Scadrian Wormhole FTL

[yafeshan]

I had this FTL idea since I read bands of mourning and secret history. My idea is based on feruchemy using machines similar to the one we saw in Bands of Mourning.

We need a iron compounding machine fueled by self burning metal. We need a lot of fuel to be effective because we want to create a singularity with great amount of mass. If machine can focus enough mass in a small area it should be able to collapse space time but we still need another exit for this method to be viable as wormhole. We create another singularity at the same time with 1 difference. It will be tied to a strong Connection filled machine which is filled in another planet. When machine starts to tap Connection during the creation moment of second singularity it should theoretically create the singularity near the target planet rather than the original planet. The Connection filing device should be taken to target planet through normal worldhoping ways and will be filled there and brought back before we attempt wormhole creation.

I think there should be some ways to stabilize wormhole and use it a stationary travel conduit between 2 planets.

[Argel]

5 hours ago, yafeshan said:

It will be tied to a strong Connection filled machine which is filled in another planet.

Wouldn't this destroy the planet?

[CaptainRyan]

3 hours ago, Argel said:

Wouldn't this destroy the planet?

I think @yafeshan means that you take the second device to the target planet, fill it with weight that has Connection to that planet, and then link the two devices via Connection as well. I do not think it meant to destroy the planet in any way.

[Argel]

I'm just trying to figure out how collapsing space/time does not destroy the planet in the process. A wormhole has two end points, so you would need a singularity on both sides. Or is the theory that the mass is not enough to be disruptive to the planet? 

[Oversleep]

1 hour ago, CaptainRyan said:

I think @yafeshan means that you take the second device to the target planet, fill it with weight that has Connection to that planet, and then link the two devices via Connection as well. I do not think it meant to destroy the planet in any way.

But a black hole would be quite dangerous to have near the planet, wouldn't it?

[CaptainRyan]

1 minute ago, Oversleep said:

But a black hole would be quite dangerous to have near the planet, wouldn't it?

I guess it really depends on the size of the black hole and how close it is to the planet. If the black hole is sufficiently small and sufficiently far away, then I doubt it would pose that great of a risk... I think?

[Oversleep]

I think we would run in the problem with iron itself. Even with Compounding, there are some hard limits on how much a metalmind can hold and how much you can Compound out of it...

[Vissy]

The object is small, right? Therefore the size and mass of the black hole is going to be so minimal that it probably will not have any effects on a planet. Quantum physics already posits that there exist countless numbers of micro black holes, none of which have any visible effect to us. Mind you, the size of these micro black holes would be extremely small - much smaller than a millimeter wide, for instance. Because even a coin-sized black hole (centimeter wide) would have equivalent mass to the Earth.

[Argel]

Talking about size with a black hole is fraught with peril. There are two types of black holes -- the ones we are sure exist formed from collapsing stars and ones smaller than protons called quantum black holes that may or may not exist and disappear almost as soon as being created (billionths of a second), so unusable for this assuming they exist. The regular type of black hole would begin consuming the planet, even if it starts off so small we could not see it.

[Yata]

Like Argel said the standard Black Hole would be dangerous for the near planets (or maybe the whole solar system) and probably beyond the Feruchemy possibility.

The Quantum ones will be useless for the FTL travel

[yafeshan]

21 hours ago, Argel said:

Wouldn't this destroy the planet?

A black hole size is very important. A mini black hole is no more dangerous than a normal space object with a same size. The only difference is black holes have an event horizon.

16 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

I guess it really depends on the size of the black hole and how close it is to the planet. If the black hole is sufficiently small and sufficiently far away, then I doubt it would pose that great of a risk... I think?

Exactly.

 

18 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

I think @yafeshan means that you take the second device to the target planet, fill it with weight that has Connection to that planet, and then link the two devices via Connection as well. I do not think it meant to destroy the planet in any way.

I guess the method you explain is more reasonable than mine. Connection tapping should be used to connect 2 ends of the wormhole during the creation.

 

17 hours ago, Oversleep said:

I think we would run in the problem with iron itself. Even with Compounding, there are some hard limits on how much a metalmind can hold and how much you can Compound out of it...

Black hole do not require infinite mass but it requires almost infinite density, A limited mass increase can still make a black hole within small enough size.

