What if a koloss had feruchemy and/or allomancy?

[Conatus]

So The Lord Ruler was super powerful because he had both feruchemy and allomancy, right? Well, what if a koloss had both of those? The answer is that Chuck Norris was born.

[cloudjumper]

It might actually be possible... If you add some extra spikes to a Koloss then you might be able to do it.

[HonorIsDead]

28 minutes ago, cloudjumper said:

It might actually be possible... If you add some extra spikes to a Koloss then you might be able to do it.

yah but that doesn't mean it would be a good thing, especially since Koloss have the brain power and self control of a two year old, you would pretty much end up with a super powerful two year old, then again, they probably wouldn't be nearly smart enough to figure out how to use the powers, aside from the pewter which they would probably use by instinct, so it would more or less be the same I guess 

and yah, if you fed it Lerasium and them stuck some of Trells special spikes in him, it could very well be possible, though pointless and probably  dangerous

Edited August 14, 2016 by The_God_King

[cloudjumper]

1 minute ago, The_God_King said:

yah but that doesn't mean it would be a good thing, especially since Koloss have the brain power and self control of a two year old, you would pretty much end up with a super powerful two year old, then again, they probably wouldn't be nearly smart enough to figure out how to use the powers, aside from the pewter which they would probably use by instinct, so it would more or less be the same I guess 

If you reuse the same spikes over and over again in different Koloss, then you get more human Koloss, right? So a Koloss with much-reused spikes could do that and use feruchemy. However, reusing spikes lessens their strength. Still, they would retain most of their strength by the time they had enough brainpower to reason clearly.

[HonorIsDead]

4 minutes ago, cloudjumper said:

If you reuse the same spikes over and over again in different Koloss, then you get more human Koloss, right? So a Koloss with much-reused spikes could do that and use feruchemy. However, reusing spikes lessens their strength. Still, they would retain most of their strength by the time they had enough brainpower to reason clearly.

yah, but anyways what would the point be, the spikes the Koloss have simply steal the pewter ability, if you can already burn pewter, as would be granted by the allomancy, depending if they were mistborn (which i am assuming we are talking about) what the heck is the point of also being a Kolosss, finding pewter to burn is far easier than finding allomancers who can burn pewter to kill to give you the same strength

Edited August 14, 2016 by The_God_King

[cloudjumper]

Just now, The_God_King said:

yah, but anyways what would the point be, the spikes the Koloss have simply steal the pewter ability, if you can already burn pewter, as would be granted by the allomancy, depending if they were mistborn (which i am assuming we are talking about) what the heck is the point of also being a Kolosss, finding pewter to burn is far easier than finding allomancers with pewter to kill to give you the same strength

You mean the spikes the Koloss actually have? The spikes Koloss have grant physical strength, not pewter burning. Pewter burning requires different spikes in different places.

[HonorIsDead]

Just now, cloudjumper said:

You mean the spikes the Koloss actually have? The spikes Koloss have grant physical strength, not pewter burning. Pewter burning requires different spikes in different places.

i know that burning requires one of Trells special spikes, but no, i mean that they both grant you the same strength and endurance, the only diffrence if allomancers burn the metal where as people with spikes have the same power forever, however you need to kill an allomancer who can burn pewter first in order to make that spike, but if you were already an allomancer why not just burn pewter, its not expensive so why would you go to all that trouble just to get something you already have?

[DeTess]

27 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

i know that burning requires one of Trells special spikes, but no, i mean that they both grant you the same strength and endurance, the only diffrence if allomancers burn the metal where as people with spikes have the same power forever, however you need to kill an allomancer who can burn pewter first in order to make that spike, but if you were already an allomancer why not just burn pewter, its not expensive so why would you go to all that trouble just to get something you already have?

That's actually not how it works. The Koloss Spikes contain physical strength (not the ability to burn pewter), which can be taken from any human (misting or not). It is completely unrelated to allomantic or feruchemic pewter.

The inquisitors, on the other hand, did have spikes that allowed them to burn petwer, but they (probably)  didn't have the koloss physical strength spikes.

Edited August 14, 2016 by randuir

[HonorIsDead]

I said it wasn't the ability to burn pewter right in the part you quoted, I said it granted them the same strength and endurance that burning pewter does but they do it without the pewter, as for it just being normal people that may be right, I feel like its not, but I can't find proof either way

and no, I don't think the inquisitors actually burned the metals, that was a misconception made by people who didn't have any idea about allomantic spikes, the spikes they had granted them, much like the koloss, the power without having to burn metals, the advantage to that is they never run out of the power, the draw back though is that they can't flare it, other wise trells spikes wouldn't be such a big deal, if they all ready had spikes that could steal alomancy entirely there would be little point in Trells spikes that are such a big mystery in the 2nd/3rd arch of mistborn 

[Hemalurgist]

I am pretty sure inquisitors have to burn metals for one thing Marsh had a metal vial on him that Vin stole in Hero of Ages and this WoB 

QUESTION

So do Inquisitors, when they use Allomancy, have to actually ingest the metals?

BRANDON SANDERSON

They actually do. So what is happening is Hemalurgy rips off a piece of one person's soul and spikes it somebody else and so it is basically taking off the piece of someone's soul that makes them an Allomancer and adding it to someone else instead and so then they act as an Allomancer just as it would happen.

 

This WoB makes it seem to me that Inquistors have to burn metals just like any other Allomancer. 

[Shadeshadow227]

9 hours ago, The_God_King said:

I said it wasn't the ability to burn pewter right in the part you quoted, I said it granted them the same strength and endurance that burning pewter does but they do it without the pewter, as for it just being normal people that may be right, I feel like its not, but I can't find proof either way

and no, I don't think the inquisitors actually burned the metals, that was a misconception made by people who didn't have any idea about allomantic spikes, the spikes they had granted them, much like the koloss, the power without having to burn metals, the advantage to that is they never run out of the power, the draw back though is that they can't flare it, other wise trells spikes wouldn't be such a big deal, if they all ready had spikes that could steal alomancy entirely there would be little point in Trells spikes that are such a big mystery in the 2nd/3rd arch of mistborn 

Pretty sure you're confusing Kandra Blessings for Metallic Arts stolen via Hemalurgy. Check the Coppermind. The Blessings of Awareness, Potency, Stability, and...I can't remember the fourth one...all of them used spikes that stole human attributes, like senses, strength, emotional fortitude, and intelligence. Not any Metallic ability. They provided some of the effects of burning metals, because the effects are similar, but not identical, to Pewter and Tin. Tin and Pewter enhance your body and senses to past what a normal human is capable of, right? Basically adding to your physical capabilities. JUST LIKE HEMALURGY. Although it is done in different ways.

Pewter enhances strength. You have two people lifting an object, and a Thug lifting a copy of the same object. The Thug is burning Pewter, which, going off of how much he's burning, makes him twice as strong as a normal human. The two groups both accomplish the task easily. Now, let's say that a Hemalurgist and Thug attempt the same task. The Hemalurgist has one Iron spike, making him twice as strong as a normal person. They both easily accomplish the task. The Thug doing it through the strength boost from Pewter, and the Hemalurgist doing it through having the strength of two men...by stealing another's strength. 1+1=2. See what I'm getting at? They accomplished the task, but they did it using different sources of strength.

Tin enhances senses. Let's say that you have a maze. A Hemalurgist and a Tineye have to make it through while blindfolded. The Tineye burns Tin, at a rate which makes him eight times as sensitive to stimuli such as sound or touch. The Hemalurgist has seven Tin spikes, making him eight times as sensitive to stimuli as well. They both make it through the maze. Their enhanced senses they used to complete the task came from different sources. The Tineye using Allomancy, and the Hemalurgist stealing the senses of others and adding them to his own.

