Full Edgedancer Reaction Thread [Edgedancer Spoilers]

[Chaos]

The time is here! If you want to discuss Edgedancer in full, now you can. 

So what did you think of Edgedancer? One thing blew me away in particular...

[BlackYeti]

I’ve got mixed feelings about Edgedancer. On one hand it’s clearly been written for the fans, and as a fan I absolutely love it. On the other, more objective, hand it feels a bit lacking to me. This could of course be due to the natural tendency to compare it to the two Stormlight books that led into this one, and also to the Emperor’s Soul with which Edgedancer bookends Arcanum Unbounded. Since these stories are exceptional and sit amongst my favourites, feeling lacking in comparison isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

The book, of course, features Lift as the main character which is a major plus. Does anyone anywhere dislike Lift?  Even Nightblood likes her, which I think makes her officially un-unlikable. To me she’s not at the same level as Jasnah (who’s one of my favourite fictional characters overall), but seeing as how much I enjoy reading about her, I’m not too disappointed that this didn’t turn out to be Jasnah’s unpublished novella which I had initially hoped it to be.

Regarding the secret societies of Roshar, we get a new one here: the Sleepless. This is on top of the Ghostbloods, the Sons of Honour, the Diagramists, the Skybreakers (whom it turns out actually are Skybreakers), the Envisagers, and the Seventeenth Shard! It sounds very much like this new lot are the people writing the blurbs for the Stormlight books; and are they all Dysian Aimians, or do they include the Siah as well? Either way, it seems that whenever a new character is introduced now, the question is not “does this person belong to a secret society?”, but rather “to which secret society does this person belong?” Okay, I may be exaggerating, but it is getting very crowded here nonetheless. It would indeed seem that the significant owl hoots in the night.

Naln’s final scene in the novella feels too short to me. I’ll grant you that it’s perfectly in keeping with his character (what little we know of it), but given the significance of what happened, it felt like it was missing something.

Also the way that, at the end of the story Lift ends up heading back to Azimir left it feeling more episodic: less like a complete work in its own right, but rather more like an interlude from one of the main books, albeit longer and on a much grander scale. Like we were being shown some cool new things about the world, and covering some plot points that would be needed for the next book, and on that level it succeeds completely. So overall I really liked it, it just wasn’t on quite the same level as the Emperor’s Soul.

[Chaos]

Regarding the Sleepless, there is a discussion on that going on over here: 

 

[skaa]

So now we know what a Dysian Aimian can do. Arclo is super creepy. But also, super AWESOME!

"I will listen to those who have been ignored." Nice Oath. I think the hugging scene was a bit much, though. Too melodramatic for me. But the Shardfork scene afterwards totally made up for it.

So, was Ym the cobbler that Wyndle talked about? If so, it implies that Ym's spren was also part of Wyndle's "Ring". I wonder what type the Stump's spren is, given that she has access to Regrowth as well.

Edited November 22, 2016 by skaa

[Kanrei]

1 hour ago, skaa said:

So, was Ym the cobbler that Wyndle talked about? If so, it implies that Ym's spren was also part of Wyndle's "Ring". I wonder what type the Stump's spren is, given that she has access to Regrowth as well.

I assumed that Ym was cobbler.
Which seemed strange because Ym's spren was different then Wyndle.
There is theory Ym was Truthwatcher, so could one person attract two kinds of spren, or just Cultivationsprens are less discerning?

Stump is probably Truthwatcher, her spren is described similarly to Ym ones and really different then Wyndle (I assume that sprens of one type look alike, so other cultivationspren would be vinelike like Wyndle).

1 hour ago, skaa said:

"I will listen to those who have been ignored." Nice Oath. I think the hugging scene was a bit much, though. Too melodramatic for me. But the Shardfork scene afterwards totally made up for it.

Well, Nale needed hug at that time

I loved Shardfork, funny thing is that it was tribute to one fan who suggested it I think on Reddit. There was interesting bit about possibility of Shardbows too, and that weapon must be from metal.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Kanrei

[Kanrei]

About novel itself.
I loved it but at same time pacing felt strange. I would prefer either pacing like Emperor's Soul or like Lift's Interlude.
We got glimpses into Lift past, Edgedancers attitude, and a lot questions

About revelations - there was a lot stuff.

