Eshonai Alive?

[Storm she/her]

This has probably been brought up a million times already but I didn't find any topics (though I didn't look too hard). What about Eshonai? Do you think she is dead? Adolin pushed her to her death but do you think she would die that quickly? In the Stormlight Archive pocket guide, it didn't mention that she was dead or had fallen at all. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

She'll live. No way she died there. 

[KnightRadiant she/her]

She's supposed to have a PoV book, and her dying there would be a little anticlimactic. Unless she is the one with the dead PoV, she's still alive.

[Stick. she/her]

She was in her shardplate when she fell, right? Maybe it saved her from the fall

[Oversleep]

1 hour ago, I_am_a_Stick said:

She was in her shardplate when she fell, right? Maybe it saved her from the fall

Not only she was in Shardplate, but she also was in stormform and since it probably is one of the Voidbringer forms, it probably grants access to Stormlight (or whatever Voidbringers use). So it would take a lot more than a simple fall to kill her.

...

Now that I think about it, other stormforms were falling just like they should after run through with a sword, so I'm not sure about that Stormlight now.

[Pathfinder]

19 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Not only she was in Shardplate, but she also was in stormform and since it probably is one of the Voidbringer forms, it probably grants access to Stormlight (or whatever Voidbringers use). So it would take a lot more than a simple fall to kill her.

...

Now that I think about it, other stormforms were falling just like they should after run through with a sword, so I'm not sure about that Stormlight now.

Last WoB I heard regarding the subject is that we have not seen voidbinding yet, so stormform is not a voidbringer form. It is possibly a precursor to summon the storm that brings the actual voidbringer forms. 

[CalaCrisp88]

3 hours ago, KnightRadiant said:

She's supposed to have a PoV book, and her dying there would be a little anticlimactic. Unless she is the one with the dead PoV, she's still alive.

Wait, what's this about a dead PoV??

[Pathfinder]

59 minutes ago, 8giraffe8 said:

Wait, what's this about a dead PoV??

There is a WoB that state that just because a character has a PoV chapter, does not mean that character is either still alive, or will remain alive. So a character could die earlier in the series, but later on receive a PoV chapter. 

[WeiryWriter he/him]

3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Last WoB I heard regarding the subject is that we have not seen voidbinding yet, so stormform is not a voidbringer form. It is possibly a precursor to summon the storm that brings the actual voidbringer forms. 

We really can't say that? WoB is that we have not seen Voidbinding, i.e. the magic system, but listener forms are not a magic system they are a part of listener biology.

56 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

There is a WoB that state that just because a character has a PoV chapter, does not mean that character is either still alive, or will remain alive. So a character could die earlier in the series, but later on receive a PoV chapter. 

To be clear the WoB is that a character does not have to be alive to receive a flashback sequence.  Referring to that as simply "a PoV chapter" is potentially confusing to new members.

[Pathfinder]

1 minute ago, WeiryWriter said:

We really can't say that? WoB is that we have not seen Voidbinding, i.e. the magic system, but listener forms are not a magic system they are a part of listener biology.

To be clear the WoB is that a character does not have to be alive to receive a flashback sequence.  Referring to that as simply "a PoV chapter" is potentially confusing to new members.

to the first part i was responding to them being called voidbinding. on other planets the magic is an inherent part of the biology/ecology of the native life forms so i do not think that necessarily precludes it from being thought as "magical".

 

true, the terminology should have been more explicit. sorry about that!

[WeiryWriter he/him]

2 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

to the first part i was responding to them being called voidbinding. on other planets the magic is an inherent part of the biology/ecology of the native life forms so i do not think that necessarily precludes it from being thought as "magical".

The point I was trying to make is that there is a difference between "magic that is part of a formal magic system" and "magic that is part of nature". Yes the listener forms are "magical" but they are not a magic system. Formal magic systems (as far as we know) require the presence of a Shard (or Adonalsium) "magic that is part of nature" doesn't (see the Aviar of First of the Sun).

