BrightVoid he/him Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 So while reading through another thread, zinc feruchemy (mental speed) was described as one being able to reason, calculate, and make intuitive leaps much better. Then it hit me: This is Taravangian every day. His "dumb" days are equivalent to storage of mental speed, and the day he wrote the diagram would be equivalent to tapping zinc in enormous proportions. So here is the question: can a zinc compounder covered in full metalminds make another "diagram"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirtuousTraveller he/him Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 I would think probably not. Zinc speeds up mental processes and would probably give the compounder the ability to "predict" the future based on the connections and processing of large amounts of information, but the compounder would actually need to have that knowledge already. The Diagram seems to be foresight into events of the future, not just educated guesses. Assuming the compounder had access to tons of information (via unkeyed copperminds perhaps?), then I would say the effects may be similar, but likely not the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 6 hours ago, BrightVoid said: So while reading through another thread, zinc feruchemy (mental speed) was described as one being able to reason, calculate, and make intuitive leaps much better. Then it hit me: This is Taravangian every day. His "dumb" days are equivalent to storage of mental speed, and the day he wrote the diagram would be equivalent to tapping zinc in enormous proportions. So here is the question: can a zinc compounder covered in full metalminds make another "diagram"? Remember Taravangian also seems to lose touch with his empathy on days when he's smarter, and gain empathy which seems to be above his baseline on days when he's dumber. That doesn't sound like how Zinc feruchemy works at all. This may or may not be a natural explanation for why his plan sets him against the Radiants, or there could be something fishier going on, like influence from certain Spren giving him ideas... 5 hours ago, VirtuousTraveller said: I would think probably not. Zinc speeds up mental processes and would probably give the compounder the ability to "predict" the future based on the connections and processing of large amounts of information, but the compounder would actually need to have that knowledge already. The Diagram seems to be foresight into events of the future, not just educated guesses. Assuming the compounder had access to tons of information (via unkeyed copperminds perhaps?), then I would say the effects may be similar, but likely not the same. There's no particular indication as to whether Taravangian is actually seeing the future or merely making logical predictions based upon greatly expanded understanding of the universe when he wrote the Diagram. I think unless Oathbringer gives us a lot more information about this process we're not really going to be able to draw solid conclusions on the matter until maybe Book 5 or later. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonorIsDead he/him Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 5 hours ago, Ari said: why his plan sets him against the Radiants, IIRC he isn't really against the radiants, they just happen to be undermining what he's trying to do, he heard the death rattles, figured out something terrible was going to happen and decided to unite the people of roshar, just in a very different way than dalinar, its a bit like how both Dalinar and sadeus want to protect Elokhar, they just have different opinions on how they should do this, leading to their disputes 5 hours ago, Ari said: whether Taravangian is actually seeing the future or merely making logical predictions I believe that hes seeing the future like preservation could, he uses his intelligence to see all the possibilities, then picks the one with the future that he likes best and follows up that by reasoning more and figuring out how to manipulate everybody/everything perfectly to create the version of the future he wants, hes not so much seeing the future as making educated guess' about it and shaping it through his actions that said, that's just my theory, we can't really know since IIRC the power came from the nightwatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 Funny you should ask this... Quote Q: Can tapping enough Feruchemical zinc allow one to match Taravangian's intellect on the day he created the Diagram? Or are the effects different somehow? A: The effects are similar, but not exactly the same. Zinc is speed of thought specifically--while what happens to Taravangian increases multiple types of intelligence, not just raw 'processing power' so to speak. Source 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 (edited) Interesting that the WoB that Argent provided seems to be implying that it is indeed just increased intelligence in multiples areas, versus him seeing the future as has been theorized. Unless seeing the future can be considered a type of intelligence, it seems to be more fair to say he just used logic and intuition to write the diagram. Edited November 21, 2016 by Spoolofwhool 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakoftheDeval Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 It's possible the nightwatcher used the same mechanism for his blessing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 On 19/11/2016 at 3:36 AM, HonorIsDead said: IIRC he isn't really against the radiants, they just happen to be undermining what he's trying to do, he heard the death rattles, figured out something terrible was going to happen and decided to unite the people of roshar, just in a very different way than dalinar, its a bit like how both Dalinar and sadeus want to protect Elokhar, they just have different opinions on how they should do this, leading to their disputes Taravangian wants to kill Dalinar specifically, and it seems Radiants in general. That's pretty much being "against" them by definition, lol, even if he has the same overall goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonorIsDead he/him Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 6 hours ago, Ari said: wants to kill Dalinar specifically i don't know about that, he tried to avoid killing dalinar, he wasn't on the original hit list and he still didn't want to after, but he found it necessary in the end I suppose however you are correct, they are against each other even with the same goal, I suppose I was basing what I said too much upon "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall he/him Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 Taravangian isn't directly antagonistic to the radiants per se... But the course he has set himself on puts him in opposition to them. The radiants are a force to be reckoned with, and Taravangian doesn't want competition. The diagram said to assassinate Dalinar expeditiously if he sued for peace, specifically because if Dalinar walked down this path he might stand in the way of Taravangian becoming king of everything. Because of this, technically Taravangian does "want to kill Dalinar specifically" to the extent that Dalinar specifically is dangerous to Taravangian. He may not have any personal grievance with Dalinar, nor is he in principle opposed to the presence of radiants... But he is opposed to them because he can't afford to have competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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