+Child of Hodor Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 We know from the second letter in Words of Radiance that Odium is trapped in the system he currently inhabits (Roshar). My theory is that Odium has invested in Roshar, specifically in the stone surface itself. The Shin stone shamans believe the stones are holy and should not be walked on. I think this is a perversion of an ancient truth: you don't walk on stone when the spren of your enemy can turn the stone underneath you into a giant rock monster (ThunderClast). Szeth notes that the stone shamans say it is OK to walk on the stone at Urithiru in the I-10 WoR interlude. Jasnah states that some stories claim Urithiru is protected from Voidbringers. My conclusion is that it is OK to walk on Urithiru stone because Voidspren can't bond with it and turn it into monsters. Chapter 6, Jasnah: Quote And then, there are storeis - ones I dare to believe - claiming that Urithiru was holy and protected from the Voidbringers. I-10, Szeth (in Urithiru): Quote The only place in the East where the stones were not cursed, where walking on them was allowed. This place was holy. Another reason I think Odium is invested in the stone is that certain spren associated with negative emotions like Angerspren, Painspren and Anticipationspren (associated with battle) all have red or orange colors and come out of the ground and stay connected to the ground. Unlike more positive spren like joy or glory spren that float around in the air (like honorspren). All these spren associated with pain, anger and battle are sprouting from Odium's investiture in the stone. From Coppermind Spren Entry: “ Vamah was watching them stand there, and his expression was as thunderous as a highstorm, angerspren boiling up from the ground around him like small pools of bubbling blood.” — The Way of Kings: Chapter Fifteen[35] “ Painspren swarmed the ground, like small orange hands or bits of sinew, reaching up from the ground amid the blood of the fallen.” — The Way of Kings: Chapter Forty-Seven[59] Anticipationspren: “ A few anticipationspren—like red streamers, growing from the ground and whipping in the wind—began to sprout from the rock and wave among the soldiers.” — The Way of Kings: Chapter Six[14] A common type of spren that appear around people looking forward to something. They appear as red streamers that grow out from the ground and blow in the wind. They often appear around soldiers directly before a battle.[14] Finally, when Tanavast appears to Dalinar in chapter 75 of WoK, Tanavast shows a dark stormwall approach and destroy all of the ground around Dalinar and Tanavast. Tanavast says "this is what he wants". Odium needs to free up his investiture in the stone surface of Roshar in order to leave the system fully powered up. http://www.tor.com/2014/05/15/the-way-of-kings-reread-chapters-74-and-75/ 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong he/him Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Part of investing in a planet is having the shards power permeate all things there, and we are certain he is invested on Braize so this hypothesis should be semi true there, but it isn't that he is invested in the stone, it's that he is invested in everything including the stone if that makes sense. As for the Spren coming out of the ground, I don't think this point is really relevant. There are Spren that aren't associated with negative emotions (Odium also doesn't encompass all negative emotions, just hate. There doesn't seem to be a correlation between Shardic Mandates and the types of Spren regardless) that still come from the ground. Think of Wyndle, who grows from the ground when following Lift. I would also like to point out that these Spren most likely sprout from the ground even when said ground isn't stone. Im pretty sure that in that scene Tanavast is referring to the destruction of Roshar, not the ground specifically being destroyed. Even if the ground was destroyed as seen in the vision we don't actually know if this would separate the investiture from the molecules that make up the stone. This theory was well put together, I like the quotes and examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 This idea really paints a different spin on the purpose of the Releasers/Dustbringers, and why Division is one of the Surges. I hadn't even thought of it like this before. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 It's an interesting idea, I'll say as much. Not very likely, I think, but possible. I like it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 19 hours ago, Child of Hodor said: .... The Shin stone shamans believe the stones are holy and should not be walked on. I think this is a perversion of an ancient truth: you don't walk on stone when the spren of your enemy can turn the stone underneath you into a giant rock monster (ThunderClast). .... A cool and well put together theory, but this quote alone won you my upvote. It sounds plausible and inline with how other religions have functioned in the Cosmere (grounded in true historical events, but sort of warped, twisted, or romanticized). An excellent insight I've never heard proposed before, well done! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What's a Seawolf? Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 When I first read the title I thought you meant Odium was invested/trapped in that black stone that Mr. T uses to control Szeth. If this theory is correct, maybe that plays into it as well? Either way, I love your theory. Makes sense both in the Stormlight Archive and the cosmere as a whole. And there HAS to be a reason for the Shin's treatment/reverence for stone. It could just be world building, but that sounds like too simple an explanation for Brandon/the cosmere, especially because Szeth, a Shin, seems to be one of the major characters in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Probably a long shot, but one of the most interesting theories I have read of late. It's really great to see someone come in with such a different perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War_Breaker he/him Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 Interesting theory, although I think the reason the Shin Shamans worship stone is because the only Herald remaining in Braize is Talenel, Stonesinew, Herald of Stone (or something, I don't have the book on me now, this is in one of the scribbles from the diagram). He is the one keeping the desolations at bay - it is upon his will that Roshar has been in relative peace for 4500 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 Nalan and Szeth say that Shin worship spirits of stones, spren of rocks. Szeth adds a line about "sun and stars". In the meantime he sees that non-Shins cannot be blasphemous for walking on stone as they don't have soil anywhere. I believe it's just a result of Shinovar having soil; by the way, on Roshar Shard's Investiture manifests primarily as spren and I doubt that every rock on Roshar is Invested (and just by one Shard, at that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 he/him Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Thunderclasts also kind of support this theory edit:oops didnt see the op's thunderclasts thing Edited July 2, 2016 by asterion137 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What's a Seawolf? Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Just to add a little more to this theory, during Taln's interlude in WoR, he states "Kalak will teach you to cast bronze, if you have forgotten this. We will Soulcast blocks of metal directly for you. I wish we could teach you steel, but casting is so much easier than forging, and you must have something we can produce quickly. Your stone tools will not serve against what is to come." Now in context that last line is innocent. But it could have deeper meaning. Especially the use of the word 'serve.' Stone tools would serve Odium, not the heralds and humanity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted July 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 On 7/2/2016 at 9:08 AM, War_Breaker said: Interesting theory, although I think the reason the Shin Shamans worship stone is because the only Herald remaining in Braize is Talenel, Stonesinew, Herald of Stone (or something, I don't have the book on me now, this is in one of the scribbles from the diagram). He is the one keeping the desolations at bay - it is upon his will that Roshar has been in relative peace for 4500 years. I hadn't thought about that. That's a great point, the Stone Shaman would be one of the few groups that know Talenel is the only herald that didn't abandon the oathpact. One other thematic connection to stone for Odium is that the Listeners are able to bond with his spren, which are red, and their skin is always described as black or white and "marbled" with red. Marble being a type of stone. Another instance of Odium's spren bonding with something with characteristics of stone. Listeners aren't made of stone (as far as we know ), but it's interesting that there is another reference to Odium's forces and stone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted July 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 On 7/2/2016 at 9:50 AM, Oversleep said: Nalan and Szeth say that Shin worship spirits of stones, spren of rocks. Szeth adds a line about "sun and stars". In the meantime he sees that non-Shins cannot be blasphemous for walking on stone as they don't have soil anywhere. I believe it's just a result of Shinovar having soil; by the way, on Roshar Shard's Investiture manifests primarily as spren and I doubt that every rock on Roshar is Invested (and just by one Shard, at that). That's true, Shin have "Soil Privilege". I think a lot of their culture and values are shaped by being cut off from the highstorms by the misted mountains. They are cutoff from Honor's influence and seem to be mostly under Cultivation's influence. Farmers (people who grow or cultivate life) are the best type of person and soldiers are just the worst thing ever. As Kaladin's oaths show, Honor clearly values soldiers to defend the defenseless and to stand up for what it is right. Although, they are very honorable in their trade dealings as shown in WoK Rysn interlude 4. Maybe not honorable, but dishonest in the opposite way one would expect a merchant to be dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galendo Posted July 7, 2016 Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 On 7/1/2016 at 7:49 AM, hwiles said: On 6/30/2016 at 0:38 PM, Child of Hodor said: .... The Shin stone shamans believe the stones are holy and should not be walked on. I think this is a perversion of an ancient truth: you don't walk on stone when the spren of your enemy can turn the stone underneath you into a giant rock monster (ThunderClast). .... A cool and well put together theory, but this quote alone won you my upvote. It sounds plausible and inline with how other religions have functioned in the Cosmere (grounded in true historical events, but sort of warped, twisted, or romanticized). An excellent insight I've never heard proposed before, well done! Huh. You know, this would also explain why the stones of Urithiru were safe to walk on. Because any ThunderClast who decided to show up in a city full of Radiants would have a lifetime measured in seconds, if that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaladin he/him Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 Can't think of where else to say it, but I searched on Bing define:odium and got the following: o·di·um [ˈōdēəm] NOUN general or widespread hatred or disgust directed toward someone as a result of their actions: "his job had made him the target of public hostility and odium" synonyms: disgust · abhorrence · repugnance · revulsion · loathing · [more] detestation · hatred · hate · obloquy · dislike · distaste · disfavor · antipathy · animosity · animus · enmity · hostility · contempt · disgrace · shame · opprobrium · discredit · dishonor Check out that last synonym! What better an opposite to Honor than Odium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts