kroen Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Sure, he would age, but so what? There isn't a single case in recorded medical history of "death by old age". No, seriously, look it up. Old people always die from from some disease, injury, etc. (which are things Miles isn't susceptible to). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) In the end he would die by old age... the body became always less efficient to reproduce its cells... after X amount of time the body would not be able to produce functional cell. Of course this is the reason in the real world... in the Cosmere instead your Soul "knows" how you are old and it will force your physical to align with your age... you will expend tons of Healing just to avoid the cell to become inefficient and this will progressive growing (at the point that TLR can't simply tap tons of Healing to stay alive) In the end with endless Healing you will probably live longer than average.... 150 maybe 200 but in the end you will die. Edited June 5, 2016 by Yata 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted June 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) in the Cosmere instead your Soul "knows" how you are old and it will force your physical to align with your age... But there are many Cosmere worlds with magic systems that allow immortality... like Nalthis and being at the 5th hightening, or being an Elantrian on Sel... Edited June 5, 2016 by kroen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baby he/him Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Well, you can just heal using Gold. There's a limit to how many times a cell can divide, which is called the Hayflick limit. He'll hit it a lot later, but Gold Compounder is not synonymous to immortality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 But there are many Cosmere worlds with magic systems that allow immortality... like Nalthis and being at the 5th hightening, or being an Elantrian on Sel... Yes, but they work by stopping aging - Gold Compounder ages normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted June 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Yes, but they work by stopping aging - Gold Compounder ages normally. Yata said that the soul knows what age you are though... whatever that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 he/him Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 In the end he would die by old age... the body became always less efficient to reproduce its cells... after X amount of time the body would not be able to produce functional cell. Of course this is the reason in the real world... in the Cosmere instead your Soul "knows" how you are old and it will force your physical to align with your age... you will expend tons of Healing just to avoid the cell to become inefficient and this will progressive growing (at the point that TLR can't simply tap tons of Healing to stay alive) In the end with endless Healing you will probably live longer than average.... 150 maybe 200 but in the end you will die. It also depends on how you see yourself, so if he thought of himself as young he might live a good deal longer than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Yata said that the soul knows what age you are though... whatever that means. It also depends on how you see yourself, so if he thought of himself as young he might live a good deal longer than that The soul's age is stored in Spiritual Aspect. How you see yourself is Cognitive Aspect and while it might have some influence (we know it has in healing), it doesn't matter much. Becoming Elantrian or being on Fifth Heightening lets you live indefinitely long, so I suspect it works by messing with that Spiritual Age. On the other hand, atium Feruchemy doesn't affect Spiritual Age, so that's why even Fullborn cannot live forever (that is, using only their Compounding powers). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted June 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Maybe not forever, but constantly compounding atium+gold should give a couple thousand years at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashan’Elin he/him Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 The soul's age is stored in Spiritual Aspect. How you see yourself is Cognitive Aspect and while it might have some influence (we know it has in healing), it doesn't matter much. Becoming Elantrian or being on Fifth Heightening lets you live indefinitely long, so I suspect it works by messing with that Spiritual Age. On the other hand, atium Feruchemy doesn't affect Spiritual Age, so that's why even Fullborn cannot live forever (that is, using only their Compounding powers). Well, we have hints that a Fullborn who uses Temporal Connection along with Atium Compounding could live indefinitely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) But there are many Cosmere worlds with magic systems that allow immortality... like Nalthis and being at the 5th hightening, or being an Elantrian on Sel... To be honest the Breath Immortality is a Mystery to me for the reason I explained before. About be an Elantrian there are two possible explaination: - As Elantrian something change in the Spiritual and your Soul allow you to be immortal (you are not an Human anymore and the Soul isn't bonded to Human Standard) - The Dor provides the Investiture (like an Atium compound) to stay alive... with the time you develop something like Savantism and the amount of Dor your body recive became more and more... at the same time the Dor needed to stay alive grow. In advanced states the Dor became painful to yourself because overcome a safe amout... and this is why Elantrian's live is stressful (as brandon said). I can't be sure about ... but I think the second (the Dor Savant effect) is more probably. Like someone said there is methods to became Immortal but this methods often have more to do with changing Connection to Birthtime than healing the body Edited June 5, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Yata said that the soul knows what age you are though... whatever that means. yeah, and ferucchemical gold does not affect that. breath does. So does being an elantrian. that's just how those magic systems work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 Anyway probably ask how the Breath's passive abilities work is a wonderful question to ask. The Breath became part of Soul... therefore have a lot of Breath is equal to a great Soul's expansion. It's possible this may be oddly thing to your Spirit Web's Connections that in the end gift you with an infinite lifespan... but we need to go deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brgst13 Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 Well, you can just heal using Gold. There's a limit to how many times a cell can divide, which is called the Hayflick limit. He'll hit it a lot later, but Gold Compounder is not synonymous to immortality. This is assuming that telomerase is inactive when gold compounding is activated. Given the rate of cellular regeneration under gold compounding, it is more likely that telomerase is at least temporarily activated. Active telomeraxe is one of the required elements of immortalized cells. These cells are likely immortalized and their divisions controlled by the Cognitive aspect of Investiture. This Cognitive aspect is also likely for the aging of a gold compounder's appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong he/him Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 Yea, Brandon has said that one can still age naturally. It doesn't heal age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted June 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 Yea, Brandon has said that one can still age naturally. It doesn't heal age. I never claimed it did, only that, so far as we know, no one has ever actually died of old age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracnor he/him Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 To be honest the Breath Immortality is a Mystery to me for the reason I explained before. I see it as the consequence of resurection: you think yourself as a god, so as immortal, and with proofs that you are (eh, you came back from the dead!) so your Spiritual isn't inclined to make you age. But it seems far to easy, and you could answer that if it was the explenation, then why didn't it worked on TLR? Hum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) No Dracnor everyone with enough Breath became Immortal, not just a Returned... A Returned is immortal just because it reach the fifth Heightening with his Divine Breath. But the Immortality comes to everyone with the Fifth Heightening. And in the end how you see yourself... it's a Cognitive matter not Spiritual Edited June 6, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) I never claimed it did, only that, so far as we know, no one has ever actually died of old age. Well, we have WoB that indicate TLR and Miles would eventually die. So, it's either just a finite lifespan, or the magic they use does not halt the degenration of successive cell generations, which would eventually result in cells incapable of using/processing enough energy to continue living, which would then lead to organ failure due to lack of energy. That would imply actual immortality halts the degeneration of the cells (which in turn implies it is possible to die of old age). The reason no one is listed as dying from old age is because the immediate cause of death is listed. So if e.g. it's due to kidney failure, that will be listed, even if the aging is process is what lead to the kidney failure. That and aging is describing a process. We don't say someone has died from death either.... Edit: That is, death is the result of dying, but we would wouldn't list "dying" as the cause of death. Edited June 7, 2016 by Argel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagylpus he/him Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 I think a simple way that we can reconcile the fact that no one actually dies of old age, and that (by WoB) gold compounding does not grant immortality even though it can heal all of the things that old people actually die of, is this: I posit that gold healing gets less effective the older you are, requiring greater reserves to heal the same amount, while the body continues to degenerate from aging. So Miles would probably live quite a bit longer than a normal person, but eventually even through compounding he wouldn't be able to keep generating the massive reserves of health he would need to keep his body from failing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennischamp5 Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) To what extent does Gold actually heal? - If Miles has varicose veins or a necrotic toe, could he amputate the limb and regenerate it back to it's pre-disfigured state? - If Miles had a heart attack, could he rip out his heart and regenerate it to clear out the atherosclerotic plaque build up? - If Miles eventually gets Alzeimher's, could he tear out his brain and restore it to it's pre-atrophic state? Or is it all just tied to what he believes himself to be? If so, he would be immortal, even if he continues to age. Wouldn't he just eventually become an old man who can't die as long as keeps healing whatever buildup/problems that arise? Tech in mistborn is improving quick enough that he'd only need to stave off damage long enough until organ transplants arrive. Edited June 7, 2016 by tennischamp5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted June 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) I wonder how long TLR would have lived if he weren't killed. When he died he was over 1000 years old (I think) and didn't show signs of aging. Compounding atium+gold should give one quite the lifespan, I just wonder how much exactly. Question: If you're a Fullborn, would compounding atium+gold but instead of burning/flaring them you would instantly metabolize them using durallumin (and keep doing that as long as you live) would that expand your already long lifespan? Edited June 7, 2016 by kroen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 If you meant Durallumin instead of Electrum... He would simply die some second after... He would expend all his Youth (rememeber that he didn't need of Gold and he didn't use it for his routine) in some second (probably becoming an infant) and then without it he would die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted June 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) Yes, meant durallumin. Edited. And do we know for a fact TLR didn't constantly compound gold? because he would have to if he didn't want to die by surprise. Not to mention it should make you live longer (almost nothing compared to atium of course, but still not nothing). Edited June 7, 2016 by kroen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) He probably compound gold... but He didn't use it to live longer... He had no use for that... his body thanks to his Atiumind was in his best years.... Of course he may tap some amount of Healing always... but it's like Miles did, no effect on his lifespan. When his Atiumminds were pushed far from him... all his healing was nothing to him. Edited June 7, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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