[Pathfinder]

1 minute ago, WeiryWriter said:

The point I was trying to make is that there is a difference between "magic that is part of a formal magic system" and "magic that is part of nature". Yes the listener forms are "magical" but they are not a magic system. Formal magic systems (as far as we know) require the presence of a Shard (or Adonalsium) "magic that is part of nature" doesn't (see the Aviar of First of the Sun).

Sorry I am still kind of lost as to your point. Are you adding information to support what I wrote that stormform is not voidbinding? Or are you saying because of it being part of the ecology, it is a voidform, but not voidbinding which explains why the WoB was worded the way it was? Not to sound rude but I do not understand how I was in error in what I referred to earlier. I am genuinely confused. 

[WeiryWriter he/him]

10 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Sorry I am still kind of lost as to your point. Are you adding information to support what I wrote that stormform is not voidbinding? Or are you saying because of it being part of the ecology, it is a voidform, but not voidbinding which explains why the WoB was worded the way it was? Not to sound rude but I do not understand how I was in error in what I referred to earlier. I am genuinely confused. 

My point is that stormform is a Voidbringer form despite it not being a part Voidbinding in response to you saying that stormform is not a Voidbringer form because we WoB saying we have not seen Voidbinding.

[Pathfinder]

2 minutes ago, WeiryWriter said:

My point is that stormform is a Voidbringer form despite it not being a part Voidbinding in response to you saying that stormform is not a Voidbringer form because we WoB saying we have not seen Voidbinding.

Gotcha, so it was the second one I said. That is where I got confused. Personally I still disagree, but I respect your opinion. Guess we will have to RAFO 

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Actually just remembered this but it's stated in chapter 89 of WoR that the stormform listeners are Voidbrigners:

Quote

THE EVERSTORM. IT IS A NEW THING, BUT OLD OF DESIGN. IT ROUNDS THE WORLD NOW, AND CARRIES WITH IT HIS SPREN. ANY OF THE OLD PEOPLE IT TOUCHES WILL TAKE ON THEIR NEW FORMS.

“Voidbringers.”

THAT IS ONE TERM FOR THEM.

 

[Pathfinder]

8 minutes ago, WeiryWriter said:

Actually just remembered this but it's stated in chapter 89 of WoR that the stormform listeners are Voidbrigners:

 

I read that differently. Stormform started the everstorm. You are assuming the parshmen that are going to be transformed by the everstorm are going to be transformed into stormform, and that by extension due to the quote means they are voidbringers. You leave out that the storm could transform the parshmen into the actual voidbringers which is of a different form than storm. Basically this time around, the stormform summons the storm, that transformed the existing parshmen into the voidbringers of old. In the end we just differ on interpretations. It is not conclusive for either view. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Pathfinder

[RYANHOME he/him]

THE EVERSTORM. IT IS A NEW THING, BUT OLD OF DESIGN. IT ROUNDS THE WORLD NOW, AND CARRIES WITH IT HIS SPREN.ANY OF THE OLD PEOPLE IT TOUCHES WILL TAKE ON THEIR NEW FORMS.

“Voidbringers.”

THAT IS ONE TERM FOR THEM

We know the original storm allows the Listeners to change forms; warrior, worker, breeder and so on. This's the OLD OF DESIGN part. The EVERSTORM carry  the red spren which should offer a different set of forms. Stormform being the only one we've seen so far.

[Radiant Returned he/him]

As far as the original question, Sanderson doesn't mind killing characters off, but it's when it comes to POV characters it always has a purpose and it has always been highly climactic. Eshonai dying there doesn't fulfill either of those. So I highly doubt she's dead. The only thing you accomplish by killer her there is ridding the story of the only Parshendi PoV character that you just spent a whole book building exactly for this purpose. Would take away from a lot of depth in Oathbringer and in future books. 

[Pathfinder]

17 hours ago, WeiryWriter said:

Actually just remembered this but it's stated in chapter 89 of WoR that the stormform listeners are Voidbrigners:

 

 

14 hours ago, RYANHOME said:

THE EVERSTORM. IT IS A NEW THING, BUT OLD OF DESIGN. IT ROUNDS THE WORLD NOW, AND CARRIES WITH IT HIS SPREN.ANY OF THE OLD PEOPLE IT TOUCHES WILL TAKE ON THEIR NEW FORMS.

