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Jewish Superhero!


Delightful

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So I had an amazing idea and I need to share it because also I need a self-esteem boost right now.

But first, some cultural background.

So how divorce works in Orthodox Judaism is that the husband has to give a divorce paper, called a Get, to his wife. He has all the power. Most of the time both parties want the divorce and it works out. And in some cases, if the guy is a douchebag, he'll withhold the Get just to torture his wife, because he can. And it's super disturbing and problematic and we haven't quite found a solution yet and there are a whole lot of women who are trapped because they can't remarry or move on with their lives while they're still legally married to this chullhat. Its very very bad. 

Enter my superhero.

Daredevil-style.

By day she follows the letter of the law, believes in G-D's plan, studies Torah. By night she beats up Get-refusers until they give in and divorce their wives. 

Who's with me? 

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22 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

I'm with you, although I think she'd be even more fun to watch if her tactics were a bit more...elegant than simply beating people up. Have you seen Monsters University?

I have, which part are you referring to?

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Sure. I mean if Get-refuser are the only targets then that seems oddly specific a thing to go vigilante for and nothing else  but it's certainly an injustice. (That and I'm not sure how much the Torah encourages just punching people.)

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1 hour ago, Deliiiiiightful said:

So I had an amazing idea and I need to share it because also I need a self-esteem boost right now.

But first, some cultural background.

So how divorce works in Orthodox Judaism is that the husband has to give a divorce paper, called a Get, to his wife. He has all the power. Most of the time both parties want the divorce and it works out. And in some cases, if the guy is a douchebag, he'll withhold the Get just to torture his wife, because he can. And it's super disturbing and problematic and we haven't quite found a solution yet and there are a whole lot of women who are trapped because they can't remarry or move on with their lives while they're still legally married to this chullhat. Its very very bad. 

Enter my superhero.

Daredevil-style.

By day she follows the letter of the law, believes in G-D's plan, studies Torah. By night she beats up Get-refusers until they give in and divorce their wives. 

Who's with me? 

First of all, wow, yeah. Gonna have to echo that "super disgusting and problematic" part of it.

Secondly... I have to admit, I'm coming at this with a difference of opinion, but my immediate reaction to the problem and the pitch isn't that this character reminds me of Daredevil. She actually kind of sounds like Black Canary, at least, Black Canary as she was presented in the Arrowverse. To whit: the original Black Canary was introduced by beating up men who were assaulting a woman. The second Black Canary - while not specifically targeting misogynists - was a lawyer by day, vigilante by night.

(The comic book Black Canary is different... but she has a whole other kind of prestige and is, in general, just an awesome lady.)

So... yeah, I can see someone becoming a superhero to address injustices towards women.

(Not to derail the topic, but I actually have a superheroine idea kind of related to something similar, but... other story, other topic.)

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5 minutes ago, Quiver said:

First of all, wow, yeah. Gonna have to echo that "super disgusting and problematic" part of it.

Secondly... I have to admit, I'm coming at this with a difference of opinion, but my immediate reaction to the problem and the pitch isn't that this character reminds me of Daredevil. She actually kind of sounds like Black Canary, at least, Black Canary as she was presented in the Arrowverse. To whit: the original Black Canary was introduced by beating up men who were assaulting a woman. The second Black Canary - while not specifically targeting misogynists - was a lawyer by day, vigilante by night.

(The comic book Black Canary is different... but she has a whole other kind of prestige and is, in general, just an awesome lady.)

So... yeah, I can see someone becoming a superhero to address injustices towards women.

(Not to derail the topic, but I actually have a superheroine idea kind of related to something similar, but... other story, other topic.)

Arrow the tv show? What season/s is she in?

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26 minutes ago, Edgedancer said:

Sure. I mean if Get-refuser are the only targets then that seems oddly specific a thing to go vigilante for and nothing else  but it's certainly an injustice. (That and I'm not sure how much the Torah encourages just punching people.)

Technical difficulties, apologies for double post -

someone elsewhere suggested also going after sexual predators, corrupt authority figures etc. so that's a possibility. 

So, here's the funny thing. As I understand it: there was this thing they used to do where they would beat up someone to "beat their evil inclination into submission" so their "true intentions" would come clean ans they would be happy to give a Get. Which is also veeeeery questionable if I understand correctly. Of course that doesn't happen today because then you wind up rightfully jailed for assault. But it's hinting to that, and walking that law vs vigilante, right vs wrong, ends justifying means murky line. 

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9 minutes ago, Deliiiiiightful said:

Oooh maybe she does some revenge psychological thing so they feel as trapped as their wives do. 

Well, if they're such scumbags that they'll keep their wives trapped for no good reason, then they'd probably need a good deal of convincing to change their minds. So the psychological revenge thing could also have a pragmatic aspect, in that your superhero could have found out it's the most effective means of getting these men to relent. 

Plus, in the US at least, vigilantism is both illegal and frowned upon by law enforcement (since most RL vigilantes do what they do not for anyone's good but just for revenge on somebody or other). So the psychological thing would be harder to connect her to if she did it right, especially if she stuck to the shadows. 

