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Mid-Range Game 17: Hic Sunt Leones


Amanuensis

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3 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

That was one of the reasons I debated with myself for a while before doing this, yes. Having someone else reveal about halfway through the cycle would've been a smarter play. But... I'm not doing this for strategy. I'm doing it for fun. This kind of thing is memorable. This is what you tell stories about, later. And that's worth more than doing the optimum strategy, in my opinion. 

The only thing I would say about this is that now no one else will really do anything this cycle.  While the memorable, cool RP reveal is good, what are other people going to do this cycle?  I mean, there will always be some discussion, which is what this post is mainly going to be for/about, but I kind of wish you had waited, although it doesn't make a lot of sense strategy-wise.  

On another note, I was actually pretty suspicious of you earlier, and this just made up for it.  Nice work, btw.

Ok, I'm going to list most of my suspicions here, as well as put up some plans.  Elbereth should probably get some protection tonight, as well.

  1. I'm a little suspicious of Rae, even though she did help kill an Elim, it seemed a little like putting a vote on a fellow Elim to put distance between you and them, plus, later, she basically just announced suspicions and RP'ed, right until the end where she noted that she would like to call off the duel, because no one had really defended Bugsy.  Plus, it would have been difficult to jump off him without looking suspicious after so many people agreed with her, and a few even jumped on.
  2. Jondesu, I would say, I have a bit of a bad read on, mostly because he's only posted RP, and then made a slightly odd vote, but I'm willing to say that's just because he's new here, and say the same for the gut read.
  3. Bard and Lopen have both been pretty quiet, but I'm not sure what to make of that, but Rae is one of the people who thought Lopen was acting suspicious.  Again, not sure.
  4. I have a really good read on Doc.  Obviously, he basically built the plan that caught us Wonko, and it was revealed by Bugsy, another known elim.
  5. Elbereth, obviously good, as long as Wonko proves to really be an Elim, which looks likely.
  6. Everyone else is mostly on the grey scale.  I'm not sure what to make of the shear magnitude of the RP in this game, so that's confusing me a bit.

Right.  That's about all I have to say on my suspicions for now.  Discuss away.

Hopefully I'll be able to get some RP up later.  I wasn't on most of this morning 'cause I was taking the PSAT, which, if you're wondering, went well.

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15 minutes ago, Magestar said:

The only thing I would say about this is that now no one else will really do anything this cycle.

I mentioned this in my post earlier and tried to start some discussion.

So like, yeah, we should definitely still talk about game stuff guys.

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We should kill Wonko with an ionblade so we can still maintain the threat of a lynch to force discussion. @Elbereth, we can decide who kills Wonko privately. Do you want to send the PM, or should I?

I trust Doc because of the speed at which he started asking for Julii to contact him. If he was an eliminator, he probably wouldn't have had enough time to create a plan, sabotage it, and start asking for volunteers. Thus, Doc is probably a villager.

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Lucius had waited for hours for Tiberius to show up.  He didn't.  Later, when he had gone down to see how Kavax was doing, he had found instead a nurse telling him to go to a graveyard.  Needless to say, Lucius was not in a good mood.   Sevro had been found to be a Foresworn, of all things, and now Sanis was being challenged to a duel for the same reasons.  Lucius shook his head, disgusted.   The very thought was repulsive.  He couldn't beleive that of Sanis.  Sanis was cold, cruel, and calculating, but a Foresworn?  It just seemed so... wrong.   He wasn't a Rath, after all, and Golds should have more honor than that.  

However.  The Gold calling Sanis' honor into question was presenting facts.  Facts that were hard to ignore, especially with Sanis looking as pale as he did.  Lucius growled.  How could this have happened?  How could our magnificent Society be falling apart?  He let his eyes scan the room, hopping from person to person.   Lumina, Jackal, Quintus, Rylos.  On and on through the crowd.  Moments like this, they were almost enough to make one lose his faith in humanity.  Lucius barked a laugh.  What little he had, anyway.  Power, greed, envy.  Were these all that motivated men?  Was there nothing more?  Lucius was motivated by duty.  He had hoped, in younger days, that there was more, but he had been in too many wars to hope anymore.

