Long Game 23: The Siege of Luthadel

[phattemer]

Well, I for one am not going to stand idly by while a potential bandwagon trundles past. Amanuensis

 

[Mailliw73 he/him]

2 minutes ago, phattemer said:

Well, I for one am not going to stand idly by while a potential bandwagon trundles past. Amanuensis

 

There's also the PK or Joe wagon too. 

[Master Elodin]

11 minutes ago, phattemer said:

Well, I for one am not going to stand idly by while a potential bandwagon trundles past. Amanuensis

 

No! Bandwagon on PK! He's not in the same house as we are!

Edited June 29, 2016 by Master Elodin
Um. Ignore that.

[dowanx]

Zas it was just a poke vote for the fun of it and to see if you were paying attention

 

[phattemer]

45 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

No! Bandwagon on PK! He's not in the same house as we are!

I don't let little things like house loyalties influence my random decisions, thank you very much.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

2 minutes ago, phattemer said:

I don't let little things like house loyalties influence my random decisions, thank you very much.

Thus we behold the folly of House Cett. 

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

I think we are at significant risk of letting the spiked run away with this game. By not revealing lists, we leave it to each individual faction to identify spiked. This, though, carries the not insignificant disadvantage of having the group responsible for lynching having a significant vested interest against killing their own team members unless they are certain of guilt. We need the additional scrutiny.

The faction game is great fun, yes. But it will be immaterial when, in not very long, each of our factions are outnumbered by the spiked, who also have far more information than we do.

Consequently, I'm going to vote on Maill. Your views on this issue only benefit the spiked.

Edited July 1, 2016 by OrlokTsubodai

[Master Elodin]

23 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

I think we are at significant risk of letting the spiked run away with this game. By not revealing lists, we leave it to each individual faction to identify spiked. This, though, carries the not insignificant disadvantage of having the group responsible for lynching having a significant vested interest against killing their own team members unless they are certain of guilt. We need the additional scrutiny.

The faction game is great fun, yes. But it will be immaterial when, in not very long, each of our factions are outnumbered by the spiked, who also have far more information than we do.

Consequently, I'm going to vote on Maill. Your views on this issue only benefit the spiked.

No, Orlok, vote for PK! He's not in our house! Look, Orlok, Maill, Phatt and other members of our house, vote for PK! Stop trying foolishly to distance yourself from members of our faction and take the chance to kill someone not in our faction who's acting suspicious.

 

EDIT: Orlok, are you familiar with coupled transfer? I'll post an encrypted message, you encrypt it again, I unencrypt the double-encrypted message then you take off your encryption and read the message. We would use a one-time pad encryption.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Master Elodin

[Amanuensis he/him]

Well, let's try this again... storming internet.

Mailliw. Stink. Elodin.

For any of those who have seen the LG22 dead doc, you may have read an exchange that took place between Elbereth and Wilson regarding categorizing players. For those of you who have not yet seen it, I will go ahead and post the relevant paragraph in here. And don't worry, I've already made sure there is nothing spoilery in it.

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did come up with a bunch of different playstyle categories, though. Ten, actually. But I’m not so much thinking of them as surges as… I don’t know. Character stats from DnD, maybe. That kind of thing. Not sure about that... Just so they’re not mutually exclusive things, anyway.

Categories I got, though: Manipulators. Strategists. Info-gatherers (Kipper, Joe, and Maill are definitely the best examples here. Also Rae.). Accusers/Aggressives (Meta and Aman come to mind.). Liars (because that is a fairly clear distinction, interestingly enough. There are people who will lie through their teeth with ease. There are people who like telling the truth as much as possible even when they’re evil. Not too much middle ground. Along a similar line, there are Honorable vs. Betrayers, perhaps.). Troll (Because there are people who aren’t. Just… not all that many.). Clever. The others I’m less sure about: Confidence (you, Meta, Aman come to mind, but this somewhat overlaps with Accusers?), Note-takers, and my last one is Drifters/Lurkers - i.e. people who aren’t really these other categories, much. Just doing what other people say or voting every now and then but not a whole lot else.

Hmm. A possible alternate category could be Chaotics. Because there are at least three major ones around that I can think of (Maill, Stink, and Gamma.). Instead of Confidents or Note takers.

Huh. And this would actually work rather well in explaining reps. The more categories you’re in, and the higher you are in those categories, the higher your rep. Maybe.”

For this post I am going to address the playstyle category that Elbereth titled "Chaotics." In the quote above, she lists Mailliw, Stink and Gamma; all three of which I have absolutely no qualms with. They are examples of players who are typically hard to read and and hard to predict, while still making efforts to aid the village (when they have the relevant win con). What I do have a qualms with is villagers that, intentionally or unintentionally, cause chaos amongst their ranks. It is these “unhealthy” Chaotics, who do what they want when they want without considering the repercussions and make no genuine contributions to the progression of the game, that I am going refer to for the remainder of this post.

Disclaimer: This is by no means a personal attack on anyone. If you are mentioned or used as an example, I want you to know my intent is not to upset or insult you. I only wish to stop a minor problem before it grows into something worse.

In most games Chaotics tend to either be unremarked or ignored entirely for most of the game. They’re behavior is rarely addressed, and when it is it's rarely more than an exclamation of frustration. In any scenario where they are punished for it, it's not until after they do something that directly harms the village. At its very essence, this is being reactive rather than proactive, and I am a firm believer that if you want to get far in anything you do you need to be the latter.

Any decent parent will tell you that if you do not punish a child for doing something wrong, you might as well be teaching them that it’s right. Any modern court will tell you that knowing about a crime before it happens (or seeing it unfolding before you) and making no effort to stop while you have the ability to it is as good as being an accomplice. Aren’t we saying it’s okay for people to behave the way I described above, or even guilty of the problems it causes later down the line, by making no serious efforts to stop it? I firmly believe that this is exactly what we have been doing and argue that now is the time to put a stop to it, once and for all.

To relate why I think these Chaotics are dangerous to these games I will cite a pretty recent example. For those that might not remember or were not here when it happened, there was an incident in QF14 where Strawman was lynched and confirmed a villager. In that game, a lynch wasn’t a kill, it was an arrest; the player would not be able to talk in thread or use actions on free players, but could communicate in PM. Strawman claimed to several people in contact with him that he scanned a player as evil right before they died. Because it made absolutely no sense for a villager to lie about that, we believed him and spent the day turn lynching that player. Needless to say many people were upset when it was revealed Strawman lied at the start of the next turn. And when asked why he did what he did, do you know what happened? He disappeared, leaving the village in the dark and several steps behind where they should have been.

I do not know why Strawman did what he did. I also do not know if the Mods talked with him about it afterwards. But I do know is, besides posting that they were upset by the turn of events, no one really talked about why what he did was so wrong.

Eliminators thrive on chaos; due to how powerful it is, they’ll often do whatever they can to instigate it. Anyone who played one of the two games where I was a living, revealed eliminator knows how dangerous chaos can be for the village. And you know what’s better than a living, revealed eliminator causing chaos? A living villager causing chaos without their influence, and being left free to do it.

I am not saying that the Houses need to work together on everything. All I want is for each House to be organized effectively so they can catch the Spiked planted among them. I know for a fact that my House will have absolutely no issue finding and killing the Spiked among us. I also know for a fact that I am the least likely player, if not at the very bottom of the list, to be converted. If you want to know why I say that I can explain after, but since it isn’t really relevant to this post I won’t bother. What is important is that so long as I am still alive, I will do anything I can to make the Spiked’s job as hard as possible, and more importantly, convince other people to do the same. At this point in time, mitigating chaos is a huge part of that, but to do it I am going to need the help of everyone.

As many people before me have so obviously repeated, this is primarily a faction game. That is not all it is though, and if any House wants to have any chance of winning, everyone is going to have to all do their best to find the Spiked. Looking at it from both angles I want you to ask yourself who benefits from chaos? In my opinion only two types of people do. Those who are a part of causing that chaos, and those who know enough to render it irrelevant. Since I belong to neither of these categories, I suffer for it instead. And I’m certain that there are at least 19 other players in this game who do too, and who should also wish to see it end.

Without chaos, each House has the means to dismember each other. Encouraging chaos and standing idly by as it culminates might not harm us much at first, but in the end it will serve no one but the Spiked. And it needs to be stopped now.

I am a firm believer that just because most of you are my enemies, that doesn’t mean we can’t be civil. Yes, I’m actively going to kill you, just like you will me. But for the sake of us all, I am going to fight to establish some semblance of order in these threads.

Now, how does Elodin tie in to all of this? To answer that, take a look at what he’s said and done so far this game. He’s voted multiple times, each time without any genuine reason for why, and each time coupled with a joke. He’s openly claimed Coinshot explicitly to irk another player (lie or not, how is that anything but bad?). He’s posted propaganda (albeit cleverly done propaganda) against a player who so far has put the most visible effort into helping the village, claiming he’s done things that are “scummy” but never saying what those things are. And finally he’s generally propelled this notion that everyone needs to vote for players strictly on the fact that they aren’t part of their faction. How is any of this doing anything but hurt us?