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True that. Harder to trace, harder to catch her. And I think her day job will be working at an organisation to help Agunot (trapped wives) which is how she knows who to target. And she can channel anger at not being taken seriously into her vigilante role, smudge some murky lines.....

ive never written a morally ambiguous character before. This is going to be *fun*. 

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13 minutes ago, Deliiiiiightful said:

True that. Harder to trace, harder to catch her. And I think her day job will be working at an organisation to help Agunot (trapped wives) which is how she knows who to target. And she can channel anger at not being taken seriously into her vigilante role, smudge some murky lines.....

ive never written a morally ambiguous character before. This is going to be *fun*. 

As a fan ofmorally ambiguous heroes, I approve. :ph34r:

(I mean, I also love me a Superman or Captain America figure, but there's room for both types.)

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1 minute ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

As a fan ofmorally ambiguous heroes, I approve. :ph34r:

(I mean, I also love me a Superman or Captain America figure, but there's room for both types.)

It's also reflecting on the Halacha=totally morality and justice argument because, it's a nice ideology, there's a lot of good,  but sometimes you need a lot of cognitive dissonance to believe it's perfect.  So if no system is perfect....

i also love how shows like The 100 deal with moral dilemmas by having the character do the awful thing, and then deal with the fallout. 

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Um yeah... Back in the day before it was illegal Batei Dinim (Jewish Courts) used to have a guy who was essentially an enforcer for them and he would beat on scumbag husbands until they gave a get. Also, they had the power to put him in cheirem, making him an ostracized outcast until he granted the divorce. Nowadays the law prevents the first and the acceptance of Jews into mainstream society makes the latter less effective. There are certain prenuptial agreements that can be put into place that prevent the husband from having this power over his wife. Many Rabbis will refuse to preside over a wedding unless such arrangements are in place. 

In response to your question though... the Punisher, definitely.

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27 minutes ago, UpLifted said:

Um yeah... Back in the day before it was illegal Batei Dinim (Jewish Courts) used to have a guy who was essentially an enforcer for them and he would beat on scumbag husbands until they gave a get. Also, they had the power to put him in cheirem, making him an ostracized outcast until he granted the divorce. Nowadays the law prevents the first and the acceptance of Jews into mainstream society makes the latter less effective. There are certain prenuptial agreements that can be put into place that prevent the husband from having this power over his wife. Many Rabbis will refuse to preside over a wedding unless such arrangements are in place. 

In response to your question though... the Punisher, definitely.

Hi! Yay there are more of us! Chereim just doesn't work so much when the world is so big. 

You mean the punisher is a good model for this kind of character?

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Instead of Black Canary like @Quiver Said, I would think more along the lines of Ms Marvel (Kamala Khan) . I'm assuming this superhero is a sweet person who just wants to do some good. Also, alot more modest :P 

Image result for Kamala khan Just, y'know, No powers.

And, noo nononononono. Punisher? DEFINITELY NOT. Frank Castle is not a good idea. He's a douchebag himself most of the time. Sure, his family got murdered in front of him, but still!

If you wanna go all badass. Moon Knight or Daredevil are probs the best. perhaps you can introduce more supernatural elements, 7 deadly sins (like Shazam) type.

@Deliiiiiightfulif, if it does, become a web comic. I WOULD LOVE TO HELP DRAaaaWWWW

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4 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Instead of Black Canary like @Quiver Said, I would think more along the lines of Ms Marvel (Kamala Khan) . I'm assuming this superhero is a sweet person who just wants to do some good. Also, alot more modest :P 

Image result for Kamala khan Just, y'know, No powers.

And, noo nononononono. Punisher? DEFINITELY NOT. Frank Castle is not a good idea. He's a douchebag himself most of the time. Sure, his family got murdered in front of him, but still!

If you wanna go all badass. Moon Knight or Daredevil are probs the best. perhaps you can introduce more supernatural elements, 7 deadly sins (like Shazam) type.

@Deliiiiiightfulif, if it does, become a web comic. I WOULD LOVE TO HELP DRAaaaWWWW

Ah Kamala Khan is. The. Best.! 

Well I was gonna write is a as prose but....thanks :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

I actually know of a Rabbi who had the mafia 'convince' a guy to give a get... but that was the Italian mafia, and in the 60s I think.

New York State is pretty good about this, as they actually have laws protecting the women. Women have power now too, as men are, for the most part, allowed only one wife. (There are some very hard to get exceptions; generally when the wife is vegetative or similar. And then convince 100 Rabbis that they should agree to it.) Some people I know got theirs because of that. It can also be put in a divorce settlement. Some women I knew got it that way.

But it was much easier when we could beat the guy up. It also served as a better deterrent. (And if he didn't agree, well, a widow is free too...) So I am TOTALLY on board with a vigilante beating up these guys.

But you'd need two - two witnesses! And one has to be a scribe. Also, at least one of the refusers has to try and invalidate the get after it's sent, only to discover that this actually anulls the marriage.

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