"Lumina."  Lucius said, hesitant.  He steeled himself.  He shook his head.  "Do what needs to be done."  

With that, he turned, and faded into the crowd.


Well, that came out rather nicely.  I felt like RPing my cheer for Elbereth out, and that happened.  Nice.

Also, I would like to note that I now have 17 Merit.  I started with 5, and no items.  (Beyond the PM thing and the whisperGem.)   An interesting note;  Someone bought a holoBox last night.   Not sure who.

Just now, Arraenae said:

We should kill Wonko with an ionblade so we can still maintain the threat of a lynch to force discussion. @Elbereth, we can decide who kills Wonko privately. Do you want to send the PM, or should I?

This is actually a pretty good idea.  It's another bonus to the Julii plan, which is working out pretty well.    I would agree with it more if someone would come up with a good other person to lynch.  I don't have strong enough reads on anyone to suggest someone off my original list, which isn't really strong enough for me to use my Duel yet, anyway.   Another thing that has drawn my attention is that Assassin still has not responded to Sheeps summons even though he has been on since it happened.  I know this is a bit tired by now,  but Assassin has a history of avoiding attention by staying quiet.  It could just be his playstyle, but I would like it if he contributed a bit more.  Same for all the innactives.

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With Wonko a confirmed Forsworn, I too think that the best option is to use an IonBlade on him. We have to kill Wonko so he doesn't steal any of our IonBlades back. Either we have to lynch him or kill him, and I personally would rather we have as few vigilante kills going on as possible.

That said, I'm not cheering this cycle, since I don't want the duel to happen.

What we need now is a new target for the lynch. I hate to propose mayoring, but seeing as Wonko got an IonBlade, and El and Doc have both been more active than him, I'd trust any lynch target that El or Doc provide.

 

@Dankness Ascendant Sorry for the delay.

Khazad wandered into the War Room late, as usual. The death of the Forsworn lancer had left an empty seat at the table, and to avoid disturbing his usual neighbors he sat at the empty seat.

I say, is that Pierce?

Khazad looked across the table, and it indeed was his old friend.

"Hey Pierce, I haven't seen you in weeks. When did you get here?"

Pierce looked at Khazad incredulously, positively exuding disapproval in Khazad's skill at observing. He had probably been here all this time, but Khazad had just never noticed. Lateness and haste do that to a guy.

Khazad looked awkwardly away, but accidentally made eye contact with Lumina. That was a mistake. Khazad had only done that three times before, one of which had led to a very one-sided duel indeed. Khazad did not wish to repeat that experience.

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...So. We could change the target of the lynch, yes. We could lynch someone else and kill Wonko with an ionBlade. And that would be fine. But if we did so, Wonko could use his role power and any items he possesses, to help benefit his team.

If we lynch him, on the other hand, he cannot do any of that due to where the lynch falls in the order of actions. So I highly suggest we do that. 

Alternate suggestion to the ionBlade-Wonko plan: everyone proposes targets for Rae's and my ionBlade as an alternative lynch. (I can't promise that I will follow that suggestion if I have a different opinion, but in general I'll probably accede to the will of the majority.) That seems like a much better idea. (I'm actually a little more suspicious of Rae for suggesting this, in fact, although the fact that she initiated Bugsy's duel still holds a fair amount of weight.)

Corollary to the above: I retract my request for Wonko to be roleblocked, since we shouldn't actually need to. There's no action he can take before the duel. 

Also, I'm amused by the fact that despite the fact that Aman says that everyone is on time to the war room meeting, not one person excepting myself has actually been on time. :P 

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46 minutes ago, Elenion said:

With Wonko a confirmed Forsworn, I too think that the best option is to use an IonBlade on him. We have to kill Wonko so he doesn't steal any of our IonBlades back. Either we have to lynch him or kill him, and I personally would rather we have as few vigilante kills going on as possible.

That said, I'm not cheering this cycle, since I don't want the duel to happen.

What we need now is a new target for the lynch. I hate to propose mayoring, but seeing as Wonko got an IonBlade, and El and Doc have both been more active than him, I'd trust any lynch target that El or Doc provide.

 

Len, even if you trust that El and Doc are village, that does not make them right in every single situation. Every villager makes mistakes. Having other people trust them doesn't suddenly make their eliminator-hunting skills skyrocket. 

EDIT: I volunteer my ionblade to be the secondary lynch, then. I don't trust myself to kill a Foresworn and not a villager.

Edited by Arraenae
clarified stuff and added more things
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You know, Wonko... You know what would have made me trust you? What would have made me stand and defend you against Elbereth?

Why, if you've simply told me "I have an Ionblade." Not "i don't have any items to trade",  or "I don't want to trade away my datapad".  If you had told me that you started with an Ionblade, and Elbereth stole it, I would have believed you and defended you. 

But you didn't, and that was your downfall. The moment Elbereth revealed she had your Blade, I realized that you had not been entirely honest with me. Sure, I understand why you didn't. But I was just saying, if you had wanted someone to defend you, you made some mistakes. 

On the lynch/Ionblade discussion, I say we lynch Wonko. As stated by Elbereth, duelling comes before House actions In the Order of Actions, so duelling him effectively blocks him. I believe the same thing happened yesterday with Bugsy, having been intercepted by Rae's duel before he had a chance to make a kill with the Ionblade, which is why there were no deaths today. 

I also like the idea of a secondary lynch. Of course, while the Blade wielders answer first to themselves, and might not even kill the targets we ask them to,  this generates more discussion. We caught a forsworn today. Brilliant. That does not mean that we can sit back and relax for a cycle. No. Wonko has already confirmed all our suspicions of him, and Elbereth looks all set to dispatch him with a duel (looking forward to that RP battle btw). Assume Wonko has already gone, and let's start looking for the next traitor.

Some reads I have, based on last cycle's voting patterns. Bard and Jondesu tried to redirect the duel to Straw, and Darkness tried to duel Living Legend. Magestar seemed to agree with the duel on Bugsy, but has reserved his cheer on both cycles now. Rae I trust for now, even though she seemed a little uncertain right at the end. But she has been transparent so far, and I trust her

 Elenion pointed out an interesting thing I missed. This early in the game, only those who started with items would have any items, except for the person who bought the holocam yesterday.  We can keep watching the shop to see if any objects are bought. That way we can keep track of the number of bought Ionblades circulating among the players, or see of anyone has bought pulseshields, ghostcloaks or fleshmasks. 

RP might come later, perhaps after Wonko posts his rp response to El. 

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Although I hate setting a precedence of amending rules in the middle of a game, I feel that making this change is worth it, both in regards to balance and fun. There's a particular reason why I did not include an alignment-scanner role, and as it stands, the current OoA not only makes the Julii one, but an exceptionally efficient one (unless the eliminators stop posting / start reducing their posts, which I believe should never be encouraged or forced by the mechanics of a game). Additionally, having Julii as early in the OoA as I did effectively made them an Item block, which significantly lessens the purpose of jamFields and stunFists. Therefore Julii will now be going after all kills and before Purchases.

New Flow

holoCamAccusation FabiiCheer → Duel → jamFieldghostCloak fleshMask → stunFistTelemanusionBlade Lune JuliiholoBox Purchases

Edited by Amanuensis
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3 hours ago, Arraenae said:

Len, even if you trust that El and Doc are village, that does not make them right in every single situation. Every villager makes mistakes. Having other people trust them doesn't suddenly make their eliminator-hunting skills skyrocket. 

EDIT: I volunteer my ionblade to be the secondary lynch, then. I don't trust myself to kill a Foresworn and not a villager.

Yes! Thank you, Rae. Confirmed good does not mean confirmed right. Ever. Just because you can trust that Doctor or I don't have any intent of misleading you doesn't mean we'll be right about our suspicions. You know you're confirmed good too, after all, Len. So how are we any better than you for picking a lynch target? 

Also, note that I at least am not sure whether I'll actually use the ionBlade this cycle. I'm deliberately going to keep that uncertain because the Forsworn can only have so many roleblocks, and since (if we lynch Wonko) I can be certain that it's not getting stolen immediately. So there's not much reason for having to use it immediately when I might have much stronger suspicions in a couple of cycles. 