First - whats going with Szeth and afterimage when he moves? I dont remember anything like that in WoK and WoR. Is it new thing about Szeth, possible because of his connection to Nightblood or is it something which Lift see because of her special status?

Second - why is Nale thinking that Radiants can cause Desolation? There was WoB that Desolation happens when Heralds leave Damnation and spend enough time on Roshar. As Desolations happened quite a lot times, Nale and other Heralds should know this - and he should know that next Desolation will happen when Taln break and leave Damnation.

At the same time Nale let Skybrekers bond and didnt kill them. It seems to contradict his belief that Radiants cause Desolation or what he was told by Ishar that Radiants could cause Desolation.

Is there something we dont know about nature of Oaths and maybe Recreance happened because Radiants discovered or was told that they can cause Desolation?
Or someone mislead Nale and/or other Heralds?

 

[skaa]

1 hour ago, Kanrei said:

I loved Shardfork, funny thing is that it was tribute to one fan who suggested it I think on Reddit.

Yeah, when I got to that scene I barely managed to stifle my laughter thinking of that particular Reddit comment and how mind-blown that fan must be right now.

1 hour ago, Kanrei said:

There was interesting bit about possibility of Shardbows too, and that weapon must be from metal.

I've had a long-standing obsession with the Realmatic significance of metal (check this, this, and this), and Wyndle just went and fanned the flames.

Edit: Come to think of it, there might already be an old WoB saying that spren can only become metal objects, but I can't find it right now.

Also, regarding Ym and the Stump's spren, it's perfectly possible that a high level of variation appearance-wise exists within some Radiant spren species, so Ym and the Stump might still be-- or might have been, in Ym's case :'( -- proto-Edgedancers. Perhaps Wyndle just looks that way because of his calling as a gardener, a calling that not everyone in the Ring might necessarily share.

Edited November 22, 2016 by skaa
Added point about spren species

[Vindicator]

I've just finished Edgedancer, and my thoughts are:

1. We finally know who are the ones writing the blurbs for each book -- and a hint of their power is shown. It's enough to kill two initiate Radiants, so whoever they are they are not pushovers. 

2. The Skybreakers are indeed the Order that remained. I was so sure it'd be in name only, but they are actual Surgebinders. This brings further questions. What about Helaran? Did he progress enough to obtain his own Shardblade and Shardplate? Were they dead ones, granted for usage? Did he meet the Skybreakers or someone else?

3. There's a rank for Radiants. Initiate seems to be for those who have sworn the first 'binding' oath, Shardbearer for those who have gone to the second binding one (and third overall). This would make Kaladin and Shallan Shardbearer-rank, and Dalinar (possibly Renarin as well) initiates to their respective orders. What are the last two ranks, then?

4. The Heralds aren't working together. Ishar is implied to have lied to Nale. Now that he knows... I wonder what the implications are? If Szeth still goes after the Stone Shamans, will it be because they are tied directly to the Heralds? Perhaps Ishar told them to stow the Honorblades?

5. And Szeth himself. He has an... afterimage. Is it a Radiant ability, or due to his bond with Nightblood? What we know is that he seems to be considered 'worthy' to hold it, at least.

Beyond that, I thought Edgedancer wasn't quite something you'd expect of Brandon; it lacks the Sanderson avalanche we all know and love (The Emperor's Soul did it pretty well). Nale being so unstable is oddly like Szeth and incredibly weird, but I can chalk that up to several millennia of pent-up guilt. Lift hugging him is odd too, for the climax of a story, but I guess Lift has always been an odd one?

Arcanum Unbounded-wise, looks like Bavadin is a she, which is something I was not expecting, and Ambition's power + Adonalsium(?) is behind the shades on Threnody. Nice to get a name on another Shard Odium has splintered, though, and it seems like this is the first one that happened. Also implies that Splintering is a process Odium refined over time, although we need a more definite timeline to place the Shattering, the Last Desolation and Selish prehistory with each other. 

Also... Sel is a sentient planet. That one is... wow.

 

[Kanrei]

3 minutes ago, Vindicator said:

2. The Skybreakers are indeed the Order that remained. I was so sure it'd be in name only, but they are actual Surgebinders. This brings further questions. What about Helaran? Did he progress enough to obtain his own Shardblade and Shardplate? Were they dead ones, granted for usage? Did he meet the Skybreakers or someone else?

Can we really confirm it? We only know that Nale had two Surgebinders of probably Skybreakers Order, but both of them seemed to be new ones, we havnt seen them using Shardblades as if they could do that I guess they woudnt be such pushover for The Sleepless.
So it might be that when sprens started bond again in masses Nale was gathering ones of Skybreakers Order while killing all other Orders.

I always assumed that Bondsmiths didnt break Oaths because that would kill their sprens. Assuming that there are only few sprens which Bondsmits can bond and Stormfather was one of them and was bonded then fact that he is alive would suggest that his Knight didnt break Oaths.

At other hand, " but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine." Words of Radiance, Chapter 38, page 20 " , what Skybreakers doing now is going even beyond subterfuge so maybe it was them.
 

10 minutes ago, Vindicator said:

3. There's a rank for Radiants. Initiate seems to be for those who have sworn the first 'binding' oath, Shardbearer for those who have gone to the second binding one (and third overall). This would make Kaladin and Shallan Shardbearer-rank, and Dalinar (possibly Renarin as well) initiates to their respective orders. What are the last two ranks, then?

I missed it, or is that from talk between Nale and two journeyman Skybreakers?

If Shardbearer mean ability to summon shardblade then it would be from third Oath as thats when spren can transform into weapon.
Shallan at end of WoR is one step higher then Kaladin, which probably mean 4th Oath so she should be higher rank

[Vindicator]

2 minutes ago, Kanrei said:

Can we really confirm it? We only know that Nale had two Surgebinders of probably Skybreakers Order, but both of them seemed to be new ones, we havnt seen them using Shardblades as if they could do that I guess they woudnt be such pushover for The Sleepless.
So it might be that when sprens started bond again in masses Nale was gathering ones of Skybreakers Order while killing all other Orders.

I always assumed that Bondsmiths didnt break Oaths because that would kill their sprens. Assuming that there are only few sprens which Bondsmits can bond and Stormfather was one of them and was bonded then fact that he is alive would suggest that his Knight didnt break Oaths.

At other hand, " but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine." Words of Radiance, Chapter 38, page 20 " , what Skybreakers doing now is going even beyond subterfuge so maybe it was them.
 

I missed it, or is that from talk between Nale and two journeyman Skybreakers?

If Shardbearer mean ability to summon shardblade then it would be from third Oath as thats when spren can transform into weapon.
Shallan at end of WoR is one step higher then Kaladin, which probably mean 4th Oath so she should be higher rank

Given that the initiates are capable of using Surgebinding, I think it's safe to say this was the order that remained; the Stormfather seemed rather miffed about being bonded again so I doubt the Bondsmiths did not break their oaths.

The relevant quote regarding Radiant rank is here:

Quote

“Your excuses do not befit those who would join our order,” Darkness was saying. “If you would earn the trust of your spren, and take the step from initiate to Shardbearer, you must dedicate yourselves. You must prove your worth. Earlier today I followed a lead that each of you missed, and have discovered a second offender in the city.”

And Shallan is on her third oath (or truth, the way the Lightweavers do it). She has said the 'life before death' part which isn't binding, and two truths: That she killed her father and that the Davar family was in part, destroyed by her. So, three.

We haven't seen anyone with four, unless Helaran managed to get there. But I have my doubts, given that his Shardblade or Plate wasn't noted to have glown...

[Kanrei]

4 minutes ago, Vindicator said:

Given that the initiates are capable of using Surgebinding, I think it's safe to say this was the order that remained; the Stormfather seemed rather miffed about being bonded again so I doubt the Bondsmiths did not break their oaths.

One can Surgebind after initial Oath, Lift, Kaladin had access to basics of both Surges even before they spoke second Oath, so its not safe to assume only based on that.

Like I said, both Skybreakers in Edgedancers seems to be new ones, first or second Oath. If Skybreakers Order survived I suspect that Nale would have some more experienced Radiant with him, not two green novices.

Stormfather was well miffed because he saw what happened at Recreance Day - whole population of sprens died. He is afraid that it happen again and that this time he will die. That was reason too why he tried to prevent Syl from bonding Kaladin.

6 minutes ago, Vindicator said:

And Shallan is on her third oath (or truth, the way the Lightweavers do it). She has said the 'life before death' part which isn't binding, and two truths: That she killed her father and that the Davar family was in part, destroyed by her. So, three.

We haven't seen anyone with four, unless Helaran managed to get there. But I have my doubts, given that his Shardblade or Plate wasn't noted to have glown...

Kaladin spoke third Oath and there is WoB confirming that Shallan is one step higher then him in progression, thats why Im assuming she in Lightweaver equivalent of 4th Oath. She had ability ot summon Patern as weapon for whole WoR - that mean third Oath level, last truth put her farther on progression. Unless Lightweavers truths count differently she would be 4th now. Plus I think Shallan generally progressed farther from all known Radiants but regressed because of her repressed memories but she definitly was on third Oath level long before Kaladin.

About Helaran, we dont even know if he bonded spren, we only know he was looking Skybreakers, which could mean anything rly.
And Amaram is using shardblade which we assume belonged to Helaran (if that was him who died at Kaladins hand) which mean its blade from dead spren. If Radiant just died without breaking Oaths spren is alive and I guess just pushed back into Cognitive Realm, so there is no spren body as blade left behind.

[Vindicator]

19 minutes ago, Kanrei said:

One can Surgebind after initial Oath, Lift, Kaladin had access to basics of both Surges even before they spoke second Oath, so its not safe to assume only based on that.

Like I said, both Skybreakers in Edgedancers seems to be new ones, first or second Oath. If Skybreakers Order survived I suspect that Nale would have some more experienced Radiant with him, not two green novices.

Stormfather was well miffed because he saw what happened at Recreance Day - whole population of sprens died. He is afraid that it happen again and that this time he will die. That was reason too why he tried to prevent Syl from bonding Kaladin.

Given that Nale would have hunted down any Surgebinder - Skybreaker or not - that were not under him, I highly doubt it can be any but the Skybreakers. There's also the Honorblade a Herald recovered; since Nale Surgebinds, and can fly it's likely he who recovered his own Blade. I do not see it being any other Radiant order. The original Skybreakers likely died out over the years, and I think Nale is simply the sort who prefers to have as little Surgebinders as possible. He wouldn't have killed the ones after the Desolation, but I figure he has no interest in swelling their numbers overmuch. And even if that is not true I think we have yet to see all the Skybreakers. There may well be full-fledged Radiants under Nale.

Given that the Stormfather mentions not wanting to be killed, I don't think this is likely. You say the Bondsmiths would not break their oaths. What about the Skybreakers, whose Second Words are literally 'I will uphold the law before all else' according to WoB? Seems a lot more likely. 

Quote

Kaladin spoke third Oath and there is WoB confirming that Shallan is one step higher then him in progression, thats why Im assuming she in Lightweaver equivalent of 4th Oath. She had ability ot summon Patern as weapon for whole WoR - that mean third Oath level, last truth put her farther on progression. Unless Lightweavers truths count differently she would be 4th now. Plus I think Shallan generally progressed farther from all known Radiants but regressed because of her repressed memories but she definitly was on third Oath level long before Kaladin.

About Helaran, we dont even know if he bonded spren, we only know he was looking Skybreakers, which could mean anything rly.
And Amaram is using shardblade which we assume belonged to Helaran (if that was him who died at Kaladins hand) which mean its blade from dead spren. If Radiant just died without breaking Oaths spren is alive and I guess just pushed back into Cognitive Realm, so there is no spren body as blade left behind.

Is this WoB pre or post-WoR? Because in the novels she has only given two 'truths', the same amount as Kaladin's oaths. I don't think it's likely she's progressed beyond that, even if she can summon Pattern. 

As for Helaran, agreed. Like I said, I have my doubts as to whether he really was a Radiant, given the lack of glowing from either Blade or Plate. Which means I have further doubts about him meeting the Skybreakers.

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Vindicator

[Kanrei]

35 minutes ago, Vindicator said:

Given that the Stormfather mentions not wanting to be killed, I don't think this is likely. You say the Bondsmiths would not break their oaths. What about the Skybreakers, whose Second Words are literally 'I will uphold the law before all else' according to WoB? Seems a lot more likely.

