Autonomy!

[goody153]

Makes sense though i don't feel like Honor is Odium's opposite. I don't think Odium opposite has showed up yet.

[teknopathetic]

1 hour ago, goody153 said:

Makes sense though i don't feel like Honor is Odium's opposite. I don't think Odium opposite has showed up yet.

You don't think devotion (I'm picturing a father's devotion to a child or an artist's devotion to her painting) might be a close opposite to Odium, Spite, and Hatred? 

I know not every shard had an opposite, but to me these seem clearly opposed. 

[Radiant Returned]

With every shard not having an opposite, I think it's wise to not assume two are opposites unless it's really clear. Devotion "could" mean to an offspring or something noble like that, but it could just as easily be devotion to a cause or a nation, which isn't always good. So it doesn't seem like a good opposite to Odium IMO which is pure hate. Honour is closer because it's a polar good, but the opposite to Odium to me would theoretically be Love or Compassion. So I agree with @goody153 that either Odium doesn't have an opposite or it hasn't shown up yet. 

[teknopathetic]

if we look at the Seons, which are splinters of Devotion, I think we can see that Devotion as a holder focused on the loving aspect of the term. Seons exist to help others grow and thrive; seons are embodiments of love. I admit devotion isn't always positive, but hatred isn't always negative either. 

I can't imagine something being more antithetical to Odium than the Seons of Sel. 

[Pathfinder]

12 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

if we look at the Seons, which are splinters of Devotion, I think we can see that Devotion as a holder focused on the loving aspect of the term. Seons exist to help others grow and thrive; seons are embodiments of love. I admit devotion isn't always positive, but hatred isn't always negative either. 

I can't imagine something being more antithetical to Odium than the Seons of Sel. 

As ye olde saying goes "the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference"

[Lazarus52980]

You have to admit, a shard of apathy WOULD be an amusing shard...

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

 "he bears gods indifference without the other attributes to make him do anything... So not much to worry about there."

[Rasarr]

 Well, there is one Shard that just wants to survive and be left alone... 

[goody153]

On 8/4/2016 at 8:32 PM, Lazarus52980 said:

You have to admit, a shard of apathy WOULD be an amusing shard...

Man whoever picked that shard must be pissed. Worst shard ever

[Turbonator]

On July 8, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Argent said:

Funny, I am inclined to distrust his judgment, at least sometimes. He feels like the kind of person who would hold a grudge for silly reasons. Reliable when it counts, but not necessarily otherwise.

So, this is my first post. Yay. Anyway, you might find this interesting.

INTERVIEW: Mar 6th, 2014

WoR Signing Report - Bartbug (Verbatim) 

QUESTION

What's your favorite original Shardholder?

BRANDON SANDERSON

I don't know... The tricky thing is that I'm going to have to write them as their personalities because right now they are just concepts. I'm very fond of Bavadin but I can't say.

TAGS

bavadin,

Source

[Ari]

On 26/07/2016 at 1:25 AM, goody153 said:

Makes sense though i don't feel like Honor is Odium's opposite. I don't think Odium opposite has showed up yet.

Devotion is pretty much directly opposite to Odium, as they're synonyms of Love and Hate. (there's WoBs on both of those iirc)

[Pathfinder]

5 hours ago, Ari said:

Devotion is pretty much directly opposite to Odium, as they're synonyms of Love and Hate. (there's WoBs on both of those iirc)

I still stand by the opposite of Odium is my shard of indifference, held by the vessel named "meh"

[Turbonator]

The cult of Apathy would be interesting... I wonder what sort of Investiture would manifest if Apathy Invested in a planet.

[Pathfinder]

3 minutes ago, Turbonator said:

The cult of Apathy would be interesting... I wonder what sort of Investiture would manifest if Apathy Invested in a planet.

Well the shard would either not invest at all (doesn't want to be bothered), or invest completely so it doesn't have to make any choices "here's all this power, now leave me alone." The planet would be made up of either humanoid snails or sloths. There abilities would be time travel. If they got into a situation they didn't like, they would either hop into the future, or hop into the past, so they could avoid ever dealing with it, and they wouldn't have to make any physical effort to get rid of it.  

[Turbonator]

Well, let's just say Apathy Invested right after the vessel received the Shard.

Anyway, maybe Odium, Devotion, and the fictitious Apathy could form a sort of triangle, in which each is the opposite of the others.

[Ari]

4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

I still stand by the opposite of Odium is my shard of indifference, held by the vessel named "meh"

If you want to view it that way, Apathy would be the opposite of every shard, lol.

[Turbonator]

4 minutes ago, Ari said:

If you want to view it that way, Apathy would be the opposite of every shard, lol.

Huh... Didn't think of that. Wait, what about Autonomy? I think it's possible to be both lazy/indifferent and independent at the same time. And maybe there could be some overlap with other Shards, too.

[ParadoxicalZen]

The Shard of Apathy - the foolproof way to mitigate any other Shard's motivation

[Turbonator]

Just imagine if Harmony got the Shard of Apathy/Indifference/Neutrality. He already has some difficulty doing anything, and this Intent would completely immobilize him.

[Ari]

4 hours ago, Turbonator said:

Huh... Didn't think of that. Wait, what about Autonomy? I think it's possible to be both lazy/indifferent and independent at the same time. And maybe there could be some overlap with other Shards, too.

Not really. Being apathetic is a lack of any emotion on a subject, essentially. So you can be apathetic about wanting to do things for yourself and not particularly care one way or another. All the Shards essentially have their own emotional or abstract themes, so an apathy shard would arguably be the opposite of any other Shard in the sense that odium has a Hatred level of 100%, but Apathy has one of 0%, so is a negation of Odium, or whatever other example you prefer. But that's not what's usually meant by an opposite in colloquial speech, that's merely a negation. Colloquially when we talk about opposites we mean opposing forces, like having a left and right wing of Parliament- forces that have different positive ideologies that end up at complete cross-purposes, like an individualist and a collectivist. A pure collectivist not only has 0% individualism, they also have 100% of an ideology that fundamentally opposes individualism, which from an individualist's point of view is much worse. There will also be other shards out there that fall at various points on that particular spectrum based on their own intents, so you might have multiple opposing forces but only one neat opposite, or even no neat opposite for some of them, like perhaps Endowment.

Devotion is absolutely Odium's opposite in that second sense. Not quite as cleanly as Ruin is to Preservation, but as close as you'd get for either of the two. But Honour is also at pretty cross purposes with Odium too, although in some small respects they might agree. (For instance, I imagine both of them would agree that you have to suffer that dude at work you hate. Honour because you agreed to a contract which involves him, Odium because he just wants you to nurse that grudge)

Edited August 10, 2016 by Ari

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

4 hours ago, Turbonator said:

Just imagine if Harmony got the Shard of Apathy/Indifference/Neutrality. He already has some difficulty doing anything, and this Intent would completely immobilize him.

Interesting sub-question... given Harmony's relative balance and inability to act due to the balance in his 2 Shard's intents... what 3rd shard would tip his ability/intents in a way favorable to the Cosmere while leaving him free to really utilize his power? Picking up Honor? Piecing together Devotion? 

[goody153]

9 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

Interesting sub-question... given Harmony's relative balance and inability to act due to the balance in his 2 Shard's intents... what 3rd shard would tip his ability/intents in a way favorable to the Cosmere while leaving him free to really utilize his power? Picking up Honor? Piecing together Devotion? 

Honor would probably fit him, he already acts like the caretaker for humanity. Devotion is gonna have a conflict with Ruin i suspect (though it can also be interpreted that you need change/end some things for the good of somebody). 

Him picking up Odium would probably turn him into some kind of weird version of Rashek like his TLR time.

Harmony + Endowment or Autonomy might be very VERY interesting.

Edited August 10, 2016 by goody153

[iohn]

I think honor would fit ruin/preservation well if the shardholder did not already have an honorable personality, but Sazed does, so it would be redundant. Harmony is still a young shardbearer, and still seems to retain a lot of his Sazed personality.

Edited August 10, 2016 by iohn

[Ari]

On 10/08/2016 at 9:47 PM, goody153 said:

Honor would probably fit him, he already acts like the caretaker for humanity. Devotion is gonna have a conflict with Ruin i suspect (though it can also be interpreted that you need change/end some things for the good of somebody). 

Him picking up Odium would probably turn him into some kind of weird version of Rashek like his TLR time.

Harmony + Endowment or Autonomy might be very VERY interesting.

The question of course is if Sazed is unable to act because two of his intents are in conflict, or if it's because he's pulled equally in both directions. Because if it's the earlier one, you want an Intent that aligns well with either Preservation (like Honour) or Ruin, (like Cultivation) but if it's the latter, you want something that's likely to diverge from both of them so that you always have the option of following one of the three Intents.

I expect it's the latter tbh, otherwise Adonalsium would have had some serious problems doing anything.

[1stBondsmith]

On 7/24/2016 at 10:05 AM, Radiant Returned said:

Also just an extra note, of the 7 shards we don't know yet, one "just wants to survive" (so almost certainly not with Odium), another isn't on a planet (could be with Odium but no evidence to say either way), and another unnamed one was already shattered by Odium. So really there are only 4 more Shards that we know absolutely nothing about. 

Hmmm... This just gave me a brain cannon. We have all assumed that the "Shard that isn't on a planet" is in the future spaceship of Mistborn, or even alone hiding on an asteroid, but what if he is on Taldain's Star. It answers a good deal of the investiture question as well as keeping the count open for more Intents. This might be the one we thought we knew nothing about. Very Sandersoneque to be very specific about not being on a planet.

Edited September 15, 2016 by 1stBondsmith
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