9 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

 

Although I hate setting a precedence of amending rules in the middle of a game, I feel that making this change is worth it, both in regards to balance and fun. There's a particular reason why I did not include an alignment-scanner role, and as it stands, the current OoA not only makes the Julii one, but an exceptionally efficient one (unless the eliminators stop posting / start reducing their posts, which I believe should never be encouraged or forced by the mechanics of a game). Additionally, having Julii as early in the OoA as I did effectively made them an Item block, which significantly lessens the purpose of jamFields and stunFists. Therefore Julii will now be going after all kills and before Purchases.

New Flow

holoCamAccusation FabiiCheer → Duel → jamFieldghostCloak fleshMask → stunFistTelemanusionBlade Lune JuliiholoBox Purchases

Hmm. Pity, that. So Julii essentially cannot steal the eliminator kill. But we did get one eliminator out of it, which is as much as I'd hope for anyway. We shall just have to stick to more old-fashioned tactics for the rest. :P 

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Eleven hours passed between Elbereth's initial vote on Wonko and Wonko's response. In that time, nobody defended Wonko. Even Wonko didn't defend Wonko. Nobody even suggested that he had started with an ionblade. That is the second Foresworn who has been discovered where nobody tried to defend them. The second Foresworn with an ionblade, too.

Wonko had voted for Bugsy, which meant that either:

1. Wonko didn't know Bugsy was Foresworn. Lack of coordination prevented Bugsy from being saved by the Foresworn.

2. Wonko was bussing Bugsy, which requires coordination. The Foresworn must pick someone to buss, which requires that they know at least one person's identity.

3. Wonko knew Bugsy was Foresworn but didn't see a way to save him, and decided to vote on him to gain a bit of trust.

I'll be using the ionblade I got from Bugsy as a second lynch. Vote in purple and retract in highlight. Minimum of three votes needed for a lynch.

Burnt, you haven't posted very much game discussion in a while, and we know that the other Foresworn had less merit than Bugsy and/or Wonko. It's about 5 PM in your area, yes? Much more conducive to thinking than 3 AM in the morning. I know you're good with PMs, but you can only get merit to make them with if you post.

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2 hours ago, Elbereth said:

You know you're confirmed good too, after all, Len.

I don't know where the strawman fallacy happened, but I can guarantee that it happened. I have neither claimed to be cleared nor been actually cleared. Where did you get this? :huh:

3 hours ago, Doctor12 said:

 Elenion pointed out an interesting thing I missed. This early in the game, only those who started with items would have any items, except for the person who bought the holocam yesterday.  We can keep watching the shop to see if any objects are bought. That way we can keep track of the number of bought Ionblades circulating among the players, or see of anyone has bought pulseshields, ghostcloaks or fleshmasks. 

Not sure where I said this either, but it sounds like a good plan. :D

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Pierce sighed, this just kept getting better an better. Accusation after accusation resonated around the war-room. Nyanah had just accused Burnt for not contributing to the discussion, and keeping up suspicious contacts. 

----------------

You know what, screw it Burnt, I don't know why you still haven't contributed, surely it's still not 3AM over there. But you said you would try to post today

Quote

Ill try post something tomorrow.... if i remember >.> 

Forgetting does sound like a bad excuse soz. And you portray yourself as a prankster, not sure if that's just your character being childish, or pretending to be childish to hide something more sinister.

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35 minutes ago, Arraenae said:

Eleven hours passed between Elbereth's initial vote on Wonko and Wonko's response. In that time, nobody defended Wonko. Even Wonko didn't defend Wonko. Nobody even suggested that he had started with an ionblade. That is the second Foresworn who has been discovered where nobody tried to defend them. The second Foresworn with an ionblade, too.

Wonko had voted for Bugsy, which meant that either:

1. Wonko didn't know Bugsy was Foresworn. Lack of coordination prevented Bugsy from being saved by the Foresworn.

2. Wonko was bussing Bugsy, which requires coordination. The Foresworn must pick someone to buss, which requires that they know at least one person's identity.

3. Wonko knew Bugsy was Foresworn but didn't see a way to save him, and decided to vote on him to gain a bit of trust.

I'll be using the ionblade I got from Bugsy as a second lynch. Vote in purple and retract in highlight. Minimum of three votes needed for a lynch.

