite a good question from my good friend who does not have a Shard account. He asked, "What the heck does copper compounding do to the memories?" I thought it was a great question, so I'm posting it here. 1
Weltall Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 Brandon has repeatedly RAFO'd questions about Copper compounding.
Oversleep Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, SylphrenaHonorSpren said: I just received quite a good question from my good friend who does not have a Shard account. He asked, "What the heck does copper compounding do to the memories?" I thought it was a great question, so I'm posting it here. BoM spoilers Spoiler It seems it allows to copy/multiply them. Not very useful by itself; hovewer, unkeyed metalminds and medallions make it much more useful. Edited March 10, 2017 by Oversleep 1
Cosmere Savant Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 One would think that Copper compounding would result in a complete recapture of the memory as if you were experiencing it all over again. Like Wax did with the unkeyed coin medallion. 1
SylphrenaHonorSpren Posted March 10, 2017 Author Posted March 10, 2017 These are great answers! I'm not surprised Brandon would RAFO copper compounding. It would be a great topic for further exploration as Scadrial progresses and allomancy/feruchemy/hemalurgy develops along with it. As the world gets more complicated, I'm looking forward to seeing what new things can be done with these metals.
Sheridan_rd Posted March 11, 2017 Posted March 11, 2017 On 3/9/2017 at 6:31 PM, Oversleep said: BoM spoilers Reveal hidden contents It seems it allows to copy/multiply them. Not very useful by itself; hovewer, unkeyed metalminds and medallions make it much more useful. I think copper compounding would create multiple copies of the stored memories, which would allow the Twinborn (or others) to tap the metal mind ×2 for perfect recollection. Secondly I believe a Double Twinborn should be able burn someone else's metal mind and store the contains. However, this is far inferior to regular Compounding except with Copper. Of course BoM changes the importance of being a natural Twinbown 1
8bitBob Posted March 11, 2017 Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) Personally, I think it's pretty likely that copper compounding allows you to create duplicate memories, though I think of it more as there being a large well of the same memory to draw from. This jives with what we understand about compounding, which allows you to create Feruchemical abilities from Investiture drawn from Preservation. In the case of metals like Steel or Pewter, this is very simple because those attributes are generic, but the underlying mechanics should still be the same. When you tap a coppermind, you gain exactly as much memory as you put inside. If you compound the coppermind, you should get more than you put inside. This would allow you to share memories with others through the use of unkeyed copperminds, or have very vivid and realistic memories in the case of BoM's epilogue. I think the most valuable aspect is subtler though. Relevant WoB: Quote INTERVIEW: Jul 29th, 2006 Mistborn: The Final Empire Annotations (Verbatim) BRANDON SANDERSON We mention the Lord Ruler's flawless memory here. This is actually the only time in the entire series that it's mentioned. However, this is an important clue for later. However, as I'm writing this, without being able to hide this text, I don't want to explain too much and inadvertently ruin something. However, if you've finished the book, you might be able to figure out why the Lord Ruler might have a reputation for being able to remember things. FOOTNOTE Namely, it's because he's a Feruchemist and so can store memories in Copperminds. Bolded the most relevant portions. If you could compound copper, you could tap a coppermind over time and have perfect recollection of the memory for the duration that you do. If you wanted, you could store your entire day of memories every day, compound it and then never forget a thing. You would need increasingly large amounts of copper on your person as time went on, so you'd probably want limit it to important memories, but the ability itself would be incredibly useful. Edited March 11, 2017 by 8bitBob 3
SylphrenaHonorSpren Posted March 14, 2017 Author Posted March 14, 2017 Wow, @8bitBob, that's incredible! I love it! I wonder, does this mean you could possibly remember events that happen when you're unconscious? If you're still tapping that coppermind, would it still record those experiences?