I’m not saying every player needs to analyze others or come with epic strategies in every post. What I am saying is that in any of these games, elimination or faction based, it’s every villager’s responsibility to help now and then, even if it’s something as simple as making their thoughts and opinions known.

Even though I expected voting to go much like it has so far, I have to say that it bothers me how few people are actually taking this lynch seriously. I get it, you all want to use it to get your factions ahead in numbers and hopefully topple someone with a strong voice. But if that’s your intent then for the Love of Lady Vedel, just say that.

I, for one, am not going to vote for a player just because they are dangerous to my House, whether it be because of their analysis, strategic mind, or ability to sway people. I am going to vote for players who are dangerous to the village as a whole, whether I suspect them to be Spiked or if their actions give the Spiked power.

If any House is going to win the Spiked need to die, and that’s going to be much harder if we let this mayhem continue. If any House is going to win we need to use the lynch how it’s always been meant to be used; to gather information and kill eliminators. Save the posturing for your koloss, your kandra, your allomancers, and the many other resources provided for you strictly to do just that. If you’re going to vote, do it for a good reason, and don’t hide the reason why.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Amanuensis
I really need to proofread before I post, not after

[Mailliw73 he/him]

21 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

I think we are at significant risk of letting the spiked run away with this game. By not revealing lists, we leave it to each individual faction to identify spiked. This, though, carries the not insignificant disadvantage of having the group responsible for lynching having a significant vested interest against killing their own team members unless they are certain of guilt. We need the additional scrutiny.

The faction game is great fun, yes. But it will be immaterial when, in not very long, each of our factions are outnumbered by the spiked, who also have far more information than we do.

Consequently, I'm going to vote on Maill. Your views on this issue only benefit the spiked.

I'm not the only one of this opinion. I really don't know how faction lists help you find Spiked. Somehow, knowing whether I'm in Venture or Lekal or Penrod  or Cett informs you on whether or not I'm Spiked? How?

@Amanuensis I see your point. I tend to only cause Chaos that benefits me, if not my entire team. I shall rein in my Chaotic aspects this game though and stick more to the Manipulator/Strategist side. For that reason, Sart. I'll place my actual vote later. 

I still believe the Inquisitor and Spiked aren't much of a threat yet, though, we do need to look for them. If I have a good lead on them, I will vote for them. Until I do, I will vote for players that I have any doubts about or that will hurt my House if they remain alive.  

I had a thought, disturbing though it is. With 4 factions and 27 players, that leaves us at 3 factions of 6 and one of 7. Unless, the House with "7" players actually houses the Inquisitor. That would then even the playing field. Just a speculation I made. Do what you will with it. 

[Master Elodin]

23 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Well, let's try this again... storming internet.

Mailliw. Stink. Elodin.

For any of those who have seen the LG22 dead doc, you may have read an exchange that took place between Elbereth and Wilson regarding categorizing players. For those of you who have not yet seen it, I will go ahead and post the relevant paragraph in here. And don't worry, I've already made sure there is nothing spoilery in it.

For this post I am going to address the playstyle category that Elbereth titled "Chaotics." In the quote above, she lists Mailliw, Stink and Gamma; all three of which I have absolutely no qualms with. They are examples of players who are typically hard to read and and hard to predict, while still making efforts to aid the village (when they have the relevant win con). What I do have a qualms with is villagers that, intentionally or unintentionally, cause chaos amongst their ranks. It is these “unhealthy” Chaotics, who do what they want when they want without considering the repercussions and make no genuine contributions to the progression of the game, that I am going refer to for the remainder of this post.

Disclaimer: This is by no means a personal attack on anyone. If you are mentioned or used as an example, I want you to know my intent is not to upset or insult you. I only wish to stop a minor problem before it grows into something worse.

In most games Chaotics tend to either be unremarked or ignored entirely for most of the game. They’re behavior is rarely addressed, and when it is it's rarely more than an exclamation of frustration. In any scenario where they are punished for it, it's not until after they do something that directly harms the village. At its very essence, this is being reactive rather than proactive, and I am a firm believer that if you want to get far in anything you do you need to be the latter.

Any decent parent will tell you that if you do not punish a child for doing something wrong, you might as well be teaching them that it’s right. Any modern court will tell you that knowing about a crime before it happens (or seeing it unfolding before you) and making no effort to stop while you have the ability to it is as good as being an accomplice. Aren’t we saying it’s okay for people to behave the way I described above, or even guilty of the problems it causes later down the line, by making no serious efforts to stop it? I firmly believe that this is exactly what we have been doing and argue that now is the time to put a stop to it, once and for all.

To relate why I think these Chaotics are dangerous to these games I will cite a pretty recent example. For those that might not remember or were not here when it happened, there was an incident in QF14 where Strawman was lynched and confirmed a villager. In that game, a lynch wasn’t a kill, it was an arrest; the player would not be able to talk in thread or use actions on free players, but could communicate in PM. Strawman claimed to several people in contact with him that he scanned a player as evil right before they died. Because it made absolutely no sense for a villager to lie about that, we believed him and spent the day turn lynching that player. Needless to say many people were upset when it was revealed Strawman lied at the start of the next turn. And when asked why he did what he did, do you know what happened? He disappeared, leaving the village in the dark and several steps behind where they should have been.

I do not know why Strawman did what he did. I also do not know if the Mods talked with him about it afterwards. But I do know is, besides posting that they were upset by the turn of events, no one really talked about why what he did was so wrong.

Eliminators thrive on chaos; due to how powerful it is, they’ll often do whatever they can to instigate it. Anyone who played one of the two games where I was a living, revealed eliminator knows how dangerous chaos can be for the village. And you know what’s better than a living, revealed eliminator causing chaos? A living villager causing chaos without their influence, and being left free to do it.

I am not saying that the Houses need to work together on everything. All I want is for each House to be organized effectively so they can catch the Spiked seeded among them. I know for a fact that my House will have absolutely no issue finding and killing the Spiked among us. I also know for a fact that I am the least likely player, if not at the very bottom of the list, to be converted. If you want to know why I say that I can explain after, but since it isn’t really relevant to this post I won’t bother. What is important is that so long as I am still alive, I will do anything I can to make the Spiked’s job as hard as possible, and more importantly, convince other people to do the same. At this point in time, mitigating chaos is a huge part of that, but to do it I am going to need the help of everyone.

As many people before me have so obviously repeated, this is primarily a faction game. That is not all it is though, and if any House wants to have any chance of winning, everyone is going to have to all do their best to find the Spiked. Looking at it from both angles I want you to ask yourself who benefits from chaos? In my opinion only two types of people do. Those who are a part of causing that chaos, and those who know enough to render it irrelevant. Since I belong to neither of these categories, I suffer for it instead. And I’m certain that there are at least 19 other players in this game who do too, and who should also wish to see it end.

Without chaos, each House has the means to dismember each other. Encouraging chaos and standing idly by as it culminates might not harm us much at first, but in the end it will serve no one but the Spiked. And it needs to be stopped now.

I am a firm believer that just because most of you are my enemies, that doesn’t mean we can’t be civil. Yes, I’m actively going to kill you, just like you will me. But for the sake of us all, I am going to fight to establish some semblance of order in these threads.

Now, how does Elodin tie in to all of this? To answer that, take a look at what he’s said and done so far this game. He’s voted multiple times, each time without any genuine reason for why, and each time coupled with a joke. He’s openly claimed Coinshot explicitly to irk another player (lie or not, how is that anything but bad?). He’s posted propaganda (albeit cleverly done propaganda) against a player who so far has put the most visible effort into helping the village, claiming he’s done things that are “scummy” but never saying what those things are. And finally he’s generally propelled this notion that everyone needs to vote for players strictly on the fact that they aren’t part of their faction. How is any of this doing anything but hurt us?

I’m not saying every player needs to analyze others or come with epic strategies in every post. What I am saying is that in any of these games, elimination or faction based, it’s every villager’s responsibility to help now and then, even if it’s something as simple as making their thoughts and opinions known.

Even though I expected voting to go much like it has so far, I have to say that it bothers me how few people are actually taking this lynch seriously. I get it, you all want to use it to get your factions ahead in numbers and hopefully topple someone with a strong voice. But if that’s your intent then for the Love of Lady Vedel, just say that.

I, for one, am not going to vote for a player just because they are dangerous to my House, whether it be because of their analysis, strategic mind, or ability to sway people. I am going to vote for players who are dangerous to the village as a whole, whether I suspect them to be Spiked or if their actions give the Spiked power.