Burnt, you haven't posted very much game discussion in a while, and we know that the other Foresworn had less merit than Bugsy and/or Wonko. It's about 5 PM in your area, yes? Much more conducive to thinking than 3 AM in the morning. I know you're good with PMs, but you can only get merit to make them with if you post.

2:40pm actually. And I've been out all morning. And my merit from rp has been sufficient for funding my pms *shrug* not that ive done much. Ive only got 2 pm open, and i only started one of those myself. I have 11 merit currently.

9 minutes ago, Dankness Ascendant said:

Pierce sighed, this just kept getting better an better. Accusation after accusation resonated around the war-room. Nyanah had just accused Burnt for not contributing to the discussion, and keeping up suspicious contacts. 

----------------

You know what, screw it Burnt, I don't know why you still haven't contributed, surely it's still not 3AM over there. But you said you would try to post today

Forgetting does sound like a bad excuse soz. And you portray yourself as a prankster, not sure if that's just your character being childish, or pretending to be childish to hide something more sinister.

*shrugs* its my character being childish- its due to her backstory. But, believe what you want. 

Yea i know its a bad excuse but its the truth. I do admit I've been super quiet this game though... much more than i normally am for sure. Like seriously. Only 2 pms? Me. Only having 2 pms. Like. What. I think I’ve played so many limited/no pm games recently that I'm just used to not pming or something, idk. Or im not focused. Idk. *shrugs*

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Because it appears that the lynch is actually happening after all, Elbereth.

RP:

Khazad leaned back in his seat in the War Room. Around him, accusations and debates flew like maelstroms, but for the most part Khazad had tried to stay out of the worst of it. Cheer who the majority cheered for, suspect who the majority suspected, listen to whom the majority listened to.

You should probably get more involved in the action.

"Put my neck out there to get chopped in half? No thanks."

Better to try to help than sit there at night waiting for an assassin to show up.

"Better to be killed while sleeping than while speaking."

Better to stay alive.

"Fair point."


I think that in all of the Elim!Wonko chaos we forgot to analyze the lynch on Bugsy (except for @Doctor12; kudos to him). With Bugsy's lynch being far from a last-minute decision, I think that the elims would have jumped on the bus-wagon in order to avoid suspicion. Clear evidence of this is Wonko. Assuming that Wonko instructed his Forsworn contacts to vote with him, chances are that there is at least one other Forsworn who voted on Bugsy. I don't have a read on who, yet, but if there are others who share my suspicions I may look into that more.

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2 hours ago, Elenion said:

I don't know where the strawman fallacy happened, but I can guarantee that it happened. I have neither claimed to be cleared nor been actually cleared. Where did you get this? :huh:

Not sure where I said this either, but it sounds like a good plan. :D

No, that's not what I'm saying. I don't know that you're cleared. No one does, except you. Assuming you're not Forsworn, you know for a fact that you are a villager and can trust your own instinct. Thus, your choice of who to lynch is every bit as valid as Doctor's or mine. This goes for every person in the game (with the exception of the Forsworn, of course). From your perspective, you are confirmed good. So don't rely on me or Doctor to pick a lynch target. We're no more right than you. 

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7 hours ago, Dankness Ascendant said:

Although seriously, do u want to RP or na? @Elbereth and @Elenion

In my first post on page 2 I started an RP with your character. You must have missed it.

8 hours ago, Elbereth said:

No, that's not what I'm saying. I don't know that you're cleared. No one does, except you. Assuming you're not Forsworn, you know for a fact that you are a villager and can trust your own instinct. Thus, your choice of who to lynch is every bit as valid as Doctor's or mine. This goes for every person in the game (with the exception of the Forsworn, of course). From your perspective, you are confirmed good. So don't rely on me or Doctor to pick a lynch target. We're no more right than you. 

Good to know. My voting logic keeps going in circles: are Stick and Sheep elims because they voted along with Wonko? Are Bard and Jondesu elims because they didn't vote on Bugsy? Are the non-voters elims because they did not take sides? I've got nothing.

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Oh yay. Elenion posted. When i started typing this i thought i was gonna end up double posting...