Mr. Staccato he/him Posted March 14, 2017 Posted March 14, 2017 3 hours ago, SylphrenaHonorSpren said: Wow, @8bitBob, that's incredible! I love it! I wonder, does this mean you could possibly remember events that happen when you're unconscious? If you're still tapping that coppermind, would it still record those experiences? Not likely. You have to witness something to recollect it - otherwise, you wouldn't be remembering memories, you'd be making them. Even if you argue for semi-consciousness, it's not as if we can actually recall what it is that we do during those half-lucid states. I for one think storing memories is a little bit like painting a canvas. We capture things as they are but the more we "air" the memory out the higher the potential for the memory to deteriorate. So compounding it would be like - I don't know - transferring the paint unto sturdier stuff? Like engraving it on metal? It doesn't exactly duplicate it - and it's not like compounding memory can somehow sharpen or add depth to a memory if there was no depth to the memory to begin with. That would be just weird. I think it simply "burns" the memory completely into the mind so that it would be impossible to ever forget - not perfect recollection per say. If you compound the memory it simply preserves it at the state it was currently stored, but in exchange it will never lose detail, and storing it afterwards would simply copy it but not remove the memory from the compounder. 5
SylphrenaHonorSpren Posted March 17, 2017 Author Posted March 17, 2017 @Mr. Staccato, that was a beautifully made point. I really appreciate it. I know I'm late in getting back to you but I really enjoyed your explanation! 1
Panwp Posted March 27, 2017 Posted March 27, 2017 In my opinion, since compounding aplifiles effect of feruchemy, burning coppermind should permament imprint stored memory into your, well, memories
+robardin he/him Posted March 27, 2017 Posted March 27, 2017 I figured it was how a coppermind coin like the one Wax was given by Hoid could be produced without the original memory being lost to whoever put it in there: with compounded copper. If a 10x factor is consistent with other kinds of compounding, it would mean the Feruchemist could create 9x or so "cloned" copperminds of some information while tapping the 10th one to put the memory back into his own head. 2
Jondesu he/him Posted April 10, 2017 Posted April 10, 2017 On 3/27/2017 at 4:16 PM, robardin said: I figured it was how a coppermind coin like the one Wax was given by Hoid could be produced without the original memory being lost to whoever put it in there: with compounded copper. If a 10x factor is consistent with other kinds of compounding, it would mean the Feruchemist could create 9x or so "cloned" copperminds of some information while tapping the 10th one to put the memory back into his own head. It's been strongly implied that the memory in that coin was one Kelsier didn't want to have anymore, which means it may have been lost to him (intentionally). You're not alone in thinking that Copper compounding could allow for that, though, and I agree with the principle. 1
Oversleep Posted April 10, 2017 Posted April 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Jondesu said: It's been strongly implied that the memory in that coin was one Kelsier didn't want to have anymore, which means it may have been lost to him (intentionally). ...when was it implied?
Jondesu he/him Posted April 10, 2017 Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Oversleep said: ...when was it implied? There was a WoB about there being memories Kelsier wouldn't want to keep, which was in response to a question about the medallions. I'm horrible at tracking them down, but I can check. EDIT: It's possible I was misremembering this one, but I think it was a different one. Quote QUESTION I asked why Hoid gave the memory coin to Wax, what his motivation was (since it seemed to cast a more positive light on someone Hoid does not like), and BRANDON SANDERSON Brandon said he did it to correct a lie that was being perpetuated. QUESTION I said that I was still suspicious of Hoid, BRANDON SANDERSON to which he said I should be, as those two (Hoid and Kelsier) do not get along. He said that the memory uncovered a truth that Kelsier did not want to be known. EDIT 2: This is the one I was thinking of (less clear, but still implies it could be the case): Quote QUESTION Did Kelsier fill copperminds for any reason other than sharing knowledge? Would he want to forget certain memories? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes and Yes. Those may not be causally related. You asked two separate questions and got two separate answers. Edited April 10, 2017 by Jondesu
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted April 10, 2017 Posted April 10, 2017 I actually took it the other way. Brandon made sure to indicate that they were two separate answers. And the second seemed obvious - of course Kell has things he'd want to forget. We all do! But those memories (along with those we would never want to forget) are often the ones that most define us.
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