Darkness [Edgedancer Spoilers]

[thegatorgirl00]

When Lift is chasing Darkness, Wyndle says he has a spren.

Quote

"What are these 'eyes' you say he has?" she asked as Wyndle wound up beside her. "The ones I can't see."

"He will have a spren," Wyndle said. "Like me. It's likely invisible to you and anyone else but him. Most are, on this side, I think. I don't remember all the rules."

Ch. 8

Does Wyndle say this simply because he does not know about or recognize the Honorblade? Or did Nale actually bond a highspren? Syl recognized Szeth's honorblade, but I think she was around before the Recreance and Wyndle wasn't.

[FirstSelector]

I assume this is because Wyndle doesn't know who Nale is.  Recall that Syl didn't immediately remember why Szeth using an Honorblade should be different from a normal Shardblade.

[natc]

I had assumed so as well. Syl seemed to pinpoint the honorblade as the source of Szeth's surges fine, but not quite what the blade was and why it could do so, at least not at first.

 

Perhaps being an honorspren, and closer to the Stormfather than Wyndle likely was, she may have been more knowledgeable about honorblades than cultivationspren would be. Plus she seems to have prior experience under other surgebinders.

[DSC01]

Yeah, he definitely did not know that Nalan was a Herald. Only when he heard Szeth call him by name did he realize, and then he started to freak out about it (or perhaps just worry a bit more aggressively than usual). There are a number of possibilities as to why he didn't pick up on his Honorblade being different. If it isn't because Syl is just different from Wyndle, it could be because there is nothing odd to sense when a Herald is using their own Honorblade, but something seems off when a normal human uses one.

[thejopen27]

It is possible that Nalan isn't the Herald who went back for his blade and instead had bonded a Highspren in order not to risk a desolation through using an honorblade.

[Argent]

1 hour ago, thejopen27 said:

It is possible that Nalan isn't the Herald who went back for his blade and instead had bonded a Highspren in order not to risk a desolation through using an honorblade.

Possible? Sure. But I think the evidence against Nale being a Herald - the name, the knowledge, the mannerism, the seemingly supernatural speed (which we've also seen from Taln), it all points towards him being a Herald. 

[Pagerunner]

9 minutes ago, Argent said:

Possible? Sure. But I think the evidence against Nale being a Herald - the name, the knowledge, the mannerism, the seemingly supernatural speed (which we've also seen from Taln), it all points towards him being a Herald. 

But are we sure he's the Herald with an Honorblade? Or did he abandon his blade, then join his Order the old-fashioned way? (I think he does have an Honorblade, but that's the question that @thejopen27 seemed to be asking.)

[Argent]

Ah, hmm. Then who knows? From what we've seen there is just about the same amount of evidence for him and Shalash, though I've started considering that it might be Ishar 'cause that guy is starting to sound fishy. 

[What's a Seawolf?]

In regards to whether or not Darkness has an honorbalde...

This passage is from the end of Edegdancer (I don't know how to quote text.)  This is just after he stabs through Lift's shirt.

"He put his hand to the side, summoning his Blade again as Lift frantically scrambled to free herself.  The knife had sunk in deeply, and he kept one hand on it.  Storms, he was strong!  Lift bit his arm, to no effect.  She struggled to pull off the overshirt, Slicking herself but not it.

"His Shardblade appeared, and he raised it..."

To me, it sounds like it was not an immediate appearance which is how I think Honorblades function.  Maybe too short for ten heartbeats, but certainly longer than instant.

Probably reading too much into it, but I read that and took it as a hint that it was just a regular Shardblade that Nale uses.

[Argent]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that passage, but the time flow of the scene is unclear. 

[Kanrei]

We dont know for sure if he was rly summoning blade at that point or only prepared for it.

When I read it I imagined it that way. He dismissed blade so he could easier attack Lift with knife. Then he put his hand to side waiting for effect of his attack with knife, when it worked how he planed he summoned blade instantly (it was assumption which Im not sure now if its correct, more below).

Thing is, Nale has Surge of Gravitation and I think ability to suck in Stormlight, so either he has Honorblade, or he bonded spren. If that was spren I would except him to progress enough to have alive Shardblade which he could not only summon instantly but change it shape.

Other explanation is that he has dead Shardblade, and his powers are from fabrials, maybe there is fabrial which can do Reverse Lashing (Sanderson said that all Surges could be replicated with fabrial), but it would not explain why did he glow.

Or we just make false assumption that Honorblades are summoned instantly. I assumed that Heralds could summon it instantly but I now realize that there was no proof of it. 

Szeth needed 10 heartbeats to summon his. I think that he should have knowledge that it was no dead Shardblade, so there shouldnt be false belief like in case of Shallan sumoning Pattern after 10 heartbeats.
Only other time we see Herald summoning blade is in WoK prologue and its not clear if they need to wait or not.

BTW when i checked prologue of WoK now to see if there is mention of of delayed summoning this fragment attracted my attention :
"Groans of the dying haunted them from behind. There, in Jezrien’s eyes, Kalak saw anguish and grief."
When I read it before I just assumed it was sounds of men on battlefield, but what if this sentence is about same thing which happened to Szeth who hears screams of his victims? What if this is side effect of using Honorblade? If that would be true, it could be argument against theory that Nale retrieved his blade, and it would partially explain why Heralds all seems to go mad.

[natc]

Well, I've always wondered really. Nahel bonds require a broken spiritweb in part due to needing a gap to feed the investiture through. But apparently an honorblade can grant surgebinding to anyone. Would that not necessitate the blade breaking its owner's spirit itself by force?

 

One of the suspected heralds at the party said that they "were not supposed to get worse" so it would seem that there is definitely something in their job description that would normally pose a problem but didn't for them (but it now does).

[Argent]

6 hours ago, natc said:

Would that not necessitate the blade breaking its owner's spirit itself by force?

Not necessarily. 

We now know that magic in the Cosmere works by way of (Spiritual) Connections to Shards. Most of those seem intentional, created (or allowed) by Shards. Some - see Hemalurgy - are unintended, forced. Honorblades might be working off the latter principle. So, when Radiants form a Nahel bond, their cracked Spiritweb allows spren to... squeeze in a little and form Connections; Honorblades might be creating only temporary ones (in fact, I think that's pretty much granted) by kind of... glueing them to their wielder's Spiritweb in a process similar to Hemalurgy, but less intrusive.

[natc]

The temporary connection is somewhat of a given (it does have to be bonded after all) but where is the stormlight to go with no gaps? Allomancy's required connection to Preservation are something one is born with, but until the damage has been sustained it is largely useless.

 

The spren probably sits there in the gap for surgebinders, but without the space I'm not sure anything can pass through the spiritweb to reach it at all . . . brokenness and these sorts of external investiture influxes seem to go hand in hand.

[DSC01]

Well, the Honorblade could create its own gap, just like Hemalurgy does.

Just because an Honorblade's stabby end points away from you when you wield it in the Physical Realm, that doesn't mean that it isn't cutting right into your Spiritweb in the Spiritual Realm. Now that I think about it, the fact that Szeth and the Heralds are both so mentally unstable could be related to that: if the difficulties of life fracture your soul, Investiture can soak in and shore up the cracks, but if the Investiture is itself the chisel into your Spiritweb, then you just end up fragmented.

[Jondesu]

It sounds to me like we're taking the "cracks in the Spiritweb" concept the wrong way.  When Brandon talked about it, it was in the context of gaining access to a magic system that changed your Spiritweb.  A way in is needed for something that becomes part of you.

An Honorblade, however, is like having a magical artifact.  It's doing the magic, not the person, so the person's soul wouldn't need to be cracked, necessarily.  That may also be exactly why the Honorblades (and dead Sprenblades) can't heal the soul, since they're "locked out" of it.  They can neither damage nor heal the wielder's soul.

[ParadoxicalZen]

I seem to recall something along the lines being said that Honourblades can make cracks due to the exorbitant amounts of storm light required by average people to use it but I can't be certain, like how 

Mistborn Spoiler

Vin was using the Mists, which was extremely dangerous in itself

 

[Kanrei]

@AnanasSpren  In WoR Syl mention that Szeth is using very high amounts of Stormlight which is dangerous, but do not specify danger.

I think there was WoB that burning Mists by Vin was dangerous because power output was to high and it would destroy her physical body eventually. Its like you put too much electrical power into wires and burn them.

Maybe with Honorblade and normal human its similar but on smaller scale? Definitely Szeth mind began to crack. 
Looks that Heralds wernt fully protected too. They excepted to get better or at last stable when they gave up their Honorblades, but they are still getting worse, question is why?

[ParadoxicalZen]

I see the Heralds' issues/faults as to do with breaking the Oathpact than anything else, granted we don't k ow the circumstances that forged it in the first place so it's debatable either way. One thing is for certain; I think we safely say that drooling bald man/presumed Herald in the WoK prologue is not Ishar, given how Name has described him

[Kanrei]

@AnanasSpren  First I thought that it was because of time Heralds spent in Damnation being tortured.
Now I think it might be combination of tortures and extensive use of power via Honorblades because of how unstable Szeth become.

Plus like you said we dont know function of Oathpact.

I have feeling that Oathpact wasnt made to battle Odium himself but Honor had some other reason for it, and later just used Heralds against Odium. I base it on WoB where Sanderson said that Heralds arnt happy with what happend to them and blame Honor for that.
And
WoB that Oathpact isnt as broken as Heralds think. It would indirectly imply that returning to Damnation etc wasnt original purpose of Oathpact.

[Full Metal Rithmatist]

He just assumed he had a spren because he thought he was a normal skybreaker at that point. and not the herald.

[Nomial]

I'm fairly sure that Nale doesn't have an honorblade, as when he's fighting Lift in the final passage it says that he attacks her with the blade in the form of an axe, and from Szeth's reaction to Kaladin's spear it's clear that honorblade's can't transform like that. As for the implications of that, it means he must've bonded a highspren but as for how and when and why I don't know

[Jondesu]

19 minutes ago, Nomial said:

I'm fairly sure that Nale doesn't have an honorblade, as when he's fighting Lift in the final passage it says that he attacks her with the blade in the form of an axe, and from Szeth's reaction to Kaladin's spear it's clear that honorblade's can't transform like that. As for the implications of that, it means he must've bonded a highspren but as for how and when and why I don't know

I don't think we know that Honorblades can't do that, though, only that Szeth didn't think they could. I could swear there's even a WoB that implies that.

[thejopen27]

On 11/23/2016 at 0:16 PM, Argent said:

Possible? Sure. But I think the evidence against Nale being a Herald - the name, the knowledge, the mannerism, the seemingly supernatural speed (which we've also seen from Taln), it all points towards him being a Herald. 

No, I agree he is the Herald Nalan, but is it possible that Nalan, has bonded a Spren instead of going back for his shardblade, and it is another Herald who has taken his blade.

[thejopen27]

On 11/23/2016 at 0:47 PM, Argent said:

Ah, hmm. Then who knows? From what we've seen there is just about the same amount of evidence for him and Shalash, though I've started considering that it might be Ishar 'cause that guy is starting to sound fishy. 

I think Ishar has betrayed the other Heralds and and everyone else to Odium.