Also, Trell's spike was important because it gave Allomancy or Feruchemy to a Kandra, a creature of Hemalurgic origin. Mistwraiths can't have the Metallic Arts, and that carries over to their spiked counterparts. Trell broke that rule. That's why it was so important.

Please reread what Hemalurgy does, please.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Shadeshadow227
Spelling errors.

[Elenion]

First, what is this Trell who has the spikes? Is this from the second trilogy?

27 minutes ago, Shadeshadow227 said:

For you to completely misinterpret one of Brandon Sanderson's magic systems...shame on you...I hope this helped open your eyes a bit.

Please keep the insults to a minimum.

[Shadeshadow227]

3 hours ago, Elenion said:

Please keep the insults to a minimum.

Sorry. Let me just delete that part.

[HonorIsDead]

6 hours ago, Shadeshadow227 said:

Pewter enhances strength. You have two people lifting an object, and a Thug lifting a copy of the same object. The Thug is burning Pewter, which, going off of how much he's burning, makes him twice as strong as a normal human. The two groups both accomplish the task easily. Now, let's say that a Hemalurgist and Thug attempt the same task. The Hemalurgist has one Iron spike, making him twice as strong as a normal person. They both easily accomplish the task. The Thug doing it through the strength boost from Pewter, and the Hemalurgist doing it through having the strength of two men...by stealing another's strength. 1+1=2. See what I'm getting at? They accomplished the task, but they did it using different sources of strength

i'm not saying they are the same, not even close, what i'm saying is that if you can already burn pewter, what is the point of getting the hemalurgic spike? They both grant you amplified strength so why would you get both, the only real thing it would change would be to make you lose your capability to think and control yourself/emotions 

also forgive me for mistakes, I haven't read the books in like a year, and only read through them once to begin with, i'm trying to get around to rereading them but I've been caught up reading Department 19: Darkest night

6 hours ago, Elenion said:

First, what is this Trell who has the spikes? Is this from the second trilogy?

WARNING: Bands of Mourning spoiler

yes they are second arch so hold off on reading the spoiler if you haven't read it

Spoiler

trell is a god that we assume is a shard, but don't really have any clue at this point because he hasn't actually entered a storeline yet, though he was mentioned on both Scadrial and Roshar

 the Trellium spikes, the red metal that have been used to steal stuff like feruchemy and allomancy, as done by Bleeder

 

10 hours ago, Hemalurgist said:

I am pretty sure inquisitors have to burn metals for one thing Marsh had a metal vial on him that Vin stole in Hero of Ages

You're right, that was my theory before Trellium

Edited August 15, 2016 by The_God_King

[Shadeshadow227]

2 hours ago, The_God_King said:

i'm not saying they are the same, not even close, what i'm saying is that if you can already burn pewter, what is the point of getting the hemalurgic spike? They both grant you amplified strength so why would you get both, the only real thing it would change would be to make you lose your capability to think and control yourself/emotions.

The Hemalurgically granted strength is permanent, until you lose the spike. Allomantic strength and Feruchemical strength are temporary, reliant on sources of finite power. Although Hemalurgically granted strength is more difficult to get...and you need knowledge of bind points to use Hemalurgy effectively.

[Rasarr]

11 hours ago, The_God_King said:

 

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trell is a god that we assume is a shard, but don't really have any clue at this point because he hasn't actually entered a storeline yet, though he was mentioned on both Scadrial and Roshar

 

Wait, where was Trell mentioned on Roshar?

[Kingsdaughter613]

Spoiler

I thought it was Scadrial and Taldain? Also fairly certain I saw a WoB that that is not a coincidence, or early edition weirdness and the two are connected...

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by Kingsdaughter613

[HonorIsDead]

23 hours ago, Rasarr said:

 

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Wait, where was Trell mentioned on Roshar?