“Voidbringers.”

THAT IS ONE TERM FOR THEM

We know the original storm allows the Listeners to change forms; warrior, worker, breeder and so on. This's the OLD OF DESIGN part. The EVERSTORM carry  the red spren which should offer a different set of forms. Stormform being the only one we've seen so far.

So then I have a question for you both. If we have not seen voidbinding, but according to you both we have seen voidbringers, because that is their ecology not their magic, then what is the shooting of lightning from their hands and summoning winds (both just in their hands, and the everstorm itself)? That is not magic? What would that be termed then? Brandon said we have not seen voidbinding yet, yet the individuals you both claim are the voidbringers did use magic. So what is that magic?

[WeiryWriter he/him]

To quote myself there is a difference between "magic that is part of a formal magic system" and "magic that is part of nature". Yes, stormforms "use magic" but that magic is not part of a formal magic system, it is a natural ability of that form.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

To quote myself there is a difference between "magic that is part of a formal magic system" and "magic that is part of nature". Yes, stormforms "use magic" but that magic is not part of a formal magic system, it is a natural ability of that form.

[Jondesu he/him]

I think another key point here is that we don't even know if Voidbringers are the ones who perform Voidbinding (unless there's a WoB I haven't seen).  Voidbinding could be what was used to lock away Odium, or it could be magic used by someone else other than the Voidbringers, or of course simply magic that we haven't seen them use yet.  If Voidbinding was part of just the magic of the Voidbringers, summoning the Everstorm would have likely counted as Voidbinding, but the WoB indicates that it is not.

As for Eshonai, I think it's almost certain she survived, between the added strength and resilience that Stormform seems to bring, the Shardplate, and possibly the control over the winds that Stormform also holds to a lesser degree (when she leaped the chasm after transforming, she described that it felt something like the wind swirling around her and pushing her, IIRC).

jW

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, WeiryWriter said:

To quote myself there is a difference between "magic that is part of a formal magic system" and "magic that is part of nature". Yes, stormforms "use magic" but that magic is not part of a formal magic system, it is a natural ability of that form.

Yet when Brandon changed Words of Radiance, he had Nale go from using a fabrial, to a surgebinding. That implies to me whether you use a surge via fabrial or radiant, it is still surgebinding. So a voidbringer using magic to me is voidbinding. If the stormform are voidbringers, then shooting lightning and summoning storms is voidbinding. Brandon said we have not seen voidbinding, so by that extension we have not seen the voidbringers, and by that extension the stormform are not voidbringers. The everstorm are changing them into voidbringers. They are not already. But as I said in the end we will have to agree to disagree and RAFO. 

[Elenion he/him]

16 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Yet when Brandon changed Words of Radiance, he had Nale go from using a fabrial, to a surgebinding. That implies to me whether you use a surge via fabrial or radiant, it is still surgebinding. So a voidbringer using magic to me is voidbinding. If the stormform are voidbringers, then shooting lightning and summoning storms is voidbinding. Brandon said we have not seen voidbinding, so by that extension we have not seen the voidbringers, and by that extension the stormform are not voidbringers. The everstorm are changing them into voidbringers. They are not already. But as I said in the end we will have to agree to disagree and RAFO. 

I think that the lightning doesn't count because it doesn't appear to be investiture-based. Voidbinding, I'd guess, is investiture from Odium, while the inherent abilities of stormform appear to come from the power of the spren itself.

And yes, I'm pretty sure that Eshonai is alive, because every Sanderson death has meaning (other than the peons, and nobody cares about them).

[Pathfinder]

17 minutes ago, Elenion said:

I think that the lightning doesn't count because it doesn't appear to be investiture-based. Voidbinding, I'd guess, is investiture from Odium, while the inherent abilities of stormform appear to come from the power of the spren itself.

And yes, I'm pretty sure that Eshonai is alive, because every Sanderson death has meaning (other than the peons, and nobody cares about them).

Problem is we have no information or evidence to show it isn't investiture based.