Farnsworth Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Scadrial is unique in that investiture is transmitted by genes, rather than by aptitude for that sort of investiture. It seems rather unfair when compared to Forging which is taught, becoming an Elantris person which is determined by devotion to something, and radiants, which is determined by being broken. Allomancy seems almost like an aristocracy. Why did preservation and ruin decide on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brgst13 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I think this is part of Ruin's design. By using transmission through genes, the power will dissipate over time. Ruin can be perceived as entropy personified, which is consistent with genetic transmission. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 They didn't, probably. Magics aren't designed by their shards. They're more a result of the interactions between a shard and a planet (and sometimes other shards as well). In the case of Allomancy, Scadrians having a piece of Preservation in them seems to be behind the ability to use magic. Preservation can affect that to some extent, as we saw in the force snapping, Sazed changing how snapping works, and lerasium. But the underlying mechanics; that this extra connection to Preservation should allow people to use magic, and the way it is inherited... Preservation probably didn't have anything to do with that. Same goes for Feruchemy, except we know less about what's actually behind that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 It's not just allomancy and feruchemy. A number of systems require specific spiritual DNA heritage in order to function. For instance, someone who does not have the spiritual genes for awakening could not go to Nalthis and just start awakening the moment they have breath. On Sel, heritage is also related to how the Dor can be manipulated, be it through AonDor, Soul Forgery, Dakhor, ChayShanan and Bloodsealing . In any case, as Eki said magic systems are not designed. They're more interactions between a shard's investiture and the nature of a planet, so small-scale nuances of the magic system are unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 7 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said: It's not just allomancy and feruchemy. A number of systems require specific spiritual DNA heritage in order to function. For instance, someone who does not have the spiritual genes for awakening could not go to Nalthis and just start awakening the moment they have breath. On Sel, heritage is also related to how the Dor can be manipulated, be it through AonDor, Soul Forgery, Dakhor, ChayShanan and Bloodsealing . Do we know that? I know it has to do with what country you're from, but is it established whether that's heritage or birthplace? (If a group of Fjorden immigrants moved to MaiPon, could their descendants learn to Forge?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 9 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: Do we know that? I know it has to do with what country you're from, but is it established whether that's heritage or birthplace? (If a group of Fjorden immigrants moved to MaiPon, could their descendants learn to Forge?) True, we don't know for certain. However, both Raoden and Galadon's opinion on the matter seem to be that you needed to be of Aonic descent in order to be visited by the Shaod. While their opinions obviously aren't that well informed, I think they would know enough. Passage: Quote The man shook his head. "I'm Galladon, from the sovereign realm of Duladel. I'm most recently from Elantris, land of sludge, insanity, and eternal perdition. Nice to meet you." "Duladel?" Raoden said. "But the Shaod only affects people from Arelon." He picked himself up, brushing away pieces of wood in various stages of decomposition, grimacing at the pain in his stubbed toe. He was covered with slime, and the raw stench of Elantris now rose from him as well. "Duladel is of mixed blood, sule. Arelish, Fjordell, Teoish—you'll find them all. I- - Elantris, Chapter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 8 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said: For instance, someone who does not have the spiritual genes for awakening could not go to Nalthis and just start awakening the moment they have breath. I'll still argue the nature of Brandon's "anyone can Awaken if they get the Breath" but that's mostly because of the odd context in which it was said. However, that does not specifically relate to this post, and I will not start a debate in another thread after how little got done last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 42 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said: True, we don't know for certain. However, both Raoden and Galadon's opinion on the matter seem to be that you needed to be of Aonic descent in order to be visited by the Shaod. While their opinions obviously aren't that well informed, I think they would know enough. I dunno... Considering the Aonic peoples immigrated to the area (to find the abandoned Elantris), and it took a few decades before the Shaod started happening... It sounds more like Connection to me. It might be hard to judge. Most people who move there probably interbreed fairly quickly, so their descendants are part Aonic anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Also, Hrathen made use of a certain potion brewer (name of Forten, IIRC) who he specifically noted was feigning his devotion to Jaddeth, but was too useful to really punish for lack of piety/loyalty. Since these potions did things like mimic the Shaod for exactly five days, that implies that Forten's potions were a magic system all their own. And since Hrathen can think of no one more loyal who might make these potions for him, that means that either Forten hasn't tried to teach it to others (small chance of that with Shu-Dereth superiors potentially breathing down his neck) or that his teachings have failed to take. Also, there's a WoB about spren-like entities congealing out of the Dor and Connecting to peoples of various nations, but I'm not certain how to find it and I need to get up early tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 It's been confirmed that Forten's potions are yet another variant of Selish magic. (I KNOW I read that; finding where though...) I believe Sandmastery may have a genetic component as well, but that is unconfirmed and more an indication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeskarKomrk Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 20 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: It's been confirmed that Forten's potions are yet another variant of Selish magic. (I KNOW I read that; finding where though...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Thanks! I'm horrible at finding these things a second time. Where was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeskarKomrk Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 10 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: Thanks! I'm horrible at finding these things a second time. Where was it? It was a twitter question, I found a link to it on the Coppermind page about Forton. I usually check Coppermind before trying Theoryland or anything else as it's likely someone has already done the work for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Good idea. I'll try that in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 On 10/25/2016 at 7:21 AM, Spoolofwhool said: True, we don't know for certain. However, both Raoden and Galadon's opinion on the matter seem to be that you needed to be of Aonic descent in order to be visited by the Shaod. While their opinions obviously aren't that well informed, I think they would know enough. Passage: I don't think that quote really helps narrow it down, though. Raoden just says "people from Arelon", which could mean birthplace or heritage, and I don't see how Galladon could know that Duladel people can be chosen because they have blood descent from Arelon as opposed to cultural heritage from Arelon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 5 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: I don't think that quote really helps narrow it down, though. Raoden just says "people from Arelon", which could mean birthplace or heritage, and I don't see how Galladon could know that Duladel people can be chosen because they have blood descent from Arelon as opposed to cultural heritage from Arelon. Yeah, true. I forgot that the current inhabitants of Arelon aren't even native either, so that disproves the point further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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