If any House is going to win the Spiked need to die, and that’s going to be much harder if we let this mayhem continue. If any House is going to win we need to use the lynch how it’s always been meant to be used; to gather information and kill eliminators. Save the posturing for your koloss, your kandra, your allomancers, and the many other resources provided for you strictly to do just that. If you’re going to vote, do it for a good reason, and don’t hide the reason why.

That's cute. You think my playstyle is Chaotic. And you know what? It's almost true. You see, I want my house to win. I also want the Inquisitors dead, but I am playing this as a faction game, not village vs. eliminators. Of course I will help destroy the Spiked, but we have no evidence on anyone. Why is that so hard for people to understand? If there's nothing eliminator-catching that has to do with the lynch then I'll use it to mess with all the other houses and the Spiked. It's a smart decision, if I want to win.

Edit: Ninja'd 

Second Edit: And you imply that I'm acting like a child? That disclaimer means nothing and honestly, Aman, I have never cared about your opinion and I never will. Your actions hold no sway over me unless they fit the rare case of aligning with common sense, my knowledge, facts and my wincon. You've got 1.5, maybe 2.5 or three. You're going to have to do better, kid.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Master Elodin

[Alvron he/him]

16 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

I had a thought, disturbing though it is. With 4 factions and 27 players, that leaves us at 3 factions of 6 and one of 7. Unless, the House with "7" players actually houses the Inquisitor. That would then even the playing field. Just a speculation I made. Do what you will with it. 

Actually it would be 3 teams of 7 and one team of 6.  But then I'm sure you already knew that and are trying to make us think you are in a faction of just 6 players.  I love faction mind games.

Anyway, vote tally for those interested:
Joe(3): Maill, Kipper, Nyali, Straw
Maill(2): Cloud, Aman, Orlok
Elodin(2): PK, Aman
Aman(2): Maill, Stink, Elodin, Phatt
Rae(0): Stink
Stink(1): Aman, Lopen
Sart(0): Rae, Maill
Zas(0): Dow
PK(3): Sart, Con, Elodin
Kipper(1): Jaime
Dow(1): Zas 

[Mailliw73 he/him]

4 minutes ago, Alvron said:

Actually it would be 3 teams of 7 and one team of 6.  But then I'm sure you already knew that and are trying to make us think you are in a faction of just 6 players.  I love faction mind games.

Anyway, vote tally for those interested:
Joe(3): Maill, Kipper, Nyali, Straw
Maill(2): Cloud, Aman, Orlok
Elodin(2): PK, Aman
Aman(2): Maill, Stink, Elodin, Phatt
Rae(0): Stink
Stink(1): Aman, Lopen
Sart(0): Rae, Maill
Zas(0): Dow
PK(3): Sart, Con, Elodin
Kipper(1): Jaime
Dow(1): Zas 

Right. I didn't just mess up the math of 6x4 as equaling 26 instead of 24. It was all mind games. 

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

15 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

That's cute. You think my playstyle is Chaotic. And you know what? It's almost true. You see, I want my house to win. I also want the Inquisitors dead, but I am playing this as a faction game, not village vs. eliminators. Of course I will help destroy the Spiked, but we have no evidence on anyone. Why is that so hard for people to understand? If there's nothing eliminator-catching that has to do with the lynch then I'll use it to mess with all the other houses and the Spiked. It's a smart decision, if I want to win.

Well, yeah, but the Spiked are still a massive threat. They stand a better chance of winning than any other faction if they're not specifically targeted. The inquisitor can just keep converting people until every single one of us still alive is spiked, and kill everyone else with the coinshots they've recruited. We need to root out the inquisitor as soon as possible, regardless of factional rivalries. I'm all for focusing on the inquisitor, and it's sort of frustrating that this is even the main topic of the discussion, but I do love how much people are posting. It's weird how active everyone is.

[Alvron he/him]

5 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

Right. I didn't just mess up the math of 6x4 as equaling 26 instead of 24. It was all mind games. 

I thought that was the case.  You crafty devil you.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Just now, Alvron said:

I thought that was the case.  You crafty devil you.

You got me.

[Amanuensis he/him]

1 hour ago, Mailliw73 said:

 

 

 

 

 

I had a thought, disturbing though it is. With 4 factions and 27 players, that leaves us at 3 factions of 6 and one of 7. Unless, the House with "7" players actually houses the Inquisitor. That would then even the playing field. Just a speculation I made. Do what you will with it. 

3 of 7, actually, and one of 6 (7, 14, 21, 27). I also wouldn't make any assumptions on whether or not the Inquisitor starting in a faction based around how many players they had; I don't see how the two correlate.

1 hour ago, Master Elodin said:

 

 

 

 

 

That's cute. You think my playstyle is Chaotic. And you know what? It's almost true. You see, I want my house to win. I also want the Inquisitors dead, but I am playing this as a faction game, not village vs. eliminators. Of course I will help destroy the Spiked, but we have no evidence on anyone. Why is that so hard for people to understand? If there's nothing eliminator-catching that has to do with the lynch then I'll use it to mess with all the other houses and the Spiked. It's a smart decision, if I want to win.

Did I ever express doubts about knowing what you're doing? No, I know exactly what you're doing, and what you're doing is just plain bad. "Messing with all the other houses and the Spiked" helps no one but the Spiked. Unless the Inquisitor holds off from converting a single member of every faction or doesn't have three spikes to spare, our docs are ALL going to be compromised by N3. Once that happens they are going to have all of the information anyway, so why would they even care what you have to say in thread? As for anyone in any other House, who's going to take anything you say or do seriously? Who honestly is going to pay severe attention to any nonsense anyone spouts to obviously troll people? The only thing worth paying attention to are where people place their votes at the end of the day. You're literally doing nothing helpful for your faction and harming every House at the same time by helping encourage this chaos.

You are doing exactly what the Spiked want, and it is very possible you yourself are Spiked. I've already laid down my reasoning, which so far is the closest thing to evidence presented by anyone so far. And you know what? If we kill you and it turns out you're a villager, three Houses benefit from your House losing a member and all Houses benefit from removing a villager intent on helping the Spiked. In my opinion lynching you is the best option right now.

Also, this whole lynching players strictly because they're a threat to your House, thing? I am passionately against this. Take a step back and honestly consider how that makes a player feel; to be killed for no other reason than being good. I don't know about any of you, but I don't join this games because I want to die. I join because I want to play. If you want to kill me or any other "reoccuring player" because there's genuine evidence against us, we've done something suspicious, or like Elodin here they're doing something that's hurting us all, then feel free. But lynching someone because they might find a way to outmaneuver you? How is that fun, let alone fair? How about your House puts your heads together to figure out a way to outmaneuver the players you're so scared of.

Look at it this way. If every faction actively kills "high threat players" what does that leave? No high threat players left to help find the Spiked. And if you're the one or two "high threat players" that survive that initial onslaught, guess what? The Spiked are just going to kill you, next.

If we do not all take this seriously we will all lose. If you want to win you cannot let this happen.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

Ah, by the way, I'll vote for PK.

[Arrae]

I’m beginning to wonder whether the person behind the 17th Shard account known as “Kipper” is the same person who left earlier this year to take an SE hiatus. This current “Kipper” is making posts that are more suited to insulting people in docs than a game of Sanderson Elimination.

When I suggested that we focus on the Spiked team first, Kipper smacked down my idea. He said he would not be revealing his any of his faction’s information, including the memberlist. He explained how keeping factional information secret is good for all of us. Then, even though it was Night, he placed a vote on me because I was supposed to be smarter than to suggest going for the Spiked first.

I agree completely with all the points that he brought up. This isn’t a standard elimination game. Making memberlists public will hurt more than help. I disagreed with how he implied that I wanted everybody to share factional information. In fact, I don’t see how catching the Spiked and keeping factional information secret are contradictory.

So, I asked Kipper.

He said the last part of his post wasn’t referring to me.

I asked him who he was referring to. The last paragraph included a vote on me, a chastisement of me, and an explanation that I wasn’t in his faction and should die.

He told me it didn’t matter and that I should go back to check his post. 

I understand that Kipper was not going to come back from his hiatus playing the exact way he did before. I understand that Kipper is still on the mod-queue, which makes playing SE difficult. I understand that Kipper sometimes enjoys prodding people to see their reaction (he once responded to a string of critiques for someone’s writing with one-liners just to troll me).

But that doesn’t explain Kipper’s recent, uncharacteristic non-responses.

Did a hungry and unskilled kandra discover his corpse sometime during his hiatus? Has he been hit very hard in the head by kitchen appliances while cooking? Or does he have an agenda that requires antagonizing me?

I am not Kipper, nor am I the person behind his account. I don’t know what is happening, but he does. And this time, I want a real response.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Arraenae
Grammar and clarifications

[Master Elodin]

7 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

3 of 7, actually, and one of 6 (7, 14, 21, 27). I also wouldn't make any assumptions on whether or not the Inquisitor starting in a faction based around how many players they had; I don't see how the two correlate.

Did I ever express doubts about knowing what you're doing? No, I know exactly what you're doing, and what you're doing is just plain bad. "Messing with all the other houses and the Spiked" helps no one but the Spiked. Unless the Inquisitor holds off from converting a single member of every faction or doesn't have three spikes to spare, our docs are ALL going to be compromised by N3. Once that happens they are going to have all of the information anyway, so why would they even care what you have to say in thread? As for anyone in any other House, who's going to take anything you say or do seriously? Who honestly is going to pay severe attention to any nonsense you spout to obviously troll people? The only thing worth paying attention to are where people place their votes at the end of the day. You're literally doing nothing helpful for your faction and harming every House at the same time by helping encourage this chaos.

You are doing exactly what the Spiked want, and it is very possible you yourself are Spiked. I've already laid down my reasoning, which so far is the closest thing to evidence presented by anyone so far. And you know what? If we kill you and it turns out you're a villager, three Houses benefit from your House losing a member and all Houses benefit from removing a villager intent on helping the Spiked. In my opinion lynching you is the best option right now.

Also, this whole lynching players strictly because they're a threat to your House, thing? I am passionately against this. Take a step back and honestly consider how that makes a player feel; to be killed for no other reason than being good. I don't know about any of you, but I don't join this games because I want to die. I join because I want to play. If you want to kill me or any other "reoccuring player" because there's genuine evidence against us, we've done something suspicious, or like Elodin here they're doing something that's hurting us all, then feel free. But lynching someone because they might find a way to outmaneuver you? How is that fun, let alone fair? How about your House puts your heads together to figure out a way to outmaneuver the players you're so scared of.

Look at it this way. If every faction actively kills "high threat players" what does that leave? No high threat players left to help find the Spiked. And if you're the one or two "high threat players" that survive that initial onslaught, guess what? The Spiked are just going to kill you, next.

If we do not all take this seriously we will all lose. If you want to win you cannot let this happen.

 

 

If I promise to take this more seriously will you stop pushing for my lynch?

[A Joe in the Bush]

3 hours ago, Nyali said:

Iicondition randomly note tconversionlf of the current eliminators were not eliminators last cycle. As in, there are now two. So, take impressions from last cycle as far as the Spiked do with a grain of atium. 

I still stand by my vote on Joe. Joe said his "metagoal" was to leave each house with only one person left in it before the game ended. That's literally the goal of the Spiked, which will likely include one person from each house by Day 3.

I prefer to play for fun. Usually, that means play to win, but in games where conversion is possible, i don't know what my ending win condituon will be, so i'm going to play to win through fun. I'm hunting the spiked, but also enemy houses.

Aman, i disagree with what you said about skilled players being killed. I'd quote you, but mobile quoting sucks. Anyway, i'd be over the moon if people considered me skilled enough to warrant lynching d1. Of course, i don't want to be lynched, so Sart

[Amanuensis he/him]

38 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

If I promise to take this more seriously will you stop pushing for my lynch?

Yes. I'm more so trying to make a point here, and you were just the best example at the time. I don't truly think you're the Inquisitor or Spiked. I just think you're trying to have fun (which is perfectly fine) but not considering the repercussions.

I just I want everyone to realize just how incredibly dangerous this chaos we've allowed to happen today is and hopefully put a stop to it. I want my House to take the lead as much as anyone else, but I don't think that using the lynch to do it is worth the fallout. We've got a cornucopia resources strictly dedicated towards the House War. I firmly believe we cannot afford to let the lynch become just another tool to gain advantage over our rivals. Doing so just makes the Spiked's job easier.

That being said, I have something genuine to bring up for us to discuss.

22 hours ago, Renegade said:

 

 

 

Also, 2 more clarifications:

• You will not be informed of which factions attacked your faction, or how many koloss they sent. You will just have to deduce this from your number of koloss after a night is over.
• The Inquisitor cannot Spike the same person more than once.

Empasis mine.

If Ren gave us this clarification that means that someone asked him. I highly suspect the person that asked him was the Inquisitor. If it was the Inquisitor then we can infer a lot of useful information. Unless the Inquisitor is Alvron, this question would be purely reactive, rather than proactive. I don't think I know any other player in this game who thinks that thoroughly / far ahead. This means that the Inquisitor Spiked someone who's role they did not know. I take this as confirmation that the Inquisitor Spiked someone in another House, rather than one in their own. This also means that the Inquisitor Spiked a player not for their ability, but what they could offer strategically, and did it with a less useful Spike. For them to ask this question means that the player who they Spiked had a role that matched another one of his Spikes, and that it was a strong enough role that they would consider converting one less player in order to empower that ability. I can only think of a handful of roles an Inquisitor would want to empower. In my opinion they are most likely a Lurcher or a Coinshot, as I could see no other role's flaring ability more powerful than another teammate / potential ability. 

So, in conclusion, I believe that one high threat player was Spiked last night, and it's a high threat player with a more powerful role, most likely Coinshot or Lurcher. It's also likely a high threat player that does not have a tendency to die early or make enemies. Given that every high threat player has at least 20 players who want them dead because of it, it wouldn't make sense to Spike one of them, unless the Inquisitor could ensure protection. Even then that would be a dangerous move because if that player's House doesn't have protection of their own they would quickly figure out he was Spiked.

If you have another interpretation of this, or think I'm onto something, please say so. Either way, I advise you scrutinize any player in your House that fits these criteria with a magnifying glass.

 

@Renegade, do earlier voted need to be edited into green in order for future votes to count? Or only be retracted in a new post?

Edited June 30, 2016 by Amanuensis
question for GM

[Renegade he/him]

Earlier votes do not have to be retracted in the first post for future votes to count, though I would prefer that.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Renegade

[Alvron he/him]

21 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

If Ren gave us this clarification that means that someone asked him. I highly suspect the person that asked him was the Inquisitor. If it was the Inquisitor then we can infer a lot of useful information. Unless the Inquisitor is Alvron, this question would be purely reactive, rather than proactive. I don't think I know any other player in this game who thinks that thoroughly / far ahead.

It was me that asked the question.  However I'm not the Inquisitor.  I asked it in the House Doc not that it really means anything.  I was curious if the Inquisitor could Spike the same person more than once as I was wondering if they could respike someone if they found a Coinshot after already converting them with a different ability.

I wasn't overly happy that Ren posted it in thread as I see information as a resource to be kept back until it's of use but hey, it happened.

[Amanuensis he/him]

21 minutes ago, Alvron said:

 

 

 

It was me that asked the question.  However I'm not the Inquisitor.  I asked it in the House Doc not that it really means anything.  I was curious if the Inquisitor could Spike the same person more than once as I was wondering if they could respike someone if they found a Coinshot after already converting them with a different ability.

I wasn't overly happy that Ren posted it in thread as I see information as a resource to be kept back until it's of use but hey, it happened.

Ah, Braize  Of course it was you that asked. I really thought that I was onto something there and I was excited to share it. Humph.

Also, since I just saw this edit while I was doing a vote tally for my team, I'll respond to it now.

1 hour ago, Master Elodin said:

 

 

Second Edit: And you imply that I'm acting like a child? That disclaimer means nothing and honestly, Aman, I have never cared about your opinion and I never will. Your actions hold no sway over me unless they fit the rare case of aligning with common sense, my knowledge, facts and my wincon. You've got 1.5, maybe 2.5 or three. You're going to have to do better, kid.

Where did I imply you were a child? I only talked about you in one paragraph of that post. It was all statements of facts, and I even said you did something clever. I don't understand why you would respond so defensively, as if I attacked the quality of character or badmouthed you in any way. I'm sad to hear that you don't care about my opinion. I think that's a pretty harsh thing to say, and not just because it's directed at me. As a human being in general, not caring about other people's opinions is what causes the most problems within and between societies. I'm not sure where you're going with those numbers, but I think referring to me as "kid" in the context of this post is a bit rude.

Either way, I'm sorry if I upset you. If you've calmed down enough to explain what I did exactly to trigger this response, I'd appreciate you did so I can make sure it doesn't happen again.

Anyway, vote tally.

(4? 3?) Paranoid King: Sart, Conquestor, Master Elodin? (Not sure if it counts because it’s in a spoiler), Mckeedee123,

(3) The Only Joe: Kipper, Nyali, Strawman

(2) Mailliw73: Cloudjumper, OrlokTsubodai,

(2) Kipper: Jaimeleecee, Arraenae,

(2) Master Elodin: Paranoid King, Amanuensis,

(1) Amanuensis: phattemer,

(1) Ada?: STINK,

(1) Stink: Lopen,

(1) Dowanx: Zas678,

(1) Sart: The Only Joe,

Edited June 30, 2016 by Amanuensis