[Argel]

Let's start with a simple article that contradicts you:

Quote

A black hole with the same diameter as a nickel would slightly beat out Earth's mass of around 13 x 10^24 lbs (6 x 10^24 kg). Assuming it appeared in your pocket or wallet, its pull would impact everything from the entire planet to, potentially, objects in the Asteroid Belt. Even a black hole with the mass (not the diameter) of a nickel would have far-reaching effects. Though the black hole would be far, far smaller than an atom, it would release more energy than an atomic bomb as it radiated its mass away.

Source: https://curiosity.com/memes/if-you-had-a-black-hole-the-size-of-a-nickel-curiosity/?ref=ptm#meme-what-if-there-was-a-black-hole-in-your-pocket-kurzgesagt-in-a-nutshell

Edited August 6, 2016 by Argel

[Oversleep]

6 hours ago, yafeshan said:

Black hole do not require infinite mass but it requires almost infinite density, A limited mass increase can still make a black hole within small enough size.

And I did not mean that it requires infinite mass; but the amount of mass you'd need would be so great that you'd have problems even with constant Compounding.

And what @Argel said.

[yafeshan]

18 hours ago, Argel said:

Let's start with a simple article that contradicts you:

Source: https://curiosity.com/memes/if-you-had-a-black-hole-the-size-of-a-nickel-curiosity/?ref=ptm#meme-what-if-there-was-a-black-hole-in-your-pocket-kurzgesagt-in-a-nutshell

please check what nasa have to say about black holes

" Even if a black hole the same mass as the sun were to take the place of the sun, Earth still would not fall in. The black hole would have the same gravity as the sun. Earth and the other planets would orbit the black hole as they orbit the sun now. "

A black hole in a reasonable distance from earth would not suck everything.

http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/k-4/stories/nasa-knows/what-is-a-black-hole-k4.html

16 hours ago, Oversleep said:

And I did not mean that it requires infinite mass; but the amount of mass you'd need would be so great that you'd have problems even with constant Compounding.

We do not have clear information about the limits of compounding, human compounding may have limit because the compounder is living being, a machine however can do much more a human.

[Jondesu]

3 hours ago, yafeshan said:

 

21 hours ago, Argel said:

Let's start with a simple article that contradicts you:

Source: https://curiosity.com/memes/if-you-had-a-black-hole-the-size-of-a-nickel-curiosity/?ref=ptm#meme-what-if-there-was-a-black-hole-in-your-pocket-kurzgesagt-in-a-nutshell

please check what nasa have to say about black holes

" Even if a black hole the same mass as the sun were to take the place of the sun, Earth still would not fall in. The black hole would have the same gravity as the sun. Earth and the other planets would orbit the black hole as they orbit the sun now. "

A black hole in a reasonable distance from earth would not suck everything.

 

The trick is that a black hole with the same mass as the sun wouldn't be the same size as the sun.  It'd be tiny, comparatively.  Much smaller than the Earth, certainly, and probably smaller than a fruit (I don't know the math exactly).  If a quarter-sized black hole was anywhere near the Earth, we'd be screwed.

jW

[Argel]

Drastically altering the orbits would be extremely disruptive and might even destroy the planet, and certainly make it nearly unrecognizable (think lots of volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, etc).  And then there's the whole radiating its mass away problem that you overlooked:

23 hours ago, Argel said:

Though the black hole would be far, far smaller than an atom, it would release more energy than an atomic bomb as it radiated its mass away.

It doesn't matter if the end results are what you want if the steps to get there destroy or irreparably harm everything nearby (planet, solar system, etc.)

Edited August 7, 2016 by Argel

[yafeshan]

If there is gravity manipulating powers in cosmere like we saw, anything about it is possible with sufficient research. I remember Brandon confirming mass increase power as higgs field manipulation 

In our universe, black hole mass loosing radiation happens incredibly slowly btw.

Edited August 7, 2016 by yafeshan

[The Ninja Yodeler]

Yeah, I have to agree with Argel on this one. Even a small sized black hole placed anywhere near a planet, or solar system, would have severe effects. Even if its placed outside the solar system, over time it would alter the course of the planets orbits. Ever so slightly drawing them further from their stable orbits around the parent  star. Yes, eventually they may find a stable orbit again. Or they may have their orbits altered enough that its catastrophic for the planet(s). And Im not saying they will be drawn to the black hole until they're destroyed, but it will be a tug of war between the two masses.

But maybe Feruchemy can accomplish it. I wonder if a Feruchemist storing mass in orbit around Scadrial could, in a very minute way, draw the planet off its orbit. Like a little gravitation tug by a smaller object they theorize would, over time, draw an asteroid off course. Good post though Yafeshan.

Edited August 8, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler