twicetested Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 I started to re-read Mistborn from start to finish since reading Secret History and something stood out that I have never heard anyone mention anywhere. At the end of the first book, after Vin is captured, the Inquisitor takes her to the Lord Ruler and tells her there is no point to her lying to him, he is god, yada yada. However the inquisitor states it, the Lord Ruler CAN tell when people are lying in that scene, yet I never hear anyone mention that part of his abilities. After reading through all the books, I believe he is tapping connection (he probably stores tons of the stuff so he doesn't feel bad when he murders everyone also). This is why he is able to understand Vin and her Father on such a level that they can't lie to him. What are thoughts? 5
A Secret Corner he/him Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 2 hours ago, twicetested said: I started to re-read Mistborn from start to finish since reading Secret History and something stood out that I have never heard anyone mention anywhere. At the end of the first book, after Vin is captured, the Inquisitor takes her to the Lord Ruler and tells her there is no point to her lying to him, he is god, yada yada. However the inquisitor states it, the Lord Ruler CAN tell when people are lying in that scene, yet I never hear anyone mention that part of his abilities. After reading through all the books, I believe he is tapping connection (he probably stores tons of the stuff so he doesn't feel bad when he murders everyone also). This is why he is able to understand Vin and her Father on such a level that they can't lie to him. What are thoughts? This would probably true, I wouldn't be surprised if he's been compounding that as well... By the way, would you like some cookies?
twicetested Posted November 9, 2016 Author Posted November 9, 2016 Yay, cookies!! The point of the post was to attempt to figure out what allowed the Lord Ruler to do such. Connection currently is poorly understood, so if this is an example of connection, it could help us notice things when looking into other parts of the Cosmere. Also, Brandon is very detail oriented. I'm sure he had the Lord Rule 'lie detect' like this for a reason. The Lord Ruler was capable of more than we currently understand and it helps if we can understand any part of what he can do, even little parts like this that have very little bearing on the story.
king of nowhere Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 I think with the mind speed and clarity of feruchemical zinc, and with tin flared to notice all the little details like dilatation of the eye capillary or such, you could get pretty good at discovering liars anyway. Living and dabbling in politics for 1000 years helps too.
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 Also, if he increased his hearing, he could listen to the heartbeats which would tell him if they were lying too.
Yata he/him Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 I want just to remember that to tap/store Connection you need a Duralluminmind and no "unknown metal" was found on his corpse....If they found a piece of Durallumin, Vin would have no need to made test with different metal to "discover" Durallumin. Actually Rashek in his long life may have become a good mentalist and as other pointed in the previous post, He may use Improved sense and improved Mind Speed to detect lies
Richard Kopelow he/him Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Yata said: I want just to remember that to tap/store Connection you need a Duralluminmind and no "unknown metal" was found on his corpse....If they found a piece of Durallumin, Vin would have no need to made test with different metal to "discover" Durallumin. You make a good point that he probably didn't have a Connection metalmind on him. Given that he was a full compounder and the amounts of ability that one can pull out of a metal mind in an instant, his senses and mental speed could have been heightened to an extreme. I think compounding tin and zinc (or using compounding to build up huge metal mind stores) would allow him to sense any minute changes in someone's body as well as analyse that information well enough to detect lies.
Droughtbringer Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 7 hours ago, twicetested said: I started to re-read Mistborn from start to finish since reading Secret History and something stood out that I have never heard anyone mention anywhere. At the end of the first book, after Vin is captured, the Inquisitor takes her to the Lord Ruler and tells her there is no point to her lying to him, he is god, yada yada. However the inquisitor states it, the Lord Ruler CAN tell when people are lying in that scene, yet I never hear anyone mention that part of his abilities. After reading through all the books, I believe he is tapping connection (he probably stores tons of the stuff so he doesn't feel bad when he murders everyone also). This is why he is able to understand Vin and her Father on such a level that they can't lie to him. What are thoughts? From the Mistborn Adventure game, Alloy of Law Expansion if you are a Tineye Misting you can get the trait: Combine this with fact that he could have stored Smell Sight and Hearing in a TinMind, massive amounts thanks to compounding, he could easily use this ability to tell whether or not you are, in fact, lying.
Eki Posted November 10, 2016 Posted November 10, 2016 The Final Empire Annotations, chapter 36: Quote I figured it would make sense that the Lord Ruler would be so old, so experienced, and so powerful that he wouldn’t be able to be lied to. He’s been around people for centuries and centuries. It’s very hard to fool him. So as other people have already suggested, it seems like it's not necessarily magical. He's just met a lot of liars.
goody153 Posted November 10, 2016 Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) My assumption has always been because he's freaking 1024 years old and lives in a society where facade and careful interaction is like key to society. So he's probably really really good at telling whether people are lying or not. I mean it's like being around with kids where you can tell whether they are under tension or hiding something. If it's about magical abilities then it's practically just soothing, he's probably the best soother in history.(not just in terms of power) Edited November 10, 2016 by goody153
The One Who Connects he/him Posted November 11, 2016 Posted November 11, 2016 On 11/10/2016 at 6:47 AM, Eki said: So as other people have already suggested, it seems like it's not necessarily magical. He's just met a lot of liars. Why not both? F-Tin boosted sight and hearing to notice those little details, a horde of liars to have those details(and the more obvious ones), and 1,000 years to hone it down to a science, etc.. [Have it and not need it] is always better Assuming he can F-Gold heal through the nausea from sight compounding, he could avoid the issues for hearing too, thus reducing outside distractions as well
Eki Posted November 11, 2016 Posted November 11, 2016 21 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said: Why not both? F-Tin boosted sight and hearing to notice those little details, a horde of liars to have those details(and the more obvious ones), and 1,000 years to hone it down to a science, etc.. [Have it and not need it] is always better Assuming he can F-Gold heal through the nausea from sight compounding, he could avoid the issues for hearing too, thus reducing outside distractions as well Could be, that's why I wrote "not necessarily". My guess is he doesn't need it, but who knows.
cometaryorbit Posted November 11, 2016 Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) On 11/10/2016 at 6:47 AM, Eki said: The Final Empire Annotations, chapter 36: So as other people have already suggested, it seems like it's not necessarily magical. He's just met a lot of liars. Well it does say "and so powerful", so there's likely a magical component. Probably super-strong Allomantic tin or compounded Feruchemical tin plus centuries of experience in interpreting what little, subtle tells mean. EDIT: I agree that while TLR knew about the extra metals, he probably didn't have any Feruchemical metalminds outside the known ten on his person at the time of his death, or Vin/Elend/Sazed & co. would have noticed. (WoA says they found and sold the atiumminds Vin removed, so it's very unlikely they wouldn't have thought of checking his body for others.) Which implies to me his huge Allomantic strength was natural, not Nicrosil Compounding. Edited November 11, 2016 by cometaryorbit other metals
Dragon314 he/him Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 I'd like to point out that his exact words were : "You.. lie. You're unsure". I think it would take more than enhanced senses to distinguish between the two.
The One Who Connects he/him Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 41 minutes ago, Dragon314 said: I'd like to point out that his exact words were : "You.. lie. You're unsure". I think it would take more than enhanced senses to distinguish between the two. Might not be the point you mean, but uncertainty is, in a way, a lack of confidence in what you are saying. Given his nature as the "Immortal God-Emperor" or somesuch, I figure he's had experience dealing with people who have nervousness in their voice. I imagine it would be more noticeable coming from one so usually confidant in himself, given how Tevidian talks to the Inquisitors 1
Savanorn he/him Posted November 22, 2016 Posted November 22, 2016 14 hours ago, Dragon314 said: I'd like to point out that his exact words were : "You.. lie. You're unsure". I think it would take more than enhanced senses to distinguish between the two. Really? I'd actually think the opposite. Kinda like... 14 hours ago, The One Who Connects said: Might not be the point you mean, but uncertainty is, in a way, a lack of confidence in what you are saying. Given his nature as the "Immortal God-Emperor" or somesuch, I figure he's had experience dealing with people who have nervousness in their voice. I imagine it would be more noticeable coming from one so usually confidant in himself, given how Tevidian talks to the Inquisitors +1 But yeah, if Tevidian acted entirely differently, if he was still authoritative and confidant, and TLR could just...know...that would be one thing. But he pales, and for all we know he changes his tone of voice. Things TLR could see, especially with access to both Allomantic tin and Feruchemical tin.
+Lewis Nethur He/Him Posted November 24, 2016 Posted November 24, 2016 The Lord ruler could riot and soothe better than anyone. he probably just rioted the emotions like earnestness and desire to please, while soothing his victims desire for self preservation and fear of punishment, which would result in a tremendously magnified physiological response from a person if they lied. Heart rate, blood pressure, pupil response, shakiness of tone, flushing, or twitching are all involuntary ticks that can indicate lying, albeit with dubious accuracy under normal circumstances. if you can wildly manipulate and control a person's brain chemistry to amplify these things though, and increase your power of perception to super human levels, it's totally reasonable to expect you could detect lies. a 1000 years of practice probably helps too... 1
Savanorn he/him Posted November 25, 2016 Posted November 25, 2016 2 hours ago, hwiles said: The Lord ruler could riot and soothe better than anyone. he probably just rioted the emotions like earnestness and desire to please, while soothing his victims desire for self preservation and fear of punishment, which would result in a tremendously magnified physiological response from a person if they lied. Heart rate, blood pressure, pupil response, shakiness of tone, flushing, or twitching are all involuntary ticks that can indicate lying, albeit with dubious accuracy under normal circumstances. if you can wildly manipulate and control a person's brain chemistry to amplify these things though, and increase your power of perception to super human levels, it's totally reasonable to expect you could detect lies. a 1000 years of practice probably helps too... Hmm. An explanation reliant on Soothing or Rioting would seem out of place based on Tevidian's behavior. Don't get me wrong, you could do what you're saying, but I don't think that's what Rashek did.
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