So, since you guys don't wanna let me lurk in peace like usual, i may as well babble and ramble while i avoid homework (>>). So. As Lopen has said, I'm hardly known for being a player who's active in discussion. Most games i only post once per cycle. If you're lucky. So. Thread silence isn't unusual for me. Pm silence is, but i plan to fix that. I've got 11 merit to burn through. May as well use that to start pms.

To be honest I'm pondering a public role claim. Why? Partly as a sign of good faith i guess. Also partly cause that's something i've not really tried before. I should get more comfortable speaking up in thread. I should try and focus more on the game mechanics and discussion rather than just chatting and writing stories.  I should try something new, purely because it is new, to me. But I don’t. So why haven't I? Because i might be a eliminator trying to hide from the public. Well i tell you right now, if that were the case then why am i not more talkative as a villager.  I'll tell you why.

Because it is my playstyle.  I lurk. I observe. I note. I pass my notes to a more analytic player. They parse the data and deal with suspicions. I am a player who stands back, avoids getting too involved where i can. And this does not change whether i may be evil or good. (Well, of course that depends on the role of course, but, still. I'm generally pretty consistent.).

I do think my playstyle needs to start to change more. I have been playing for over a year now, yet I still get anxious about posting any thoughts in the thread. Yes that’s right. Posting in thread scares me. It always has. And if i wasn’t always so nervous of making mistakes in thread, well, perhaps i would be more active in discussion.

I guess what i’m trying to say though is, guys, this is normal for me. And sometimes i get a little frustrated that the majority of games I play my play style is often the primary reason for any suspicion on me. Sure, I have earnt that suspicion but still. You guys can keep telling me to be more active in discussion. You often do. It's just not...me.

And...heh...thing is with me, sometimes i do go to add to discussion, but then i panic and just...Don’t. Yes panic. I don’t like posting anything I’m not sure about. At all. I don’t even like voting for people if i’m not sure about them.

Hmph. Anyways, i’m not sure how necessary this rant is. But. You guys wanted me to post more so, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tbh part of me is already going “dude this post is just going to make people think you are trying too hard to get rid of suspicion. Why bother even post this?” So… I should probably add some actual discussion points to this as well :P

Part of me feels like Rae is just trigger happy when it comes to me, which i honestly don’t blame her for.

But, how about i do one of my old traditions.  Percentage liiiist~ :D

 

Percentage list:

0%=good, 50%=¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (or i can't remember and can’t be bothered thinking), 100%=Kill them now

1- Darkness Ascendant -52% *shrugs* RP only...Like me, come to think of it...

2. Daniyah -48% *shrugs* Rp only. Like me, come to think of it :P Well no. I’m discussing! See look. this is discussion post stuff right here :P

3. Assassin in Burgundy -48%

4. Magestar -50%

5. Wonko-100% He’s about to be dead :D Like, dead! Hopefully! RIP! Or not. I still want that RP battle, storm it

6. Jondesu -50%

7. AliasSheep -45%

8. I_am_a_Stick -55%

9. Livinglegend - 50%

10. Bugsy6912- He deaded. Pretty spectacularly too. Like, no one needs to lose their head over how dead he is but… he’s pretty dead. Can I say I laughed my head off? No? :P

11. The_Lady_of_Chaos -46%

12  Elenion - 47%

13.The Young Bard -50%

14. TheMightyLopen-.....51%.....well….61%...no...52%....mm. Yea. bout there. I’m…. uncertain. I feel a read on you building up already, but, i don’t trust my read currently :P I feel my own quietness has been messing with my ability to read you but………

15. Doc -20% Great guy. Good rp. Good chatting. Posts more than i do (surprise). Also the only one to open a pm with me soo (yay! Awesomeness!)…. He gets special treatment for being nice :P Also seems pretty village to me so….

16. Arraenae - 60% Just… gut really, and i’m often twitchy about those who point pointy objects in my general direction :P Though really. You’re probably village. I’m bouncing rapidly between 40% and 60% tbh.  *shrugs* whatever. 48%..... Fiiine,  43%.......40%. Be nice and you’ll get 39% :Pmaybe…

17. Elbereth -23%

18. Straw -50%

19. Jefry -50%

 

..... and thats what happens when i actually get around to posting discussion. Nice.

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