 

Spoiler

 

I can't find a site that actually states it but i'm 99% certain there was a interlude in WoK where it is the people of salt lake and they have visitors, the visitors say something about them worshipping Trell and the guy whose POV its from flips out because you can't admit to worshipping Trell, the god of the stars in daytime hours when Nalt might hear and decide to smite you, it was the first time I heard about trell, but I brushed it off thinking they were just crazy people, then I discovered Cosmere was a thing and made the conection between the two. if you look for it i'm not sure where it is, I read the book a while ago, but its definetly in an interlude of WoK

never mind, its interlude one: ishikk, and its in the purelake, not salt lake

 

On ‎2016‎-‎08‎-‎15 at 9:27 AM, Shadeshadow227 said:

The Hemalurgically granted strength is permanent, until you lose the spike. Allomantic strength and Feruchemical strength are temporary, reliant on sources of finite power. Although Hemalurgically granted strength is more difficult to get...and you need knowledge of bind points to use Hemalurgy effectively.

yah I know, but like I was trying to say earlier, when every one misunderstood me, why bother with the spike, its way easier just to buy pewter if you are already an allomancer, and when you have both feruchemy and alomancy I would hardly consider it "finite" as demonstrated by the lord ruler, it is pretty damned close to being infinite

and sorry if that sounds like i'm messing stuff up again, as my teachers are fond of telling me, I can't explain my thinking worth a pile of bull....

Edited August 16, 2016 by The_God_King
fixing some info

[HonorIsDead]

12 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

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I thought it was Scadrial and Taldain? Also fairly certain I saw a WoB that that is not a coincidence, or early edition weirdness and the two are connected...

 

and maybe trell will show up there, but he didn't in the first book, I think he is gonna end up being a fairly big player for some reason and be seen on plenty of the worlds, kinda like odium

[Kingsdaughter613]

Umm... Can I PM you on that? It was a minor thing, just not a coincidence...

[HonorIsDead]

2 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Umm... Can I PM you on that? It was a minor thing, just not a coincidence...

me? sure

[Rasarr]

4 hours ago, The_God_King said:

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I can't find a site that actually states it but i'm 99% certain there was a interlude in WoK where it is the people of salt lake and they have visitors, the visitors say something about them worshipping Trell and the guy whose POV its from flips out because you can't admit to worshipping Trell, the god of the stars in daytime hours when Nalt might hear and decide to smite you, it was the first time I heard about trell, but I brushed it off thinking they were just crazy people, then I discovered Cosmere was a thing and made the conection between the two. if you look for it i'm not sure where it is, I read the book a while ago, but its definetly in an interlude of WoK

never mind, its interlude one: ishikk, and its in the purelake, not salt lake

 

 

I've just read through this entire interlude and it was about Vun Makak and Nu Ralik, not Trell and Nalt. Granted, there are theories that the two are the same, but we don't know for certain.

[HonorIsDead]

3 minutes ago, Rasarr said:

 

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I've just read through this entire interlude and it was about Vun Makak and Nu Ralik, not Trell and Nalt. Granted, there are theories that the two are the same, but we don't know for certain.

 

Spoiler

sorry then, I could have sworn it was Trell and Nalt, though how similar are the stories? are they almost the same? I tried checking the coppermind but they only have a single quote with them, still, while I suppose it isn't fact, and I was wrong before, it does sound a lot like trell and Nalt, one jealous brother who you have to pretend to worship while

secretly worshipping the other.

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by The_God_King

[Rasarr]

2 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

sorry then, I could have sworn it was Trell and Nalt, though how similar are the stories? are they almost the same?

No problem. As to your question, well, in both cases, we have two brothers (Vun Makak/Nu Ralik and Trell/Nalt), and in both, one of the brothers is jealous - you can't worship Nu Ralik directly, because Vun Makak will be jealous about it, and Nalt uses the sun to block out Trell's eyes (stars) because he's jealous about people worshipping him.  Otherwise, nothing, mostly because we know almost nothing about Purelaker faith to draw any more comparisons to Trelegeism. 

[HonorIsDead]

Spoiler

so them being the same people is a good theory, even if I came across it late and by accident while I was misinformed.... well, at least one of my theories seems likely now, I have like a 0.7% accuracy rate now XD

sorry for making you look for everything