Its not that Im sure, I just said that my own theory was that it was Bondsmiths for reasons I stated before but that theory I made before I knew how crazy about following code are Skybreakers. I assumed that this orginal Bondsmiths died of old age, and after that their sprens didnt bond anyone new.

I agree that with what we know about Skybreakers from Edgedancer they seem more likly to keep Oaths.
I was just pointing that we have no definitive answer yet even with new informations.

And I agree with you that Nale is in possession of his Honorblade as only Skybreakers and Windrunners had access to Gravitation surge, and Windrunners Honorblade is in Urithiru.
Like I said before, there seems to be contradiction between Nale's belief that Radiants can cause Desolation and him keeping Surgebinders around. because of this contradiction, I assumed that its recent development, when he saw how far Kaladin, Shallan progressed and that he realized that he wont be able to kill them alone as easly as 13 year old girl, so he got backup.

I think we will get answer about that from Jasnash time in Shadesmar, because sprens of that single Order survived so they were only one with knowledge. What we know so far again seems to support your theory about Skybreakers, because Jasnash mention Highsprens as source of her informations when she was in Shadesmar.
 

35 minutes ago, Vindicator said:

Is this WoB pre or post-WoR? Because in the novels she has only given two 'truths', the same amount as Kaladin's oaths. I don't think it's likely she's progressed beyond that, even if she can summon Pattern. 

WoB was post-WoR I belive, below is secondary source, I originally saw it somewhere else but dont remember where now

There are some problems with Shallan when it come to her progression. First and most obvious one is that Lightweavers have no specific oaths except first so its all relative.

Second and more important is that Shallan progressed a lot in past, I assume at last up to third Oath equivalent, but then regressed because of repressed memories. In addition her own beliefs messed things too - for example she didnt need 10 heartbeats to summon Patern as weapon, but she believed that she need so he acted like dead blades in that regard.

So progression of Shallan which we see in WoK and WoR is in fact in big part rediscovery for her not first time progression like for Kaladin. My guess is that this is reason why number of truths we saw dont match her Oaths equivalent number.
 

BTW did you notice that we Lift, when she spoke third Ideal/Oath of Edgedancers there was no cool effect like for Kaladin? I guess in Kaladin case it was so spectacular because of restoration of his bond, but still I was hoping there will be some visual effect for Lift.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Kanrei

[Vindicator]

8 minutes ago, Kanrei said:

Like I said before, there seems to be contradiction between Nale's belief that Radiants can cause Desolation and him keeping Surgebinders around. because of this contradiction, I assumed that its recent development, when he saw how far Kaladin, Shallan progressed and that he wont be able to kill them alone, so he got backup.

I think it's because Ishar lied to him; of all the Heralds it seems he understands the Oathpact the best. Consider this from TWoK:

Quote

“Leave your sword,” Jezrien said.
“What?”
Jezrien nodded to the ring of weapons. “I was chosen to wait for you. We weren’t certain if you had survived. A…a decision has been made. It is time for the Oathpact to end.”
Kalak felt a sharp stab of horror. “What will that do?”
“Ishar believes that so long as there is one of us still bound to the Oathpact, it may be enough. There is a chance we might end the cycle of Desolations.”

Since he was patron of the Bondsmiths, it would make sense that he knew far more of it than the other Heralds ever did. This would explain why Nale was keeping his own Surgebinders around while killing others; if he thinks it's tied to the amount of Radiants around, then it would be sensible to keep the ones he's the leader of alive, while cutting down the others that aren't, as Skybreakers follow the law.

8 minutes ago, Kanrei said:

WoB was post-WoR I belive, below is secondary source, I originally saw it somewhere else but dont remember where now

There are some problems with Shallan when it come to her progression. First and most obvious one is that Lightweavers have no specific oaths except first so its all relative.

Second and more important is that Shallan progressed a lot in past, I assume at last up to third Oath equivalent, but then regressed because of repressed memories. In addition her own beliefs messed things too - for example she didnt need 10 heartbeats to summon Patern as weapon, but she believed that she need so he acted like dead blades in that regard.

So progression of Shallan which we see in WoK and WoR is in fact in big part rediscovery for her not first time progression like for Kaladin. My guess is that this is reason why number of truths we saw dont match her Oaths equivalent number.

