Xaladin he/him Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 I am actually skeptical of the 5th heightening granting full immortality because of the heap "paradox." What is the minimum amount of Breath to reach the 5th heightening? Now remove one measly unhealthy Breath, or if that isn't good enough for you, imagin just one of those Breaths is slightly less healthy. By the definition of a minimum, you no longer have the 5th heightening and are now mortal but very healthy. It seems like there must then be an arbitrary asymptote for the 5th heightening. And it even says in-book that the heightenings are only a rough measuring stick (your life sense is better as the number of Breaths increases. It doesn't just start at the 4th heightening, etc.). I conclude that what the 5th heightening really is is a general amount of Investiture where we all just say "Oh, he is basically immortal at this point." 5th Heightening will not sustain you, for example, after 50000 years.
Oversleep Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 I am actually skeptical of the 5th heightening granting full immortality because of the heap "paradox." What is the minimum amount of Breath to reach the 5th heightening? Now remove one measly unhealthy Breath, or if that isn't good enough for you, imagin just one of those Breaths is slightly less healthy. By the definition of a minimum, you no longer have the 5th heightening and are now mortal but very healthy. It seems like there must then be an arbitrary asymptote for the 5th heightening. And it even says in-book that the heightenings are only a rough measuring stick (your life sense is better as the number of Breaths increases. It doesn't just start at the 4th heightening, etc.). I conclude that what the 5th heightening really is is a general amount of Investiture where we all just say "Oh, he is basically immortal at this point." 5th Heightening will not sustain you, for example, after 50000 years. It was stated that not each Breath is equal to another Breath, so Heightenings are indeed "more or less that amount". I know what you're saying, I wondered about this too: One Brath equals normal life span, more Breath extend the lifespan, 5th Heightening worth of Breath equals infinite lifespan. Even if we go with exponential growth, you can't just "reach" infinity. But I believe that 5th Heightening would in fact sustain you indefinitely long. We just don't know how it works.
Argel he/him Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 Tech in mistborn is improving quick enough that he'd only need to stave off damage long enough until organ transplants arrive. If cell degeneration still occurs, then at some point his cells won't be up for keeping him alive. One problem with transplants is that the spirit would know it's not its organ (just like that the body it alive after it should have died). In real life we have to use drugs, etc. to prevent the body from rejecting the transplanted organ.
tennischamp5 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) If cell degeneration still occurs, then at some point his cells won't be up for keeping him alive. One problem with transplants is that the spirit would know it's not its organ (just like that the body it alive after it should have died). In real life we have to use drugs, etc. to prevent the body from rejecting the transplanted organ. That's the million dollar question, isn't it? I'd assume if he's able to regenerate from his head being blown off, he's restoring or counter-acting some level of cellular aging mechanisms. Otherwise, every time he regenerated, he'd be cutting short his own future life expectancy. Then again, I think there was a WOB that said he still ages... so idk how/why that works then. A certain level of suspension of disbelief I suppose. It doesn't sound so far fetched that if Scadrial creates space travel that they wouldn't also have immunosuppressants. Though it raises an interesting question. If he is indeed just regenerating really really fast, does he have an elevated risk of cancer? Does cancer even exist in scadrial? They seem to have enough plaguing them as it is. Edited June 8, 2016 by tennischamp5
Yata he/him Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) @tennischamp5:Simply in the Cosmere the Healing works as "restoring my Cognitive Aspect" and the Cognitive Aspect is influenced in part by how you see yourself and in part by your Spiritual Aspect(A perfect version of yourself made by all the connections of your life). This is what I meant before as "your Soul knows how you are old"... You may do some little change... but your "blueprint" will be of the right age. It's quite useless to put it as biological process, where there is just "rewrite the part different by your Cognitive Aspect" Edited June 8, 2016 by Yata
natc Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 So really, is it likely that a certain degree of cellular degeneration due to aging is in reality what is considered "perfectly healthy" by a human soul of the associated age? That would seem to work. You can probably heal away organ failure or whatnot for a while, but eventually everything just straight up stops and you're doomed.
Yata he/him Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 So really, is it likely that a certain degree of cellular degeneration due to aging is in reality what is considered "perfectly healthy" by a human soul of the associated age? That would seem to work. You can probably heal away organ failure or whatnot for a while, but eventually everything just straight up stops and you're doomed. I can't be sure... I repeated just the explaination Brandon gived to us. I may think the Spiritual pushes on the Cognitive only after a threesold of "oddity" is reach... In the end it's exactly how the Forgery works. More something is unnatural more the Soul pushes aganist... and more Investiture is needed to resist 1
Voidus Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 I can't be sure... I repeated just the explaination Brandon gived to us. I may think the Spiritual pushes on the Cognitive only after a threesold of "oddity" is reach... In the end it's exactly how the Forgery works. More something is unnatural more the Soul pushes aganist... and more Investiture is needed to resist I'm inclined to think this is the answer, the more your cognitive ideal of yourself differs from what is recorded as the spiritual fact the less likely the healing is to work correctly. So Miles would probably have appeared to age a bit slower but at a certain point he'd snap back to the correct age if he tried to push it too far.
kroen Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 On the subject of Cosmere immortality, how is Hoid immortal?
Yata he/him Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) On the subject of Cosmere immortality, how is Hoid immortal? We don't know how Hoid is Immortal... We know his Spirit Web is something really messy but our knowledge is far to be enough to understand what Hoid is now (He start as Human, but now He may became something else) Edited June 10, 2016 by Yata
Pathfinder Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 I thought it was stated he jumps forward in time?
Yata he/him Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 I thought it was stated he jumps forward in time? He may jump in time, but it's also immortal of his own for reasons we don't know
Pathfinder Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 He may jump in time, but it's also immortal of his own for reasons we don't know Again I was given to understand his immortality was the type like gold feruchemists where he cannot be killed but he still does age which is why he jumps forward through time and somehow uses his feruchemy to know where he needs to be and when. But I could be wrong, or missing a WoB somewhere.
CaptainRyan he/him Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) Again I was given to understand his immortality was the type like gold feruchemists where he cannot be killed but he still does age which is why he jumps forward through time and somehow uses his feruchemy to know where he needs to be and when. But I could be wrong, or missing a WoB somewhere. Brandon states that Hoid is older that he should be in the sense that he time hops but that Hoid is also much older than he should be even counting the time hops. So, he has not lived all of the years since he was born due to the hops but he also has lived far more years than a human should even adjusting for the hops. edit: Relevant WoB: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=622#106 edit2: Thanks to "Green Hoodie Mistborn" from an older thread who posted the link - I just used the forum search "hoid hops" haha to find the link Edited June 10, 2016 by CaptainRyan
Yata he/him Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 Yeah Pathfinder, I remember the same sentence Captainryan reported. Maybe Hoid used the time manipulation to avoid centuries of waiting.
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