I will concede this then, although it is strange that Shallan is a step above. But yes, the regression could explain it...

9 minutes ago, Kanrei said:

BTW did you notice that we Lift, when she spoke third Ideal/Oath of Edgedancers there was no cool effect like for Kaladin? I guess in Kaladin case it was so spectacular because of restoration of his bond, but still I was hoping there will be some visual effect for Lift.

I did, and yes that could explain it - when Kaladin swears the second oath in TWoK, he does not have an explosion of Stormlight:

Quote

Kaladin hit the rocky ledge, legs suddenly strong, mind, body, and blood alive with energy. He fell into a crouch, spear under his arm, a small ring of Stormlight expanding from him in a wave, pushed down to the stones by his fall. Stunned, the Parshendi shied away, eyes widening, song faltering.

The Stormlight that comes out of him is implied to be the one he sucked out from the gemstones the Parshendi had. So yes, it does seem to be a more subtle initiation than WoR's scene. 

[Argent]

Man, I am hours behind the first readers, and already I feel like I am falling behind on the discussions!

I'll need to go over my notes for details, but off the top of my (hyped) head:

• I feel really smug for guessing Lift's second Ideal pretty much exactly way way before she said it. I had guessed it would be something like "I will listen to those are unheard" - all this talk about her listening felt a bit heavyhanded, and thus - obvious.
• The art piece for the novella looks great. I was having some difficulty imagining how these... cities in troughs we've heard about would like, so I am glad this settles it. I also think it's a really neat idea to hire all the available Shardblades and cut a new city. It's very much a thing that adds flavor to the world.
• I hope Wyndle never stops grumbling.
• Wyndle was supposed to bond with Ym, that was neat! 
• Seeing a Dysian Aimian - and the one who likely wrote the back cover blurbs of the first two Stormlight books no less - was a nice treat. I can see how some people might've not been enthusiastic about creatures like this walking the earth, and so would've scoured Aimia. 
• Did anyone pick on who Tashi might be? Nale speaks like he knows him. 
•  

[Vindicator]

27 minutes ago, Argent said:

Man, I am hours behind the first readers, and already I feel like I am falling behind on the discussions!

I'll need to go over my notes for details, but off the top of my (hyped) head:

• I feel really smug for guessing Lift's second Ideal pretty much exactly way way before she said it. I had guessed it would be something like "I will listen to those are unheard" - all this talk about her listening felt a bit heavyhanded, and thus - obvious.
• The art piece for the novella looks great. I was having some difficulty imagining how these... cities in troughs we've heard about would like, so I am glad this settles it. I also think it's a really neat idea to hire all the available Shardblades and cut a new city. It's very much a thing that adds flavor to the world.
• I hope Wyndle never stops grumbling.
• Wyndle was supposed to bond with Ym, that was neat! 
• Seeing a Dysian Aimian - and the one who likely wrote the back cover blurbs of the first two Stormlight books no less - was a nice treat. I can see how some people might've not been enthusiastic about creatures like this walking the earth, and so would've scoured Aimia. 
• Did anyone pick on who Tashi might be? Nale speaks like he knows him. 
•  

That city looks like the Shattered Plains, coincidentally. There's even a Stormseat analogue in the very middle. I'm not sure the Aimian we saw was the one who wrote it; he did say the other Sleepless were more interested in Kaladin, Shallan, Szeth and Dalinar instead of Lift, while he thought differently. Tashi sounds like a name for a Herald. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Vindicator

[Argent]

15 minutes ago, Vindicator said:

Tashi sounds like a name for a Herald. 

It's what I would've thought, but I can't match it.

[Blightsong]

8 minutes ago, Argent said:

It's what I would've thought, but I can't match it.

During the first book, when Kaladin has a vision of being a highstorm that rolls through a highstorm he sees a city that is cut into the ground. When he asked Sigzil about it later i think he said that they worshipped Jezrien. Maybe Tashi is the name they call him there.

[Argent]

Just now, Blightsong said:

During the first book, when Kaladin has a vision of being a highstorm that rolls through a highstorm he sees a city that is cut into the ground. When he asked Sigzil about it later i think he said that they worshipped Jezrien. Maybe Tashi is the name they call him there.

It's possible, but the Tashikki are both close to, and culturally influenced by the Azish - and the Azish call Jezrien Yaezir. Furthermore, when Lift is getting her reports of "strange" things happening around the city, one of the scribes reports a "man who says he saw the shape of Yaezir in the lichen on his wall." I find this a compelling argument for Tashi and Jezrien being different entities.

[WeiryWriter]

11 hours ago, BlackYeti said:

Regarding the secret societies of Roshar, we get a new one here: the Sleepless. This is on top of the Ghostbloods, the Sons of Honour, the Diagramists, the Skybreakers (whom it turns out actually are Skybreakers), the Envisagers, and the Seventeenth Shard! It sounds very much like this new lot are the people writing the blurbs for the Stormlight books; and are they all Dysian Aimians, or do they include the Siah as well? Either way, it seems that whenever a new character is introduced now, the question is not “does this person belong to a secret society?”, but rather “to which secret society does this person belong?” Okay, I may be exaggerating, but it is getting very crowded here nonetheless. It would indeed seem that the significant owl hoots in the night.

"The Sleepless" is actually the term Dysian Aimians use to refer to themselves, so I would say it is less a secret society and more a secretive species. Categorically all Sleepless would be Dysian Aimians then.

10 hours ago, Kanrei said:

whats going with Szeth and afterimage when he moves? I dont remember anything like that in WoK and WoR. Is it new thing about Szeth, possible because of his connection to Nightblood or is it something which Lift see because of her special status?

I'm thinking it has to do with Nightblood, who has some sort of color aura which is often forgotten about.

47 minutes ago, Argent said:

Did anyone pick on who Tashi might be? Nale speaks like he knows him.

He's definitely a Herald I think, my current guess is probably Ishar.

The bit about Ym was definitely unexpected and sadder than I thought it would be. As for Arclo, I'm very proud that I figured out he was a Dysian (after a couple minutes of "What is that thing" it was "OH MY HARMONY THAT'S A DYSIAN AIMIAN") I completely missed the connection to the back of book blurbs until Chaos pointed it out though.

 

[Argent]

6 minutes ago, WeiryWriter said:

He's definitely a Herald I think, my current guess is probably Ishar.

Ditto.

6 minutes ago, WeiryWriter said:

The bit about Ym was definitely unexpected and sadder than I thought it would be.

Ditto.

6 minutes ago, WeiryWriter said:

As for Arclo, I'm very proud that I figured out he was a Dysian (after a couple minutes of "What is that thing" it was "OH MY HARMONY THAT'S A DYSIAN AIMIAN")

Ditto.

6 minutes ago, WeiryWriter said:

I completely missed the connection to the back of book blurbs until Chaos pointed it out though.

Ditto.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

[BlackYeti]

2 minutes ago, WeiryWriter said:

"The Sleepless" is actually the term Dysian Aimians use to refer to themselves, so I would say it is less a secret society and more a secretive species. Categorically all Sleepless would be Dysian Aimians then.

Thanks for the correction! And to think that I was actually feeling good at having spotted that it was a Dysian Aimian, and that it was linked to the back covers of the books, then I jump to a conclusion and get something majorly wrong like that.

That being said, I actually think I like this part more now. It feels much less contrived this way.

[lookingglass]

I'm still reeling. I need time to gather my thoughts

Well now we know that Khriss is researcher at the University of Starlight. I always thought that she was just doing research for herself since she's been exiled.

Also we know what Lift wanted from the Nightwatcher... Not to change. But this doesn't explain why she gets stormlight from food or that she is partially in the cognitive realm. Any ideas?

[WeiryWriter]

4 minutes ago, lookingglass said:

Also we know what Lift wanted from the Nightwatcher... Not to change. But this doesn't explain why she gets stormlight from food or that she is partially in the cognitive realm. Any ideas?

I don't think it is meant to explain Lift's gifts. After all the Nightwatcher doesn't give you what you ask for, she gives you want she wants to give you.

[lookingglass]

24 minutes ago, WeiryWriter said:

I don't think it is meant to explain Lift's gifts. After all the Nightwatcher doesn't give you what you ask for, she gives you want she wants to give you.

She gives you what she thinks you deserve. Plus normally the curse is worse than the boon. What I mean is what was her boon really? What's the curse?